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Hey jMac, I just want to ask you what you hope to achieve? I don't mind any of what you posted. Is any of it all supposed to be embarrassing? They're all public sites and they all have things you would've found just by searching up my username. Seriously, go look up Pandonetho and it'll do you just as much good. Well, with the exception of facebook but I guess knowing my university (which I've already declared many times here anyway) must be helpful too.
For now on if anyone pisses me off, I'm gonna track down their adress and order them a nice 200$ order from each pizza place in the area. Get em black listed ^^
Note this is currently rumour
Quote:
Nachtjäger, Suramar, 59 Night Elf Death Knight post 35821 in epic thread wrote
Got in touch with my ex-flatmate, whose sister works as a GM for Blizzard, to see what the internal buzz on this was. Apparently, at the moment the employees are largely as pissed as the players, and she stated that despite attempts to keep it hushed, it has become known that the big creative players within Blizzard are pretty much as unhappy about this as we are. Everybody has been told they are not free to comment on this situation outside of specially prepared statements.
It's still going ahead, however (and here's where in-house rumours and hearsay really start coming into play): from what they've picked up, the Blizzard leads have been told in no uncertain terms that the non-gameplay-related direction of the game is working to a different blueprint now. GC and company are free to play with shiny new talent trees all they like, for example, but for the first time the decisions regarding Battle.net implementation, Real ID, and plans for the general acquisition of new players for the business are no longer in Blizzard's own hands, and that's not going down too well.
What do I hope to achieve?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
That's and excellent question, Ken.
1. What do I hope to achieve in communicating with you, Ken?
Well, I'd like to acknowledge that your opinion about Real ID is completely relevant to you. That is, your opinion is relevant to you, and you alone. Accordingly, you (and your close associations, be they family, close friends, etc.) will bear the sole and full brunt of any information that you post online. As you stated, all of the information was completely public and willingly posted by yourself.
As your opinion applies to others, I'd like to demonstrate that you are hopelessly naive.
2. What do I hope to achieve by using you as an example for other people (since you were so forthcoming)?
I'd like to emphasize that disparate internet identities can be easily linked to more personal information through simple Google searches.
This happens when you inadvertently link disparate identities using screen names, real names, e-mail addresses, residential addresses, phone numbers etc. All it really takes is one or two slip ups and it's all been disclosed and linked - and it's all public.
Furthermore, people may not remember what they did yesterday, but the internet does. There is a permanence in the current embodiment of the internet. This means that you could have slipped up once yesterday... or it could have been ten years ago when you were younger and not quite as wise.
Finally, all of the methods that I've used have been strictly legal i.e. accessing information in the public domain. If I were bent on some other purpose, I might resort to other means that could give me access to even more of your personal information.
3. What would I like to achieve by sharing my own personal experience?
I happen to be friends with two girls who have been stalked (restraining orders, etc.).
Their only real means of protecting themselves online is being vigilant about what they post and how they conceal their identities. (There may be other methods that I'm completely unaware of that they haven't disclosed.)
An unsecured system (i.e. not even https://) that not only dictates to them but forces them to reveal their identities is a breach of their privacy. Obviously, their only option, in this instance, is to abstain completely from using that system.
However, if this becomes the gold standard for online interactions, then they are being discriminated against. This is a violation of social equity, and it is a breach of their privacy.
The educational system, for example, just doesn't post any child's photo, name, or artwork. The educational system requires the consent of the child's parent or guardian. Some people have reason to seek privacy and protect their identities. Who the hell are you (i.e. a third-party corporation that doesn't share their interests) to impose a one-size-fits-all full disclosure system upon them?
I can foresee class action lawsuits if this gets carried forward.
