Lan 100% Confirmed For Televised Korean Tournaments

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Originally Posted by SaharaDrac

I never said you couldnt go to LANs. Your LAN just needs the GOD DAMNED INTERNET, which if you aren't a caveman SHOULDNT BE A PROBLEM.

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You don't get it man. If you ever went to a big LAN party you would know.
I have been to one, but it was in a giant empty airport hangar with a bunch of long desks setout with powerbars. We had NO INTERNET OKAY.
MOST...Major local Lan events, I am willing to bet that they are just taking place in random rented places with nothing but power.
Yeah sure you got internet in your household, good for you! Does that mean all the LAN places have it? NO!!!!

EVEN (Like Lanageddon in my home town of Calgary) events like these in College Campuses that have internet, do you think everyone seriously wants to play over the net? No they want sexy ass pings of 10MS and the LAN feeling.
The problem is that the netcode for simple TCP/IP LAN play is mere peanuts, it wouldn't take much to modify the existing netcode to make it into LAN. Their BULLSHIT reasoning for LAN goes as : "Hay we want you guys to xperience B.net Two-Point-Oh like it wuz ment to be!"
But in reality, they just need some form of DRM circumvention to make "Upstairs" happy. Also it feels like their production budget is seriously tight or something. 4-5 Freaking years and they need more time to put in chat channels/Lan in a future patch? Give me a break, that's just them giving us the run around. But I am content, because I haven't gone to a LAN since high school.
But the point is , STILL!!! There's no freaking LAN!!!! Like Demo or someone said, it's like not having a CLOCK on your CellPhone. You just EXPECT it to be there.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eddon_2006.jpg

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Originally Posted by SaharaDrac

I never said you couldnt go to LANs. Your LAN just needs the GOD DAMNED INTERNET, which if you aren't a caveman SHOULDNT BE A PROBLEM.

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Blizzard cannot handle more then 15 connections from a single IP. Generally, the more connections you have, the most unstable battle.net becomes. If you want, i'll ignore latency, an "acceptable sacrifice".

If Blizzard could handle a large amount of connections from a single location with a reasonably stable connection most of the time, not even all, whatever. The issue is, it cannot.

In my opinion, Hyde, you are wrong. I'm willing to bet that >90% of every large scale LAN today has Internet connection.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

In my opinion, Hyde, you are wrong. I'm willing to bet that >90% of every large scale LAN today has Internet connection.

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Yup. This is true. But setting up a LAN event is a very technical and convoluted affair that requires a lot of technical planning. The current complications of b-net compound them to an unfeasible degree.

It isn't unreasonable to expect LAN parties to have internet in 2010. I'll admit, its a bit of a high expectation, but not ridiculous. It is after all,

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its not 1998.

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But it is unreasonable to expect them to go through the current hurdles of setting up a lan event through b-net 2.0 infrastructure, or to expect that players would be ok with the removal of the games ability to be played at a LAn event.

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Originally Posted by TychusFindlay

@SlickR: Once is fine. Twice is still okay. But, now you're getting into the border line ridiculous with how much you misunderstood the OP.

1) Battle.net IS free-to-play. You just have the extra option of not buying the retail product and just paying for the time you use. This is great for those who aren't sure if they want to make StarCraft a long term thing. Such a model is extremely effective in Asian countries. In fact, I'd be willing to bet they'd be outraged if this wasn't an option.

2) You do not have to pay for LAN. In fact, LAN is not an option for you. Therefore, you aren't paying 200$ for a feature that was invented 20 years ago for this simple reason.

Who doesn't read OPs? WHO?



This would only be relevant if adding this feature ramped up piracy among other countries and cost the manufacturer tons and tons of money. Blizzard was right in removing LAN. I'm glad they did. Obviously, LAN will be put into StarCraft 2 through emulating servers or offline hacks. Once we have that, we have nothing to have lost but Blizzard will have gained the right to enforce against piracy and spawned copies.

Quite simple. I'm soooo tried of repeating this :(



Or you could, you know, online game with other people in a room. Nothing's stopping you from doing this. The only difference between Battle.net and LAN is that you need an online connection. Latency and everything else is supposedly removed when the game no longer requires you to connect to Battle.net during the game.

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Why did Blizzard remove LAN than? Couldn't you just buy the game, authenticate it online and be free to play LAN? - They want to monetize simple features that were around for frickin 20 years so they suck your money.
For all I care, my budget isn't really huge and compared to the USA a low middle class worker gets 50k a year, here those people are considered rich in the low-high class and I'm not going to be throwing money if I can't get the stuff I want, that blizzard PROMISED and lied to us would be there.

And yes, having those paid-to-play subscriptions shows there is PAY_TO_PLAY subscriptions, its that easy. Its not like its not there and you can say they aren't doing it, THEY ARE DOING IT !!!!!!! What do you want more, do you want me to draw it for you?

