Legalizing Marijuana

Let's get some politics into this forum!

What do you guys think?
Is it good, is it bad?
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In WA State, where I live, there is a voter initiative to legalize marijuana, initiative 1068 run by Sensible Washington a group of volunteers w/o big funding. However, it looks like it has a 50/50 shot to make the ballot!

Similar efforts are going on in Oregon and in California it already has made the ballot.

Now that it's only a matter of when, even if all of these initiatives somehow fail.


I personally am welcoming legalization in open arms! :D

In a time of austerity let's cut the spending of throwing people in jail, destroying the live of our fellow citizens with criminal records, start a new industry, open up hemp farming (very important, not talked about enough), tax and regulate. In WA alone the removal of jail costs is estimated to save 300 million a year. That is huge.

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Originally Posted by Hamshank

What do you guys think?
Is it good, is it bad?
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I personally am welcoming legalization in open arms! :D

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I think it's good as long as it's done appropriately.
=>Same age limit for purchase as alcohool, strictly regulated, taxed, etc... And a lot of the cash influx should go into awareness campaigns.

I think some of your arguments are silly though.

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cut the spending of throwing people in jail

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If people think something shouldn't be outlawed, they should take it up in court, not just bend the rules. It costs money to send people in jail, but the law must be upheld.

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removal of jail costs is estimated to save 300 million a year

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Same argument, but most of these jail incarcerations are for drug dealers anyways. They won't stop their illegal activities because they've lost their niche. They'll just find something else.

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start a new industry, open up hemp farming (very important, not talked about enough), tax and regulate

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Yes, but again people need to be aware. Don't let this turn into the tobacco industry all over again, because that's a huge failure from the government.


I probably won't smoke anyways, but I think people should have the choice.

Do it!

I'm a Canadian from British Columbia, I think my stance on this is obvious.
Jokes aside I would like to see it fully legalized for medical purposes, for recreational uses I could care less since people are going to do it anyways and around here you only geet nailed if your a dealer.

I say it's ok but with one little caveat.

The sale of Marijuana plants and derivatives should be regulated by the states and taxed up the wazoo, just like Tobacco.

That crap is bad for you.

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Originally Posted by //MavericK\\

That crap is bad for you.

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Please explain, I have yet to see evidence of this

I agree it should be legalized but with restrictions. If its confined only to medical purposes and through businesses like regulated "cafes" rather than having it everywhere. I do believe the war on drugs is a waste of time, and is ruining lives at the same time. Why waste time and effort of bringing a swat team to raid a guy that has "some" marijuana. (Link - Warning, it can be a little...disturbing...)

There are only two reasons marijuana is illegal.

1. Marijuana is illegal yet cigarettes are sold everywhere is because its much easier for people to farm their own weed than make their own cancer sticks, and thus its harder to gain tax revenue from the mary jane. If Marijuana took as much effort to produce as tobacco you can bet it'd have been legalized a long time ago and be taxed up the wazoo like cigarettes are now.

2. Marijuana, unlike cigarettes, impairs your judgment and reaction time. While you shouldn't smoke cigarettes while you drive, its still possible and you remain relatively alert. Smoking weed however causes actual real-time effects beyond addiction like lethargy, and it can simply lead to more accidents due to inattention/distraction. Again, if marijuana didn't have the obvious side-effects (which are in fact the reason people smoke it in the first place) it would have been legalized long long ago.

1) It's also easy to make your own beer, but people don't bother with that... Look at what's estimated in california with legalization.
2) Alcohol also impairs your judgment and reaction time. I've never heard of weed tests that are as practical as alcohol tests, but I'm sure there must be a quick way to assess if a person is under the influence of drugs that a cop could do.

I don't really buy those two reasons.

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Originally Posted by Hammy

1) It's also easy to make your own beer, but people don't bother with that... Look at what's estimated in california with legalization.
2) Alcohol also impairs your judgment and reaction time. I've never heard of weed tests that are as practical as alcohol tests, but I'm sure there must be a quick way to assess if a person is under the influence of drugs that a cop could do.

I don't really buy those two reasons.

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It doesn't matter if you "buy" them, they're the truth.

Not many people make their own beer because beer is usually produced in much larger quantities than marijuana. Simply, the cost of beer comes mostly from processing and shipping it all over in 6 packs. Packaging is a large cost for most companies. Any average Joe in his basement can sell his weed in Ziplock baggies locally pretty cheaply.

Alcohol isn't legal. Its "restricted" to those over 18 or 21. The difference is fairly large. Because almost no one makes their own beer its limited to liquor stores and bars. Which makes it easier to limit who gets to consume it, and how much. The same couldn't be said about street corner green.