----------
PS. - If I really wanted to track you down, Ken, I wouldn't stop with your Facebook profile... chances are that I'd search for information on all of your family members to narrow my search... If I felt I had enough information about you, I might try to "phish" one of your login pages or e-mail accounts... or maybe resort to a "brute force" password hack on an insignificant, unsecured profile of yours, to crack your password (under the assumption that you're using 3 different passwords, MAX). After I'd obtained your password(s), I'd hack your e-mail and look for more personal information... maybe I'd find your address or invoices from your phone company or credit card statements. I'd start assembling the components of your identity, then I'd be ready to make my play. What I do next really depends on what my motives are... Maybe I'll just settle for selling your information to a third party... but maybe my intentions are more malicious and I want to arrange an unannounced meeting. You see where this is going don't you? But you don't care, right? You haven't suffered identity theft and can't foresee it's consequences. Moreover, you're a young male. You are in a demographic that isn't an explicitly vulnerable part of society. Furthermore, you've demonstrated an inability to empathize with anyone other than yourself.
I relinquish you to the school of hard knocks. Let me know how it goes.
I see I see. Well, I'm glad you kept this on an entirely civil manner, you do debate in a way that is persuasive, and I do admit now, that my previous posts have been naive (as I wasn't as internet aware as I thought). Anyway, thanks for the information then.
Although I do maintain my belief that if I went to the new forums using my real name and posted as normally as any other poster would on any other forum, I don't think I would really worry about it much anyway. I can't imagine random people attacking me for no reason unless I was a real jerk. Certainly, any determined person could find my information whether I posted my name or not yes? I can agree though that not everyone has equal chances of being targeted (such as females who are more likely to be harassed).
No way I would go to the forum at this time though, as this is in a time where every internet person is in outrage and I KNOW they'd be more than happy to do everything to me that they did to Bashiok. Maybe I'll give the new forums a shot and see how they go after everything has calmed down.
I'm really curious to specifically what Gifted has to say about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Me and Him have pretty much always trusted Blizzard, while remaining very critical of their decisions (Me moreso then him lol). But in the end, I still felt that Blizzard still had its customers interests at heart.
I realize that quotes pretty unsubstantiated, but honestly, that, plus a recent blue response on the WoW forums pretty much calling the 15,000 dissenters an acceptable loss to the forums, or weren't really going to leave, is where my trust ends. Sure, it could be totally wrong, but at this point, Blizzard has given us no evidence otherwise and months upon months of letdowns and omissions.
Trust goes only so far. I'm out :/. Guess I'll be joining your club Archer. Hope thers room.
So. Super curious wot Gifted thinks. Especially cuz hes pretty knowledgeable about the game Industry too.
First, I want to reconfirm what Archer is saying is rumor in the literal sense. I'm not saying it's a false or true one, so no matter what I say, please keep that in mind. In other words, I'm trying to restate exactly what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by newcomplex
My best response at this moment is exactly what I said before:
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showpost....3&postcount=59. [Edit: To explain that post, I have been VERY emotionally charged on the subject, and I try my best to approach things from a logical point to explore sides.. pros and cons are typically the things I find the most constructive angles to discuss, but not saying it's the best. I'll be blunt to say on the entire subject I'm VERY... MUCH.... *ahem* I don't like it... and those four words after the ahem is me being over-the-top polite. As in "taking out a matchlight with a fire hydrant" polite.]
I can tell you that I am definately talking to the people that I know, but all information that I've obtained is requested to be between us. This includes all the thoughts, ranging from praise to hatred.
The only thing I _CAN_ say to reassure you is that the one thing I know is that the people at Blizzard haven't taken a 180 degree turn with with their mentality. They still very much intentionally care about the customers expirience. However, at this point my best advice is to not join a club, speak your own thoughts on the matter/choices themselves and let them be heard, just as the majority of you always have.
Blizzard has constantly asked for feedback, negative or positive, as long as it's constructive. There is a time for rage to send up a "signal" and I'll think we all can agree that the signal has been flared and jammed in the eye sockets of anyone who is looking. Bashiok alone has proved that, poor guy.
Afk a bit, gotta take the kiddo to the bus.
Continuing in a second post in case people are replying to the first.