As Dsquid said, its like cellphone not having clock, its stupid.

On another note, which I wrote previously, how can not having LAN be more piracy proof, instead of having LAN and giving people more initiative to BUY the game?

What stops people that want LAN pirating the game and using crack to have LAN abilities?
Blizzard said they want "bnet 2.0 more compelling than any pirated version, so that people actually want to buy the game, instead of punishing normal people who bought the game!
But they are doing just that, they are punishing the buyer of the game and removing features that the pirated version will have.

What stops some1 from creating a server in China and having people pirate the game and play there with LAN and more compelling than bnet 2.0.

@Gradius: So you say Blizzard didn't remove feature, because they didn't even put them in the first place. - That is even worse.
I'm speaking rhetorically when I say they removed, because it feels that way, that feature 12 years old won't make it.

What you just said shows that Blizzard is even more greedy by wanting to monetize everything that was free in bnet 1.

How can bnet 2.0 be worse than the decade old bnet 1 in this 21st century ?

You either have to be stupid not to add basic functionality or just greedy.

Its like some1 from nokia does not add audio tone in the cellphone which costs $500, because there is video now. Come on.

They needed to build on bnet 1, which means keep all the features from bnet 1, make them bigger, better, more robust and add ton of new features and not remove all features bnet 1 had and add money making facebook DEAL.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

A one, two a herp a derp?

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Hey follow up question. When you play SCBW do you play on BNET or ICCUP?

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Hey follow up question. When you play SCBW do you play on BNET or ICCUP?

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I don't play SCBW anymore, but when I played it, I played on BNet.
(Btw, the reason I said what I said previously, was because your post was next to impossible to understand.)

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Originally Posted by SlickR

Why did Blizzard remove LAN than? Couldn't you just buy the game, authenticate it online and be free to play LAN? - They want to monetize simple features that were around for frickin 20 years so they suck your money.

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To avoid pirates playing it multiplayer. They can add the feature if they want, but that's just it, they don't want that. And how does SC2 not having LAN cost you more money?

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Originally Posted by SlickR

For all I care, my budget isn't really huge and compared to the USA a low middle class worker gets 50k a year, here those people are considered rich in the low-high class and I'm not going to be throwing money if I can't get the stuff I want, that blizzard PROMISED and lied to us would be there.

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You forget that Blizzard has stated that when a game is in development _everything_ is subject to change. Blizzard didn't PROMISE you anything, and they don't have to, it's their game.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

And yes, having those paid-to-play subscriptions shows there is PAY_TO_PLAY subscriptions, its that easy. Its not like its not there and you can say they aren't doing it, THEY ARE DOING IT !!!!!!! What do you want more, do you want me to draw it for you?

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They have pay-to-play alternatives. It's not like they are forcing people to pay-to-play.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

As Dsquid said, its like cellphone not having clock, its stupid.

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Actually, it's more like a cell phone with 3G and/or WLAN not having blue tooth or IR.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

On another note, which I wrote previously, how can not having LAN be more piracy proof, instead of having LAN and giving people more initiative to BUY the game?

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Uhm.. This one is just silly. Even more people would buy the game if it had LAN, even more people would refrain from buying it, because they could simply pirate it and play it on hamachi or something similar.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

What stops people that want LAN pirating the game and using crack to have LAN abilities?
Blizzard said they want "bnet 2.0 more compelling than any pirated version, so that people actually want to buy the game, instead of punishing normal people who bought the game!
But they are doing just that, they are punishing the buyer of the game and removing features that the pirated version will have.

What stops some1 from creating a server in China and having people pirate the game and play there with LAN and more compelling than bnet 2.0.

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So if you're so certain that someone will hack SC2 and make some kind of LAN client, why are you even whining? Just wait for that hacked client of yours and be happy...

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Originally Posted by SlickR

@Gradius: So you say Blizzard didn't remove feature, because they didn't even put them in the first place. - That is even worse.
I'm speaking rhetorically when I say they removed, because it feels that way, that feature 12 years old won't make it.

What you just said shows that Blizzard is even more greedy by wanting to monetize everything that was free in bnet 1.

How can bnet 2.0 be worse than the decade old bnet 1 in this 21st century ?

You either have to be stupid not to add basic functionality or just greedy.

Its like some1 from nokia does not add audio tone in the cellphone which costs $500, because there is video now. Come on.

They needed to build on bnet 1, which means keep all the features from bnet 1, make them bigger, better, more robust and add ton of new features and not remove all features bnet 1 had and add money making facebook DEAL.

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I don't get all this "money making" bs. They don't charge anyone for more than the regular cost of the game. They're just making sure people who play their game actually pays for it. Which is entirely understandable, right?

You might feel like LAN is just basic functionality, but you don't see the wider scope of things. You got a serious cause of tunnel sight, SlickR.