You can't sell tobacco to anyone under 18 in most states in the US (only exception being a handful of southern states).
And of course you shouldn't be able to buy weed if you're a minor.

It could still be illegal to sell marijuana without a licence (just like anything else). People are already allowed to grow their own weed for medicinal purposes. Of course there are some slip-ups, but that's why there's regulation.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

It doesn't matter if you "buy" them, they're the truth.

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Oh my, well now I'm convinced.

I can see how these would be arguments in favor of "not legalizing" marijuana, but to me neither do they justify this decision, nor are they the "only two reasons" as you seem to state.

I think there's also a huge historical and cultural factor, and that the reason tobacco escapes this ban is because of how powerful the lobbies are. Weed hasn't been legalized yet because there aren't as powerful groups pushing for it to be legalized.
I think it's only a matter of time in many states/countries though. Look at california's plan.

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Originally Posted by Hammy

You can't sell tobacco to anyone under 18 in most states in the US (only exception being a handful of southern states).
And of course you shouldn't be able to buy weed if you're a minor.

It could still be illegal to sell marijuana without a licence (just like anything else). People are already allowed to grow their own weed for medicinal purposes. Of course there are some slip-ups, but that's why there's regulation.


Oh my, well now I'm convinced.

I can see how these would be arguments in favor of "not legalizing" marijuana, but to me neither do they justify this decision, nor are they the "only two reasons" as you seem to state.

I think there's also a huge historical and cultural factor, and that the reason tobacco escapes this ban is because of how powerful the lobbies are. Weed hasn't been legalized yet because there aren't as powerful groups pushing for it to be legalized.
I think it's only a matter of time in many states/countries though. Look at california's plan.

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I'm not in favor or against it. I'm merely simplifying the situation so everyone can understand. Marijuana is easier to produce than cigarettes or alcohol, and thus harder to tax. If the government can't make money off it, they'd rather have it illegal. Because they need a way to keep all the unneeded judges and lawyers employed. It also has side-effects like alcohol but once again can't be as controlled as that substance.

There was this Cracked article addressing that particular issue (there being way to many lawsuits), Pistols as dawn!

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Originally Posted by JohnUcrazy

(Link - Warning, it can be a little...disturbing...)

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If a SWAT team did that to my dog I would hunt them down and let them bleed to death watching a picture of my dog.
That was very disturbing and it made me angry.
Thanks for sharing though, a nice example of the pointlessness of chasing Mary Jane.
On a side note, that video also teaches you to always open the door when the police is asking.

There is so much problems with the drug cartels. Its so bad we don't even know if the mexican government can win. Legalizing marijuana is the only way. Just look at Al Capone and the gangsters in Chicago during the Alchohol prohibition.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

There are only two reasons marijuana is illegal.

1. Marijuana is illegal yet cigarettes are sold everywhere is because its much easier for people to farm their own weed than make their own cancer sticks, and thus its harder to gain tax revenue from the mary jane. If Marijuana took as much effort to produce as tobacco you can bet it'd have been legalized a long time ago and be taxed up the wazoo like cigarettes are now.

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True...but long before modern cigarettes came into fashion, people rolled and, in some cases, grew their own Tobacco. Companies came along and streamlined the process, creating relatively cheap alternatives. People stopped rolling their own, for the most part, and switched to these. I'm sure if Marijuana were to be legalized tomorrow across the US and Canada, the big Tobacco companies and a few upstarts would scramble to create ready-made Marijuana in cigarette-like form. And people would buy them, I bet.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

2. Marijuana, unlike cigarettes, impairs your judgment and reaction time. While you shouldn't smoke cigarettes while you drive, its still possible and you remain relatively alert. Smoking weed however causes actual real-time effects beyond addiction like lethargy, and it can simply lead to more accidents due to inattention/distraction. Again, if marijuana didn't have the obvious side-effects (which are in fact the reason people smoke it in the first place) it would have been legalized long long ago.

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Also true. However, alcohol has been responsible for many, many automotive, industrial, nautical, aeronautical and domestic related accidents and deaths over the years and it is no where near being baned. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but from a legal stand-point, what grounds would a legal body have for saying one was not any more or less mind-altering than the other.

One good point that can be drawn from this example is that if the damaging history of alcohol is any indication, the legalized introduction of Marijuana would be devastating.

Squidward, you present all the logical arguments for legalization, yet you fail to take a position?

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Originally Posted by Hamshank

Squidward, you present all the logical arguments for legalization, yet you fail to take a position?