But since you are asking me my personal speculation based on what I have obtained from those I talk to, I'll reply for ya in the part I feel safe sharing about. The portion of [them being "helpless" on this decision] is what I feel a false rumor. If it has a semblance of truth, then I feel it's been exaggerated largely. This isn't me being "fanboi!" cause in many cases, the people who act in that nature don't have a lick of true knowledge from the people who matter. I'm not saying I have a LOT of that knowledge, but I can say I have an adequate amount that has lead me to this train of thought.
[EDIT: Information that I've gained gives me the impression that as in many cases before when something was "controversial" on battle.net as a whole, the community thinks short term where they think long term. In many of their previous issues they've approached, this has (begrudging for me to admit) very much the case. In this case I would suspect they think they're doing an honestly good thing, but this is different than simply a "game feature". Even facebook, which is BASED on the ideals of real identity, gives you a plethora of security options, even if they screw it over weekly by defaulting an intrusive, new feature to enabled. Hell, right now I know the phone numbers of everyone on my facebook list if they entered it on a FB game. That's poor management and they will fix it. I've learned that over time.
$#!7... I'm about to rant.. don't get me started, I have things to do today!!!]
Then again, just like I said in the beginning, I can't prove it true or false, so don't take my thoughts as a definite on the matter. You can approach it like all rumors, as if is right or wrong and just speculate from there.
Ok, I see where you're coming from Gifted. However, you yourself admit that what happened to Bashiok was "unfortunate". I think it to be more than that: it is potentially very dangerous for Bashiok to have pulled that stunt.
What does it prove from a logical perspective?
That having your identity public opens it up to being stolen and manipulated.
Jmac proved this with his arguments in his post in the most complete way possible. If Bashiok can be a victim, so can the many girls, minors and even hardcore gamers out there who will use this forum service. Abstinence of use of a service is usually a sign of a company whose customer service standards have fallen and the potential impact is a huge loss of customer base. Blizzard should really be careful about where they are treading...
Also, if (BIG ONE) the philosophy at Blizzard changes to reflect this change, then we have a really big problem. Battle.net is not Facebook. And it shouldn't be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac's post
Didn't even think about that. Minors giving out their true IDs online, rarely a good idea. And the random girls playing being stalked by sad netizens. There's been a lot of that on MMORPGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by protoswarrior
Not to mention transgendered people.
There is a major problem with comparing facebook to battle.net. With facebook they have a plethora of privacy settings which you can disable/enable to your comfortability. (Granted, they're doing their steps to screw it daily, but they add/fix it later) Battle.net may have this in the future, but has NOTHING LIKE IT right now. The best they have is essentially a block list, which only assists in resolving an issue, not preventing them. And yes, this supports your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by protoswarrior
Regarding the Bashiok thing, I personally feel it's much more than unfortunate, just consider that I have my personal censor on full blast to avoid ranting/raging.
BUT, I heard a good argument regarding that. Take the first/last name and state of any sports professional and you can do the same thing essentially. The only thing that's difference is the motivation to do so. I'm not saying I agree with the real.id, far from. But looking at it from the other side, that's a surprisingly acceptable counterpoint that I can respect regarding the finding of information. The only difference is that we're ordinary people, and it's natural for us to fear that our identity be stolen or abused. It doesn't change my personal view on the matter, but it's always good to hear a good example of the other side.
As I said before, I won't be posting in those forums the moment this kicks in, I'll stick to places where I have the OPTION of protecting myself or giving it away.
It should also be noted that people were harassing the wrong Mr. Whipple, a fact that "Bashiok" actually laughed at. Hilarious.
For those who dont know, rumor has it that Activision is the one forcing this on Blizzard and B.Net. It's hush hush but Blizzard leaders are pissed with all this.
This isn't the end of this.
Worst case? Blizzard leaves...and that would be very bad. For Activision
o.o.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centipede
Source please.
If you mean his post on the forums, I doubt he was laughing, the address and phone number were indeed incorrect. They were his moms.