As I understand it, The big point of removing LAN is NOT to stop the game from being pirated. It is to
1) stop the game from being 'pirated legally' like on ICCUP
2) help stop the game from used to make broadcasted tournaments without blizzard getting a cut, like Kespa.

(Note someone said the "Professional Edition" would be like $200. I'd suspect more like $2,000 and/or a % of the cut for Blizzard... after all don't they need to have a Blizzard Rep actually There.)

Its to provide Legal mechanisms to defeat things.
And that's what the Professional Edition is for.....
For personal Play.... play on BattleNet 2.0, or you are clearly playing illegally, because LAN isn't part of the game

For tournament/large group Play... either organize it on BattleNet 2.0 (something they do need to work on seriously) and play it in separate locations OR
if you must have everyone in the same spot...(as in a televised tournament/spectator event) then you have to Get a Professional Edition.


I really preferred the Spawn Copies of WC2 and SC, but they ditched that idea, because it didn't work for them.

1) In no way is ICCUP legal. Blizzard wants more control over their own game, but isn't that just reasonable?

2) You're basing those claims on what exactly?

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

In my opinion, Hyde, you are wrong. I'm willing to bet that >90% of every large scale LAN today has Internet connection.

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Still, indie lans don't really have that.




But hear me out...
A pirated copy of the Pro Edition or Hibatchi by-pass or simply someone just writting the net code for it will eventually come out.
They had "illegal" dedicated servers for Modern Warfare 2 the day it came out.
It doesn't take that much work. Battle.net already works on hosting the game on a Battle.Net "machine"
Hack it up and change that to a local host or input ip..etc..

So why the no LAN thing? The beta has already been pirated. It's been proven it can be pirated. Just more stupid shots being called from upper management.
They don't understand something, but their assistants tell them LAN will reduce piracy and increase overall profits. So they say "make it so" .
That's pretty much why we don't have LAN, there's no other reason not to have LAN.

EDIT: Wait I know. Developing LAN Costs money and they see it in no way to increase revenue and it would only increase piracy. Yeah, I would take this if this was Infinity Ward or EA. But this is Blizzard, I'm surprised they are cutting corners...

1) Internet authentications. HAHAHAH! That'd take three seconds to be worked around and would leave a lifetime of problems for Blizzard in enforcing their rights to royalties.
2) Your country being poor is irrelevant and is no excuse. If you or your country are too poor to pay for small things like a game then maybe you don't need to be playing games at all. Go work and get the money which you so desperately need. I don't believe for a minute though that you're that poor. So this point is irrelevant.
3) We've known about pay-to-play for a long, long, long, long time now. Stop worrying about something that's completely optional and is only there for certain parts of the world that prefer that model.
4) No, it's nothing like a clock on a phone for obvious reasons like the ones I've mentioned and have been said by others. LAN was removed to stop certain forms of piracy and royalty work arounds. A clock on a phone does not endanger the cell phone company of losing hundreds of thousands of dollars or perhaps millions. You keep looking only on the surface and getting upset over nothing when you should dig deeper and see why things are the way they are. It's the only logical way to go about it and will lead you to possessing a more valid and respectable opinion.
5) Piracy, in this case, means internet cafes, tournaments, and what not. Not just the average joe downloading the game. We're talking about preventing mass piracy in tournaments. Did you know for the original game, often times one single copy of the game was used for thousands of players in tournaments? They did this through spawned copies and LAN. If LAN and spawned copies are removed then Blizzard had the legal right to enforce them to buy the game legally. Simple. Blizzard's been getting monetarily raped for the last few year and now, when they want to get some of that back, you say they are monetizing :D
6) Stop spamming "DEY R MONETIZING!!!" like you're some dirt poor Communist. None of these things you've been complaining about have been monetized. I don't know where you're coming from with this.

@hyde: You are exactly right about LAN being put into StarCraft 2 no matter what. For this reason, Blizzard should remove it from the unmodified game so that they have the legal grounds to enforce their royalities while we, the gamers, can still enjoy our LAN. I wish people would understand this. I've repeated this so many times I'm starting to get a headache. You're completely wrong about them doing it to prevent piracy of the average joe though. Blizzard knows very well they can't stop the average joe. However, in order for a tournament to be legal (and they can't really broadcast it if it's not legal :D) it has to have all legal versions of the game and what not. Removing LAN ensures they get the money they deserve. Meanwhile, the general populace is uneffected because LAN was brought back in.

Look at it this way, which is better:

1) LAN being removed and perhaps not usable for, at the most, a few months. But, Blizzard gets millions in extra revenue for what they deserve and are owed by the Koreans for their mass piracy all of these years. This money is then put back into developing the things we love.
2) We get LAN from day one (a feature we'd have regardless). Blizzard gets screwed for a lifetime and they have less money to invest in the things we enjoy so much from them.

1: If it wasn't for piracy in the first place, SC would have not existed and Blizzard would have not existed!
Tell me, was your first play in SC1 on a legal or pirated copy?