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I don't "fail" to pick a side. I choose not to. The outcome doesn't affect me in any major way. I understand why its illegal, and I understand why and how it could be legalized safely. That's more proactive than most people get.

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Originally Posted by screw_ball69

Please explain, I have yet to see evidence of this

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Physically it's not (unless you're considering the munchies). But emotionally it could have long term effects. And there's no denying the drastic effects it has on one's motivation.

I'm not condoning its use, and in fact would LOVE to see it legalized. Just speaking from experience here.

A big part of the problem is that there are only so many people in the world that actually know how to take things in moderation. In an ideal world, everything could be legalized, because no one would overdo it. Unfortunately, with everything you legalize — guns, drugs, physical discipline, etc. — someone overdoes it and makes it look like an inherently bad thing.

Because I tend to favor freedom, I'd tend toward the legalization of marijuana, but before we go making it okay off of a whim, we really need to sit down and think about how this would affect not only the people but also the economy and other things like that.

Well, I'm not opposed to others using it, the same way I'm not opposed to others smoking cigarettes(in well-ventilated outdoor areas) and/or drinking alcohol (safely). Actually, I've never tried a cigarette. Always kind of grossed me out. And I limit my alcohol intake to a little wine every now and again. No hard liquor.

And from a personal standpoint, I won't use Marijuana if it were to become legal.

Concerning the health affects...

I figure we've got enough imperfection health-wise built-in. Why add to the problems with this stuff.

Squid as much as I hate your point on driving under the influence you're right. I'm on the fence when it comes to driving under the influence of marijuana. Some people do fine, but you're still high. I smoke marijuana all the time, but even I'm not going to say "It doesn't have side effects." I don't think they are as bad as drinking or alchohol. And besides it's my body, my pleasure, my pain. No one has the right to tell me what I can, and can't do... unless it's supporting gangsters. Which I really try not to. I want it legal all ready. I was going to go somewhere with this post... oh yeah. I think pot should be legal but with condition like smoking. Some public places you couldn't smoke. Maybe you can't smoke weed while driving.. or just make smoking anything while driving illegal. That would work. :P

There really is a lot of stuff I could say, but I'm just not really in the mood to talk about weed. I rather smoke it right now. :P

"Physically it's not (unless you're considering the munchies). But emotionally it could have long term effects. And there's no denying the drastic effects it has on one's motivation.

I'm not condoning its use, and in fact would LOVE to see it legalized. Just speaking from experience here"

Drastic emotions? Maybe on your first use it makes you laugh like crazy, but that is it. Well maybe if you smoke enough... but it doesn't make you depressed. I'm a depressed person, but weed never causes it. Weed is the last thing that makes me sad. If I'm sad I'm going to be sad, if I'm mad I'll be mad. Weed isn't causing it. I'd like to smoke weed to cure my depression, but I don't think my doctor would let me. :(

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Originally Posted by Blazur

Physically it's not (unless you're considering the munchies). But emotionally it could have long term effects. And there's no denying the drastic effects it has on one's motivation.

I'm not condoning its use, and in fact would LOVE to see it legalized. Just speaking from experience here.

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if your getting emotionally altering effects from it your weed is laced with somthing extra I am sorry to say.

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Originally Posted by Hamshank

Squidward, you present all the logical arguments for legalization, yet you fail to take a position?

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I think he needs a swiss flag by his name.

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Originally Posted by screw_ball69

I think he needs a swiss flag by his name.

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I don't even like cheese!

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I don't even like cheese!

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That is scary dude. How can someone not like cheese? I think you need to smoke some pot.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

That is scary dude. How can someone not like cheese? I think you need to smoke some pot.

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Well I mean, I'll eat melted cheese on pizza or in lasagna. But a slice or chunk of cheese is just revolting.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Well I mean, I'll eat melted cheese on pizza or in lasagna. But a slice or chunk of cheese is just revolting.

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Oh. My bad. Haha. I can see how you hate cheese like that. I could go on about cheese but I don't want to get this thread all... cheesy?

That depends on what is "legalization". If it only means you don't go to jail if police finds a mj cigar in your pocket, i think it's fine.

I wouldn't want people high on the streets, however, nor companies making this stuff.

Tobacco companies are rich enough by killing people with tobacco already. Hell, i wonder what % of the crap inside cigars is really tobacco, they smell like burning chemical waste, or something like that.

Squidward, you don't have to be on anyone's side and lobby one or the other but you should be able to form an opinion after hearing logical arguments for both instead of /yawn let's not think about it.