Um... It should be noted that if this is true, it could very well be a LARGER problem than if they found the right guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centipede
Other than that. I have a unique nick (To a degree, some asshole has taken it on a mmo trade account site). Due to its uniqueness its pretty easy to find me...
jMac, wanna find my phone number? I want to see how hard/easy it is... just PM me it when you get it :)
I wonder what kind of stuff people could find about me, I am fairly diligent in keeping things separate.
Also, Equillari, I think they might need a name of some kind to find that kind of information (which is why realid on forums is a concern).
A little side story though:
One of the guys that works with my dad went to some bar while he was out of town, and some gang member pushed him around a bit and he resisted some. The people who were with that gang member kept talking trash and stuff. Then my dad's coworker came back home the next day and he got a phone call on his cell phone from the gang guy saying he wants to set up a time to settle things and that he had found all his information on the net after he got his name from the receipt from the bartender.
True, true, but in most cases you do not need a name to find that kind of information (Which is why RealID does not concern me as much as everybody else (not saying it don't)). The fact that I have a unique nick is hint large enough to find the real name, and from there its easy to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer
If a person really, really wants to get in contact; RealID makes it easier, yes. But it is still possible with only a nick.
hold on.
who said you have to oick your real name for your "RealID"
i suspect that you dont, (and obviosuly, given the circumstances, it'd be silly to do so)
... if chooice of name for our RealID's is open, all it will do is tie all your blizzard games to one name while posting. whats so bad about that? am i missing something?
http://eu.battle.net/realid/faq.htmlQuote:
What information about me will other players see when I use Real ID?
If you are using Real ID, your mutual Real ID friends, as well as their Real ID friends, will be able to see your first and last name (the name registered to the Battle.net account). You will also be able to see the first and last name of your Real ID friends and their Real ID friends. Your Battle.net account name (your email address) is not displayed to other players through the Real ID friends list. In addition, players with Real ID relationships will be able to view each other's online status, Rich Presence information, and Broadcast messages, and will be able to see which character and game their Real ID friends are playing across supported Blizzard games.
so if we all log in to our B.net account on the web-service and change the registered name, its all fine and dandy?
.. yeah, that does feel like something of a stretch, but still, it is a fix.
EDIT: we're not allowed to hcange our real names on the accounts, so unless they announce a change of plans pre-launch, anyone who wants to maintain privacy needs to register their SC2 copy to a sepparate account iwth a jibberish name. effectively undermining blizzards attempts to tie everyone together.
This is far from ideal for blizzard; they even have a system in place for handling online buy orders and stuff, that relies on the real names attached to our B.net accounts.
... with the planned system, they'll not only end up losing many constructive posters, but end up with posters with compromised privacy, or posters with "false" names that are unable to buy stuff from the online blizzard-store (may not seem like much but $ will be $) ..... so i expect a change of plans.
... if they dont announce a change of plans before release, they are seriously sinking their own boat with this.
The point was brought up that if you don't use your real name, and your account gets hacked, there's very little that you can do to prove it's actually your account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
X :cool:
The Terms of Service also require you to provide accurate information.
Emphasis mine.Quote:
Establishing an Account.
When creating or updating an Account on the Service, you are required to provide Blizzard with certain personal information such as your name, address, phone number, email address and, in some cases, payment information. An unused Authentication Key provided to you by Blizzard will be required when adding a Game license to an Account. A Game license must be added to an Account before you can play that Game online, where applicable. You agree that you will supply accurate and complete information to Blizzard when requested, and that you will update that information promptly after it changes.
so it will take some guts to post.. its a bit scary in that you might regret it later, if you end up dwelling on those forum conversations more than you'd willingly admit to anyone that might ever google you.
be that as it may, maybe the new system for liking others posts will provide a more anonymous way to contribute.
the BNet forums has always been a mess. this will surely make a much needed difference. but at what cost?
... the whole thing is scary, as it may sometimes become very tempting to actively contribute - and might be impossible to undo that later.
Which is a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
I mod some forums and people do request that their account sometimes be deleted, along with post history simply because they are afraid of what people might find out. Even if they dont really post anything wrong. This is behind a username too, not even with their real name.