2: Piracy is always part of the picture, developers have 2 paths: make the original game experience much more compelling so that people are inclined to buy the game or (blizzard way) remove every frickin feature that is so important that bnet 1 had, punish any potential legal buyer of the game and give pirates and undecided people more incentive to pirate the game!

3: Since Blizzard chose option 2, they also decided to monetize every aspect of it, including LAN with a stupid pro edition version. This shows they are greedy and money sucking vacuums.

4: Even though I don't like Kespa, without them (again) SC would not have been the e-sports game we all know now. So Kespa (paying or not paying royalties) did Blizzard a favor by popularizing the game and thus SC and BW selling more than 5 million copies in Korea !

5: LAN is an important part of a gaming culture, its the start of interactive experience, meeting people, and having fun. Even if 90% of purchasers don't use it, even if it actually "increased piracy" its small enough reason not to include LAN.
If SC2 is pirated, it will be pirated with or without LAN, so get over it and don't be fooled by corporate titans; you are eating out of their hands!

6: We all know where this is all going, don't we? We know what the music and movie industry is doing, they start small by adding this, that, DRM, AVR, pursuing lonely people, making up laws, pressuring whole countries to fight their fight and f**k*** us all, over their supposed "piracy damages"!!! - When in fact they are making billions of us!

Look at it this way:

You are being mind controlled by carefully thought out phrases, comments and info all designed to wash your brain, to accept everything they say and suck your money no matter what they do.

Next thing you might as well be paying $80 for a 2 hour campaign and bnet 3.0 with no features at all and you are going to be happy about it.

Now tell me everything I said isn't true ?

Here's a good analogy.

LAN is like a bunch of vuvuzelas. Its just not the same if everyone's not in sync from lag.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

1: If it wasn't for piracy in the first place, SC would have not existed and Blizzard would have not existed!
Tell me, was your first play in SC1 on a legal or pirated copy?

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What!? Please prove your claims.
And I've always played SC1 legally.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

2: Piracy is always part of the picture, developers have 2 paths: make the original game experience much more compelling so that people are inclined to buy the game or (blizzard way) remove every frickin feature that is so important that bnet 1 had, punish any potential legal buyer of the game and give pirates and undecided people more incentive to pirate the game!

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They will only be able to pirate parts of the game, like single player and single player custom games, watching replays and playing vs AI.
Multi player is out of bounds, for now.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

3: Since Blizzard chose option 2, they also decided to monetize every aspect of it, including LAN with a stupid pro edition version. This shows they are greedy and money sucking vacuums.

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How does this cost anyone (except tournament hosts) more money?

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Originally Posted by SlickR

4: Even though I don't like Kespa, without them (again) SC would not have been the e-sports game we all know now. So Kespa (paying or not paying royalties) did Blizzard a favor by popularizing the game and thus SC and BW selling more than 5 million copies in Korea !

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Fair enough, but without Blizzard where would Kespa be?

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Originally Posted by SlickR

5: LAN is an important part of a gaming culture, its the start of interactive experience, meeting people, and having fun. Even if 90% of purchasers don't use it, even if it actually "increased piracy" its small enough reason not to include LAN.
If SC2 is pirated, it will be pirated with or without LAN, so get over it and don't be fooled by corporate titans; you are eating out of their hands!

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LAN is a positive part of gaming culture. Piracy is a negative part of gaming culture. If they wanna get piracy to go, LAN has to go.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

6: We all know where this is all going, don't we? We know what the music and movie industry is doing, they start small by adding this, that, DRM, AVR, pursuing lonely people, making up laws, pressuring whole countries to fight their fight and f**k*** us all, over their supposed "piracy damages"!!! - When in fact they are making billions of us!

Look at it this way:

You are being mind controlled by carefully thought out phrases, comments and info all designed to wash your brain, to accept everything they say and suck your money no matter what they do.

Next thing you might as well be paying $80 for a 2 hour campaign and bnet 3.0 with no features at all and you are going to be happy about it.

Now tell me everything I said isn't true ?

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I'm controlling my own mind very much by myself, thank you. You are confusing Blizzard with Activision.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Here's a good lousy analogy.

LAN is like a bunch of vuvuzelas. Its just not the same if everyone's not in sync from lag.

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Fixed.

Honestly? Threads like this and the people posting in them make me not want to visit the forum. All I see is irrational bandwagoning saying, "Blizzard is charging for everything! Soon every unit you want to make ingame is going to cost REAL money instead of minerals!"

If you want to make a claim and an argument about something happening, use proper facts and make your case. It is unappealing and makes me want to hit you all in the face when you make these claims with no basis.

Everybody in here needs to get a brain of their own, look at the facts, and come up with their own point of view instead of getting sucked into groupthink.