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Originally Posted by Hamshank

Squidward, you don't have to be on anyone's side and lobby one or the other but you should be able to form an opinion after hearing logical arguments for both instead of /yawn let's not think about it.

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Its fairly obvious I've thought about it and picked the opinion of "it doesn't matter which side wins."

I'm very against the use of drugs including marijuana and smoking because of their negative effects on peoples lives and their health. I don't drink either, there are many ways to enjoy life without those things. I think marijuana should stay illegal and all the kids that think it's cool or say "it doesn't have the bad side effects like they tell you" really frustrate me.

I also enjoy working out so I like to keep my body healthy, not because I want to live longer or look good but because I enjoy it, it increases performance and makes me feel better. Especially since I am recovering from a illness.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

That depends on what is "legalization". If it only means you don't go to jail if police finds a mj cigar in your pocket, i think it's fine.

I wouldn't want people high on the streets, however, nor companies making this stuff.

Tobacco companies are rich enough by killing people with tobacco already. Hell, i wonder what % of the crap inside cigars is really tobacco, they smell like burning chemical waste, or something like that.

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Well people are already high on the streets, though I agree. It will come down to a line. I think there will probably be special rules on it. you'll still see people smoking pot in the streets but they would anyway you know. The hard part is not to encourage people to be smoking weed on the streets. I worry that if we do make it legal people will smoke far to much in public. They will forget about the other half of the population who don't like the smell, or being around it, etc... Will have to be very careful in making rules that allow marijuana smokers freedom to smoke while trying to keep non smokers comfortable.

"I'm very against the use of drugs including marijuana and smoking because of their negative effects on peoples lives and their health. I don't drink either, there are many ways to enjoy life without those things. I think marijuana should stay illegal and all the kids that think it's cool or say "it doesn't have the bad side effects like they tell you" really frustrate me"

Peoples lives? Come up to British Columbia. You need to see marijuana from a different light. It's not like other drugs. Also don't bring the cool factor into it. No one smokes weed because it's cool. If they do please beat them up for me. I can see how you could get mad about people saying it doesn't have bad side effects. I don't think the side effects are major however. With prolong use I can see it, but it wont kill me. I could do a lot more damage if I drank. :P Aww yeah. Again I think it comes down to, my body, my pleasure, my pain.

One thing smokers would have to do is form a gentleman's mentality about smoking weed in public. If someone asks you to put it out you might have to in certain places. It's a drug... I'm not going to argue against that. If it was legal though it would safe everyone A LOT of trouble, and money. It would also make Canada's government very wealthy. :D

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Its fairly obvious I've thought about it and picked the opinion of "it doesn't matter which side wins."

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By standing by and let marijuana be criminalized you're on their side.:mad::p

You obviously don't care where your tax dollars go to?

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Originally Posted by Hamshank

By standing by and let marijuana be criminalized you're on their side.:mad::p

You obviously don't care where your tax dollars go to?

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I care, but its not like Canada is important in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I care, but its not like Canada is important in the grand scheme of things.

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Now you're just making me cry for no reason. :( And to think I was going to share my bacon, poutine, and maple syrup with you. Not anymore!

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Now you're just making me cry for no reason. :( And to think I was going to share my bacon, poutine, and maple syrup with you. Not anymore!

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I live in Calgary. I can get all that stuff just fine on my own.

I have a lot of friends who smoke pot. I don't want to enable them because I see the effects it has on them.
I also know that having it illegal is causing a lot of crime for no good reason.
Marijuana simply needs the same rules and restrictions as alcohol, but its also harder to enforce those rules on marijuana.
So instead of sitting on the fence, I've chosen to just not care because the outcome has no real effect on ME. There's no laws against that, at least.

Hell, I don't even vote for our political representatives because no one running is worth my support.

Here, it was recently "legalized", but it's only legal to have it with you in low quantities, and you cannot smoke it in public. Basically, you don't go to jail if you're found in posession of this, but that's all.

I think it was a good compromise decision, as tobacco and alcohol are/can be very dangerous, and they probably are way too dangerous, as it seems like if you're young, your best bet at social life is to go to a disco, and get drunk to the spine.

I'm not really sure if marijuana can be compared with say, alcohol, or not, but alcohol in low quantities doesn't seems to have any long lasting effects, while smoking marijuana is said to have cumulative health issues, much like smoking tobacco.