I can imagine,. If I google some old nicknames I've used in the past, I can find posts I've made 7 years ago which are still in the google cache 0_o.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer
I personally do not post in Blizzard forums and usually find a way around technical issues on other forums like this or through searching google.
Still though, I believe this new decision has not been with their fan base close to hart.
I've read several websites about the issue and I must say reading that Blizzard want to sell our private information to third party companies really angers me, as confirmed by their privacy policy text.
If trolls are the biggest problem than there are other ways to deal with them. Have people link their real name with their username, but do not disclose it publically or sell it to other companies, that's totally wrong and illegal.
Hope Blizzard changes their mind about this, because it will only be their loss by aggravating their most loyal and core fanbase.
Then we can conclude that all this anti-troll idea is utterly-stupid, and it's a huge lie that it was implemented because of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
hahahaha he likes greendayQuote:
Originally Posted by Blazur
John Mayer too :rolleyes:
Care to discover anything else?
http://howtoviewprivatefacebookprofiles.com/
I've had numerous requests from SC:L members to do 'online background checks' on them in order to determine the extent of their identity leakage...
I doubt that I'll be doing more of these or posting them here for two reasons.
Firstly, now that I've advertised that I am searching thusly, if someone wanted to catch me at my own game, they could just set up an "IP sniffer" on some bogus site (prerequisite: indexed by Google) that they knew that only I would visit (by way of search). Now they would have a way to track me and next thing you know, someone gets to 'pwn' me by revealing more of my identity than I'm comfortable with.
My second reason is that I don't offer identity searches as a service. I don't do this for a living, and my interests and motivations were strictly in the interest of proving a point. However, I have gained some insight through doing these searches that I'd be happy to share with people. I'll post a crude algorithm for how you can do your own 'online background identity checks' below.
Crude Online Background Identity Check Algorithm
If you want to find out how much of your (or someone else's...) personal identity has been revealed through the information that you have posted on the internet, then follow these steps.
1. Search for a known identifier (e.g. screen name)
2. Cross-reference the search results for the known identifier with information that you already have about that individual to validate that you are on the right path
3. Find new potentially associated identifiers such as (in a ~order of likelihood):
-Screen name
-Other screen names posted e.g. Billy8314, Xbox Live, Steam, PSN, etc.
-Age
-Legal name
-Family members
-Friends on social networks e.g. Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, forums, etc.
-Address
-Memberships and associations, especially if unique
-Place of work
-Education facilities attended
-Phone number
-Account numbers e.g. phone, credit card, student number, health card, SIN, etc.
4. Execute searches on combinations of previously discovered identifiers to find new identifiers (see list above).
5. If you don't have either the individual's E-mail or Phone number, then repeat Step 1.
Otherwise, proceed to Step 6.
----Steps below this line are no longer considered acting within the public domain-----
6. Attempt to phish information from E-mail account or Phone number
7. Hack user passwords from unsecured Other screen name logins (e.g. Dictionary hack or Brute force hack)
8. Log in to E-mail account using hacked password(s). Gather new identifiers.
And there you have it. There are likely tons of other tools out there that make finding someone's identity much easier, but all of the steps above Step 6 can be achieved quickly and easily by strictly performing Google searches.
A Personal Revelation:
One interesting detail that I've come across through this enterprise of 'online background checks' is that it is often much easier to find critical details of one's identity through searches on an individual's screen names than it is if you are using just their real name as the starting point.
I suspect that this is because screen names are often unique and propagated across a wide range of host websites. Searching for real names, as you all know if you've ever 'Googled yourself', one must contend with numerous duplicates to find the individual in question.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...68987278&sid=1
Good job, Blizzard.
I applaud this. After so many accusations of Blizzard ignoring the fans, it is good to see them listen 100% and reverse their decision.
It is also good to see the gratitude of so many posters as well.
That is something important to note too. I am as grateful, and I thank Blizzard for making the right decision.
I think we all agree this is a good decision. Since the thread topic has been resolved, I'm going to close this thread, to keep from duplicate topics. All future discussion on the topic can be sent here:
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5487