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Originally Posted by TychusFindlay

Look at it this way, which is better:

1) LAN being removed and perhaps not usable for, at the most, a few months. But, Blizzard gets millions in extra revenue for what they deserve and are owed by the Koreans for their mass piracy all of these years. This money is then put back into developing the things we love.
2) We get LAN from day one (a feature we'd have regardless). Blizzard gets screwed for a lifetime and they have less money to invest in the things we enjoy so much from them.

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There are 3 kinds of people I can think of:

1. People who will buy the game regardless
2. People who will never buy the game; will pirate the game regardless
3. People who will Not Buy or Buy the game depending on reviews
3a. They will pirate the game first, review it themselves and decide after if they will buy
3b. They will read reviews first and decide if they will pirate or not
3c. They will read reviews first and decide if they want to get into SC2 or not altogether

For #2, Blizzard cant do anything about it. There will be no convincing them, Blizzard never "lost" any money from them.

For #3, lets say that there was a pirate version with LAN. How can the legit version with no LAN regain Blizzard money that "is then put back into developing the things we love."?

Well this is crappy... No LAN! I think this is a bit of a scam. Blizzard should allow LAN to the comsumer. I mean you already have to have an internet connection to install the game, thus they can track if you have a legal copy of the game. But what really annoys me is that Blizzard puts us all into the pot saying we are all the problem but only a few spoil it for the majority. And this whole piracy thing do you know where 85% of the piracy occurs? China, Russia, Germany, and Eastern Asia. But what did Blizzard do? Blizzard decided to keep the game at Teen rating or the equivalent in respected countries to promote their game, to allow it to be sold in such countries.

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Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer

Honestly? Threads like this and the people posting in them make me not want to visit the forum. All I see is irrational bandwagoning saying, "Blizzard is charging for everything! Soon every unit you want to make ingame is going to cost REAL money instead of minerals!"

If you want to make a claim and an argument about something happening, use proper facts and make your case. It is unappealing and makes me want to hit you all in the face when you make these claims with no basis.

Everybody in here needs to get a brain of their own, look at the facts, and come up with their own point of view instead of getting sucked into groupthink.

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Yeah! Free your mind! Be an individual.

And my individual self thinks this is all BS and we should have LAN.

I might be speaking out of turn here, but here is a thought:


From BW days, how many of you ACTUALLY used the LAN feature and how often?



I'm do not wish to take sides here, but I want to point out that the feature itself is useful for creating live tournament events either privately or publicly. What I don't think is relevant to most people buying SC2 is this feature.
Why?
Because that majority of people will not be hosting LAN parties every weekend (exaggeration here).

Is this relevant to you? If yes, then I commend you for asking for it, but what about the rest of you?


EDIT:

And, TRD makes a good point. There are a lot of people here who are just like "yeah, grab your pitchforks and torches me laddies!" without really understanding (?) or vocalizing their thoughts with reliability and at least some objectivity.

I believe everyone should calm down and take a deep breath.

colored for emphasis :D

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Yeah! Free your mind! Be an individual.

And my individual self thinks this is all BS and we should have LAN.

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It isnt about being an individual, its about having your own thought process instead of latching onto an idea. It is very possible for multiple people to have a similar reason to care about not having LAN, so long as you come up with your own argument and logical reasons for caring. Be honest about it too.

How many of you have the NEED of LAN? Why does battle.net 2.0 not fulfill that need? What would it need to do to fulfill that need? Having a professional LAN version for big events was one of the necessary things with SC2, since (as we saw) if bnet goes down for a big event its a big deal that cost money for all involved, even the players.

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Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer

How many of you have the NEED of LAN? Why does battle.net 2.0 not fulfill that need? What would it need to do to fulfill that need? Having a professional LAN version for big events was one of the necessary things with SC2, since (as we saw) if bnet goes down for a big event its a big deal that cost money for all involved, even the players.

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Maybe we should have a poll on who wants LAN and who does not.

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Originally Posted by mikill

Maybe we should have a poll on who wants LAN and who does not.

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I am sure everybody wants LAN, just to have it... but the question on if you need it or not. Remember, putting LAN in costs us nothing, but can cost Blizzard a decent chunk.

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Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer

I am sure everybody wants LAN, just to have it... but the question on if you need it or not. Remember, putting LAN in costs us nothing, but can cost Blizzard a decent chunk.

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Here is a big question. Say Starcraft 2 was cracked tomro. Its on a torrent all over the internet with LAN capability.


Now, given this hypothetical, should Blizzard include LAN?

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Here is a big question. Say Starcraft 2 was cracked tomro. Its on a torrent all over the internet with LAN capability.

Now, given this hypothetical, should Blizzard include LAN?

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Depends on what the pirates actually have in the game. If they hack it like they did SC1, you could play single player and custom games. You got stuck in this one weird 'you and no one else' chat room and could only play if someone else knew your name. Since in order to ladder you have to crack the game AND the BNET server this pirated LAN would not be a reason for Blizzard to include LAN.