Squid, don't you care about the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue in taxes, businesses, tourism, the misconstruction of the priorities of the police who should be attacking criminals not dopers, the money for rehabilitation of offenders, the lives ruined by criminal records and the loss on the economy (yea lets put a guy through school and spend hundred thousand dollars then hv him get arrested for smoking pot and lose his life; obama wouldn't hv become pres. if they caught him smoking pot), no industrial hemp production which is HUGE.....violence from drug cartels, drug dealers, etc. fueling organized crime

hemp as a fuel, paper, material such as a hemp brick, food, milk, etc.

hemp is great for the green revolution and hasn't been exploited yet, there is a huge market for it


1 trillion over 40 years has been spent in the US on the drug war, does that matter to you at all??????????

don't you care? or are you totally nihilistic to everything lol

In WA state alone just putting the people in jail with the legal costs and the prison housing costs taxpayers 300 million a year.
300 million of money wasted when there's a huge state deficit. 300 million when people are on the streets starving to death.
300 million, just in my state alone.

If you care donate to Sensible Washington, a local initiative to legalize marijuana and let's start a wave of change across the continent.

All it takes is a few states and the Federal government is going to have to radically change policy. If this starts going in the US it will happen in Canada too, which it almost did already, Federally.

It's going to be on the ballot in California, it might in Oregon and it might in WA.

If it is legalized even only in California that will be great, but still isolated.

this can turn the whole west coast into the green coast :p

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Originally Posted by Hamshank

Squid, don't you care...

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No, I really don't.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

I live in Calgary. I can get all that stuff just fine on my own.

I have a lot of friends who smoke pot. I don't want to enable them because I see the effects it has on them.
I also know that having it illegal is causing a lot of crime for no good reason.
Marijuana simply needs the same rules and restrictions as alcohol, but its also harder to enforce those rules on marijuana.
So instead of sitting on the fence, I've chosen to just not care because the outcome has no real effect on ME. There's no laws against that, at least.

Hell, I don't even vote for our political representatives because no one running is worth my support.

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Heh, I live in Calgary too. This place is too conservative/clean for legalized weed to really run through. Even if they allowed it in certain "Coffee Shops", i'd imagine not many places would have it. Places in Kengsington/17th Ave would get pissed and say "HAY WE DONT LIKE THOSE KINDA PEOPLE COMING IN AROUND HERE , CLOSE YER DAMN SHOP!! YER ATTRACTING THE WRONG KINDA PEOPLE!!"
Anyways, our clubs here still discriminate on race :rolleyes: and our biggest event is a week filled with gypsie rides and faux-cowboys. I gotta get outta here.

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Originally Posted by Hamshank

Squid, don't you care about the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue in taxes, businesses, tourism, the misconstruction of the priorities of the police who should be attacking criminals not dopers, the money for rehabilitation of offenders, the lives ruined by criminal records and the loss on the economy (yea lets put a guy through school and spend hundred thousand dollars then hv him get arrested for smoking pot and lose his life; obama wouldn't hv become pres. if they caught him smoking pot), no industrial hemp production which is HUGE.....violence from drug cartels, drug dealers, etc. fueling organized crime

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The problem is, Weed is taken very lightly here in Canada. It basically is legalized on a personal level so long as you do not have large amounts of on you. If you're caught, you're usually just told to go home and/or have your weed confiscated. So me and DemolitionSquid (And probably a lot of other Canadians) don't see it as much of a problem. But it is a multi billion or trillion dollar business in British Columbia (I think 40-50% of all Weed in the US is from British Columbia, Canada . Isn't it ? )
I can understand where you are coming from in an American perspective. I've watched a few documentaries on this and how it is in the States, it's like you guys treat it like Cocaine/Meth in some states. We just give people a slap on the wrist so long as they are not intentionally distributing/growing it.

The extremist measures on weed in the states feels like its linked back to the crazed moral/culture warrior republicans. And with that in mind, I don't think they'll be welcoming the idea of legalizing "pot" anytime soon...Canada is pretty liberal, even our conservative party is a bit liberal on things.

I think the ideal spot for the US is some middle road. They need to legalize it in some manners or some local authorized coffe shops like how they do it in the Netherlands (Amsterdam is in the Netherlands right??..) .
Wide spread legalization won't fly, not until the day an Aethiest President is elected.
And I think wide spread legalization would be bad too, it's still a great gateway drug and the moronic street myths around it still puzzle me.
Like how it can't cause cancer, or how it's "good" for you, etc. The fact is, you're inhaling incinerated vegetable material - which is a carcinogen.

They should just legalize the THC inhalers, I wonder how many pot junkies will stop because they'll look like a serious Asthma victim :D.
That way, people can get high and not let the damn smoke linger around all over the place and avoid the majority of the carcinogens.

THC inhalers? I'm on. I would do it. Why do I care, I'm high. :D