i think some of you saw daily 135 where day nine presents the marine+ghost build against protoss
what do you think about this strategy?
shall we see this more from now?
edit: here is the link
http://blip.tv/file/3752216
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i think some of you saw daily 135 where day nine presents the marine+ghost build against protoss
what do you think about this strategy?
shall we see this more from now?
edit: here is the link
http://blip.tv/file/3752216
I think its a viable build. Considering EMP dishes out 100 damage to shields, having a ghost in any army composition is a good thing. From all the replays I have seen, Ghost are really under-used. Its a shame really because having a unit that can deal an instant "100 damage" more than once can instantly turn the battle to your favor.
Also they can cloak...and call down nukes! What much more do you want?! They are expensive but well worth the resources imo.
Ghost are pretty good against zerg as well.
I actually experienced this build (well, similar... he used vikings instead of medivacs, which worked great for him since I went colossus) long before the daily, or even marines being used at all. This was back in like early-ish may. I lost, but it is an interesting game. Replay is attached.
Marine + ghost is frightening as protoss =\
Sahara did a version of this where he gets an early Raven (nullifies my stalkers completely) and gets Tanks. I got rolled like 3 games in a row.
Ah yes, jinro's mech. Another difficult strategy to beat as protoss if only for the fact that he can slowly creep out of his base similar to the age old tank pushes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
My only concern with this build is it is very light and charging zeals may be an issue. But it seems pretty neat and inventive. It is not the be all end all build order but the stacking of the marines is lethal in compact spaces and with the shield and medivacs and stim. Very cool build. But against mass zeals with sents to force field and break up the army it would be very weak.
Sentries can actually be a liability against the build since ghost emp also takes out all energy and has a longer range than force field. Only way to not get hit with emp is to have all your sentries seperated and hope that a few of them survive. Or you could just pop in with a phoenix and graviton beam the ghost and THEN move in with your sentries and zealots. At that point it does not matter what the marines focus on you win. If the marines focus on the phoenix first you have the few seconds to rush up with your chargelots and hit them in their face. If they just focus on the zealots then you do not have to worry about emp for 10 seconds of game time. If they emp your phoenix to begin with, oh well, at least they did not emp your sentries.
100 Damage? Just how many protoss units actually have 100 shields?Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnUcrazy
Ghosts completely suck against Zealots.
Energy drain is much more useful than shield drain.
Ghosts are very good against Sentries.
Ghost VS High Templars = sniper wars, and either side can win (depends on vision)
1 ghost can emp an entire army it is an AOE not a single target I think that is critical when you analyze this build. One ghost ends up taking out 1 k of shields. It becomes a bigger deal.
Ghosts take away 50% of a sentry and stalkers life, and a good chunk of a zealots life. It may not be 100 damage to a single unit, but using 1 EMP to hit a cluster of 6 units can make the fight an easy easy win for the T (even moreso if you hit a bunch of sentries, preventing gshield AND force field AND giving them the equivalent health of a worker).
And it is not OP it is all terran has against late game toss.
I'm just glad Zerg have Banelings :p.
As for Protoss...hmmm! I'm not sure what an ez-fix solution would be! I gotta say that Brat-ok's games made this build look convincingly powerful.
I don't think Chargelots would help, and I get the feeling that trying to rush for either Colossi or High Templar will leave you too vulnerable to a straight attack, even without Stim.
And because of that delayed Reaper, the Terran will know if you're trying to rush for either of your AoE units. It just looks incredibly solid.
I don't play Terran or Protoss so I can't really comment, though ^_^.
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Feedback and observers! It will all come down to who microes the best :P (the biggest problem is that you have to kill all ghost's, and you have to have energy over for psi-storm)
Or, just macro toe-to-toe and don't overcommt (kinda like in PvP), then use a transition into something like Colossus to gradually change your unit mix to counter the supplementary counter-units he produces.
You can go for Colossi after getting your first few zealot/stalker/sentry and expo to your nat and defend. Defensive FF positioning will be key in allowing your Colossus to pop out. It is a very micro-intensive way to play PvT, but it is not invulnerable. If you stick to Gate units it's either super-risky with EMP nullifying HTs and sentries, or completely weak if you only concentrate on a 4-gate zeal/stalker and a few sentries build.
You need a higher tier unit to beat that. Don't forget that because of the ghost and ghost acad, you have a fair chance to get Colossus tech. Deny scouting with key positioning of stalkers, or even better on certain map, just hid a robo and robo bay somewhere and get the Colossi to join up with your main force to engage or push back T.
EMP affects Colossi to a lesser extent because of the high HP they have. It is important to micro them so that they arent focussed down and using sentries and zealots to block off access to the Colossi while having stalkers do some softening up and Colossi attacking and moving back constantly.
I have played against a T before on Blistering sands who went this opener and my Colossus popped out about the same time his 1st ghost, 1 marauder and marine army reached my front door. With some micro I pushed him back and managed to amass enough gate units to push out.
Then, I took my nat and separated my army into 2 flanks and a main portion. His EMPs were that much less effective and because as the battles progressed, he had to get something else to support his army vs Colossus, I just switched to stalkers/blink and Colossi with range. EMP's were mostly ineffective by then as he made like 6 vikings and only had enough for 1-2 ghosts at a time. My blink stalkers easily dispatched vikings while I pulled the Colossi away and I used 1-2 sentries for GS that he EMP'ed shortly after, but that 2-3 seconds of GS were enough to greatly reduce damage vs the Colossi and stalkers. He tried switching to tanks, but I had done too much damage to him already, by sniping expos whenever I could.
The key is to get the Colossus tech and transition at the right moment. I played another T 2 games after that who did a similar build and I lost because I rushed to expo and got Colossi late.
I like this kind of build from T that makes it more interesting than just marauder/rine which with good macro is sooo easy to beat now.
This is an awesome strat vs protoss. I think ghosts are going to see a lot of use in the future against both Zerg and Protoss. They're real expensive but can be so helpful against casters and protoss shields.
I think this is more of an early game strat though. If you don't win with the first push, it may be better to transition into some beefier tech units or air units depending on how your opponent is playing.
Ghost are very good since they have the emp which not only reduces the energy but takes off 100 of the shield, and if you cloak them there very good against probes.
A key point here is upgrades. A fast +1/+1 (or even +2/+1) would make for an amazing push before he gets too many collossi/HT.
It just seems a bit all in-ish. If the P scouts it he can turtle and go double robo or something... which would probably annihilate this build. The terran needs some sort of a transition into tanks (which is kinda standard) or vikings if the P gets collossi. If it's the latter, the it could turn into an interesting micro game.
If it's HT vs ghosts... meh, and the terran army will probably be at a disadvantage unless he gets lucky.