I kind of get the feeling that the people who say that the game is going to be pirated anyway, like the pirates. And I wonder if the people are so up in arms about this because they wonder "why should we suffer for other people's stupidity?". There are tons of laws today that were developed because of other people's stupidity. Speed limits, yellow lines on roads, can not kill people, can not steal from people, the list goes on and on. If there were not stupid people that tried to cut as many legal corners as possible we would be able to self govern ourselves and will never have to worry about stuff like this. But there are people that do that stuff, so the people who just want the option to use something can not because some bastard used it to make an explosive device or some random thing. To me there are more important things that stupid people do that cause me to worry than LAN.

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Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer

How many of you have the NEED of LAN? Why does battle.net 2.0 not fulfill that need? What would it need to do to fulfill that need? Having a professional LAN version for big events was one of the necessary things with SC2, since (as we saw) if bnet goes down for a big event its a big deal that cost money for all involved, even the players.

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LAN support is needed by people who want to play the game in a LAN network with LAN latency. They don't have to be in an event. They don't have to be professional gamers.

People who want to play the game in a LAN network with LAN latency might very well be pirates. They might also not be pirates, and those players deserve LAN latency. Through pseudo-lan on Battle.net!

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

Through pseudo-lan on Battle.net!

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Except Blizzard has stated that they are not doing pseudo lan for Battle.net. They had said they would before but then they went back on that.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Except Blizzard has stated that they are not doing pseudo lan for Battle.net. They had said they would before but then they went back on that.

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And they might reconsider. They will, after all, release three versions of this game.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

And they might reconsider. They will, after all, release three versions of this game.

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They might start making cheap toasters instead of video games.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

They might start making cheap toasters instead of video games.

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And you might make a post that's worth reading.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

And you might make a post that's worth reading.

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Not likely.

Well, I can see why Bashiok said what he said about cross-region play having some hurdles to jump. There are so many different pricing options for all of these different regions. It sucks to see that RL economic BS is getting in the way of the "always connected" experience.

Anyway, I'm fine with the loss of LAN so long as my connection to Bnet2 is immaculate. If the servers were falling all over themselves in phase one while only a small percentage of people were online, then they got some serious work to do in making those servers stronger for millions of players.

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Originally Posted by don

For #2, Blizzard cant do anything about it. There will be no convincing them, Blizzard never "lost" any money from them.
For #3, lets say that there was a pirate version with LAN. How can the legit version with no LAN regain Blizzard money that "is then put back into developing the things we love."?

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ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!?!??! Like, seriously. Are you fucking kidding me. How many times do I have to repeat myself?????

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Originally Posted by TychusFindlay

Piracy, in this case, means internet cafes, tournaments, and what not. Not just the average joe downloading the game. We're talking about preventing mass piracy in tournaments. Did you know for the original game, often times one single copy of the game was used for thousands of players in tournaments? They did this through spawned copies and LAN. If LAN and spawned copies are removed then Blizzard had the legal right to enforce them to buy the game legally.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TychusFindlay

You're completely wrong about them doing it to prevent piracy of the average joe though. Blizzard knows very well they can't stop the average joe. However, in order for a tournament to be legal (and they can't really broadcast it if it's not legal ) it has to have all legal versions of the game and what not. Removing LAN ensures they get the money they deserve. Meanwhile, the general populace is uneffected because LAN was brought back in.

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@SlickR:
1) #1 is a joke. I won't respond to it.
2) Blizzard couldn't care less about the average joe pirating the game. There's not only nothing they can do about it but they know that's not where their money comes from. Their money comes from tournaments and other eSports endorsements. Removing LAN is a way to legally enforce royaties and legal versions. If LAN Is in the game, then Blizzard just goes back to being pirated out the ass.
3) OK. Now I'm thoroughly convinced you don't know what monetizing means. They haven't in any way monetized LAN. In fact, the pro edition is basically a license for pro gamers and is not an option for you. Blizzard has always sold licenses for large scale tournaments. They did this in the SCBW days. Why are you just now getting upset over Blizzard making money on their games? LAN is only a small part of this license. If they sold this edition to everyone and this was the only way to get LAN, then yes, they'd be monetizing. Until then, you're using the word wrong and not at all helping your cause.
4) That's a half truth. Either way, if Blizzard's not getting the money they deserve from from the transactions, then none of it matters. I doubt the Blizzard developers are just in this for the love. Whether not piracy actually helped them is moot (It didn't by the way, internet cafes did.) because Blizzard has already gained that popularity so there's no reason for them to take anymore unnecessary losses to this end and now it's time for them to finally get what they're owed. Besides that, plenty of organizations can replace KeSPA. There's nothing great about KeSPA. StarCraft being a great game and in right place at the right time had more to do with it's success than KeSPA.
5&6) This makes me weep for humanity. What is it with poor countries and your "PHEAR TEH CORPORATE TITANS!!!". You know, it's easy for you to not care about piracy in the music and movie industry when it's not YOU OR YOUR COUNTRY'S MONEY that's being stolen. To you, your country is maintaing the money it has at the expense of some faceless, far away nation that already has enough wealth. For us, it's losing hard-earned money that is being stolen from OUR talented artists and directors.

The rest is completely false and comes not from any tangible evidence but from desperation at the fact you know you're losing ground here. I've ripped Blizzard a new one over problems in the past. When I see a problem, I address it. Your complaints are based on misinterpretation (Is English your 1st?) and fear of capitalism. It appears now that what you hate is simply capitalism and not really Activision or Blizzard since all of your complaints are geared towards capitalism. And, to that I say, the proof is in the pudding :D

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TychusFindlay

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!?!??! Like, seriously. Are you fucking kidding me. How many times do I have to repeat myself?????


@SlickR:
1) #1 is a joke. I won't respond to it.
2) Blizzard couldn't care less about the average joe pirating the game. There's not only nothing they can do about it but they know that's not where their money comes from. Their money comes from tournaments and other eSports endorsements. Removing LAN is a way to legally enforce royaties and legal versions. If LAN Is in the game, then Blizzard just goes back to being pirated out the ass.
3) OK. Now I'm thoroughly convinced you don't know what monetizing means. They haven't in any way monetized LAN. In fact, the pro edition is basically a license for pro gamers and is not an option for you. Blizzard has always sold licenses for large scale tournaments. They did this in the SCBW days. Why are you just now getting upset over Blizzard making money on their games? LAN is only a small part of this license. If they sold this edition to everyone and this was the only way to get LAN, then yes, they'd be monetizing. Until then, you're using the word wrong and not at all helping your cause.
4) That's a half truth. Either way, if Blizzard's not getting the money they deserve from from the transactions, then none of it matters. I doubt the Blizzard developers are just in this for the love. Whether not piracy actually helped them is moot (It didn't by the way, internet cafes did.) because Blizzard has already gained that popularity so there's no reason for them to take anymore unnecessary losses to this end and now it's time for them to finally get what they're owed. Besides that, plenty of organizations can replace KeSPA. There's nothing great about KeSPA. StarCraft being a great game and in right place at the right time had more to do with it's success than KeSPA.
5&6) This makes me weep for humanity. What is it with poor countries and your "PHEAR TEH CORPORATE TITANS!!!". You know, it's easy for you to not care about piracy in the music and movie industry when it's not YOU OR YOUR COUNTRY'S MONEY that's being stolen. To you, your country is maintaing the money it has at the expense of some faceless, far away nation that already has enough wealth. For us, it's losing hard-earned money that is being stolen from OUR talented artists and directors.

The rest is completely false and comes not from any tangible evidence but from desperation at the fact you know you're losing ground here. I've ripped Blizzard a new one over problems in the past. When I see a problem, I address it. Your complaints are based on misinterpretation (Is English your 1st?) and fear of capitalism. It appears now that what you hate is simply capitalism and not really Activision or Blizzard since all of your complaints are geared towards capitalism. And, to that I say, the proof is in the pudding :D

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2: Why oh why than is Blizzard not allowing LAN for the average joe?
3: They can offer it for free if they aren't inclined to monetizing it!
4: I've seen SC1 being more successful the past 5 years, rather than when it was first launched. In fact most of those 15, 20 place finishes in sales were coming because people watched e-sports, visited a fansite and decided to buy it AND people who had it illegally decided to purchase it.
5&6: This makes me weep for your rationality. I don't have anything against the perfume companies, I don't have anything against beer and drinks companies, I don't have anything against internet provider companies, but than again they don't go after any and all who they consider damaging.
Coke would have probably been the biggest company if they went for everyone who in some way copied their drinks, from ordinary people to huge companies. I have nothing against capitalism, but rather all the companies that think they can suck people dry and get away with it and be the victims in the end.

China would never buy music from USA companies and their people won't getting prosecuted, but you US citizens are and will and ur companies controlling your president to put pressure to other countries.
You are not the most liked country in the world and if even politics bound to huge corporations you are not to get more likability !
BTW those corporations you are defending make billions of dollars and couple of thousands illegally downloaded songs does not brake their business!

If I could give you an infraction for stupidity, SlickR, I would. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

You are not the most liked country in the world

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Whhhhaatt!:eek:

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

If I could give you an infraction for stupidity, SlickR, I would. Seriously.

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I meant they aren't offering LAN for free, included in bnet 2 package, if they couldn't care less about the average joe piracy.
They can still license it to tournaments or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

If I could give you an infraction for stupidity, SlickR, I would. Seriously.

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Come up with another reason, then. This forum is, unfortunately, plagued by people who endlessly argue while ignoring the points their opponents make.

2&3) I've explained it to you with plain and simple English multiple times. There's nothing more I can do. I'll just have to wait until whatever is keeping you from understanding (language usage, anger clouding your judgment, hang-over, whatever) is removed.

4) Painfully obvious. I don't know how you could think I disagreed with you about most it. Piracy did not spread the game as much as you think. The other things did but not so much piracy. But, again, that's irrelevant. Blizzard has the popularity now and they need to get back the money that was stolen from them during this time. From this comment, I can tell what you hate is Blizzard pursuing what is owed to them. That's why you try to defend piracy.

5&6) Activision itself, which is the greediest gaming company there is behind Square-Enix, is no where near as bad as you make Blizzard out to be. Your posts are filled with hyperbole and misinterpretation. I'm no longer inclined to care about countering them.

As for China. Have you read about China's plans for economic growth? They have institued a policy of "reinvention" where they take American technology, change it just enough not to get sued, and then sell it and label it as their own. They're already in the process of trying to copy Intel's CPU designs and create some bootleg architecture. That's all China does. They copy genius and try to pawn it off as their own. Horrible example. China will never defend a foreign country's rights because the very copying of these ideas and technology is China's method for economic growth.

As for America not being liked, that's a recent thing. Bush was an idiotic president and drug America's name through the mud. The world actually does love America. They love American fashion, culture, ideas, products, and just about everything else. Why do you think Hollywood is so popular? Why is it that the artists we couldn't care less about cause riots in other countries? Justin Bieber whose been famous for about fifteen minutes and is one of our worst artists on the radio right now invokes riots in countries. Paris Hilton, famous for nothing, also invokes riots. Everyone loves American culture. However, when it comes to American policy, Europe hates us because it reminds them of how they used to be. Rememer he European expansion from the 1600's - 1800's? Remember how the enslaved 10 to 12 million people because they felt they were superior? Bitching at America for pursuing an attack on our nation is nothing compared to that.

Regardless, there's a lot of jealousy that goes into the hate too. The strongest country is any given era is always hated. I bet France wishes they colonized with the English instead of messing with Canada and you know Spain wishes they did too instead of going to South America and not capitalizing on the price revolution of the time.

Let me put it in a way you can understand: you know a country that was hated? Macedonia during the times of Alexander The Great. Alexander The Great was considered a barbaric tyrant that destroyed the progress of the Greeks. Looking back though, we know that's mostly not the case and he did great things for Greece. It will take time for the world to understand and respect what America has done for them. Look at America's influence (or should I say monopoly) on computer technology, space travel, economic ideas, political philosophy ... and well games, music, and movies.

I don't know how we got on this. All I'm saying is that you not caring about piracy is irrelevant because it has no effect on you. It's hypocritical to find fault in the record and movie industry in trying to enforce their rights. It's even worse to get mad at Blizzard to getting some of their money back that it is owed. If you were American and you knew how much money we lose because of piracy by foreigners who don't want to give money to American, then you would hate it to and strongly believe in what the companies were doing. Now, please, get back on topic and try to stick to the subject without resorting to more personal insults because you're out of arguments.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

BTW those corporations you are defending make billions of dollars and couple of thousands illegally downloaded songs does not brake their business!

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This is completely asinine. Just because a company is successful does not make it okay for them to be stolen. This is the view that so many people in other countries have and it's so frutrating. "Oh, those American companies are already so rich. We must steal from them because they can afford to lose and we can't."

If money is owed, money is owed. Just because I'm successful does not mean money is no longer owed. If that were the case, why not just start bootlegging everything from a company once they reach a certain point and never allow any company to continue to grow and progress the industry they are in. That's why there's so much less progress in other parts of the world. I can't wait until these countries start trying to sell things and they get pirated. I wonder how they'll feel then :D

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Originally Posted by Kimera757

Come up with another reason, then. This forum is, unfortunately, plagued by people who endlessly argue while ignoring the points their opponents make.

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Given that his post came after SlickR's "America is not have more likabilitiy!!!" I'd say he was referring to his off-topic and idiotic tangent as the infraction worthy.

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Originally Posted by SlickR

I meant they aren't offering LAN for free, included in bnet 2 package, if they couldn't care less about the average joe piracy.
They can still license it to tournaments or whatever.

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Including LAN in the standard package removes Blizzard's right to enforce royalities and legal versions. That's what I'm trying to tell you. If every standard copy can LAN, then Blizzard has no legal right to then enforce against royalty work arounds. They'd be back to square one and taking it up the ass just like they did with SCBW.

It is illegal to tell one group of people that they can use a portion of the game while another can't. When you buy the game, you agree to the EULA. The EULA cannot be changed in this way. Clearly, you don't understand business law and that's why you are confused.

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I'll say it again: when it really comes down to it, we are a month from the release, and in that short time it will be your decision whether this game is worth paying 60 dollars for. So nobody is going to care if anybody complained on whatever forum about the lack of features which will probably be addressed later anyway, least of all Blizzard. I don't even know why people like Tychus or Dauntless are trying to convince anybody. Anyway, continue. :)