Placement matches no longer auto-place you in the Diamond League

Source: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...41407&sid=5000

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Originally Posted by Bashiok

With the release of Patch 15, we are adjusting the way in which placement and promotions work within the Leagues and Ladders system. As we’re wiping the database so everyone can test this change, we’re specifically looking for feedback on your experience in getting placed in a league after completing your placement rounds.

As an additional note, an implication of this change is that players will no longer be immediately added to the Diamond league upon completion of their placement matches. You can read about the database reset here: http://f orums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25171930882&sid=5000

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Your thoughts?

I think this is a good thing, as Diamond will now be something that all players will have to actually work for. It's a "real" achievement.

This is excellent. I'm quite excited to see how this pans out.

~LoA

Its perfect. No more "accidental" diamond players when somebody gets matched up against 4 bronze and a silver in their placement matches.

agreed, i believe this change is for the better.

For me personally, this doesn't change much, since I've always been placed in like silver or gold, and every time I've worked my self up to the highest league. But overall it's a very nice change. This probably means more promotions and less demotions=)

This is good news. I think diamond would be better as something you moved up to rather than got placed in, but I still don't like 100 player divisions.

I think that this is a great change :p. There were often a lot of ho-hum players in the top league, so I'm happy that this change will ensure that that league is truly reserved only for a very high standard of play :).

I kinda feel like Platinum will have a wide spectrum now.. ?

Good change, refining the quality of diamond league while giving players more of a feeling of purpose.

its alright but doesnt solve the main issue.. Divisions are the worst idea ever.

we need a REAL ladder at least for diamond, or people lost lots of motivation to even play ladder (Ret himself said it, and I agree 100%, why should I bother to keep laddering when im always 400-500+ points ahead of #2 in my division??)

Again though, this fix was for the casual players, the ones who were saying "wah i got put in diamond and now im losing to pros"... rather than doing anything for competitive players. Typical Activision Blizzard style.

It is the first step in many to get diamond where it deserves. Skyze, normally I find my opinion aligned right along with yours, but in this case if you think of this as "not the last change" it's a good step to get your diamond league where it belongs. By removing all those people who shouldn't be there, you significantly reduce the amount of player inflation in the diamond leagues.

I'm not saying this will be the way it happens, but imagine if there were only 4 divisions in diamond?

Also remember, the future brings leagues above diamond that will be invite only for professionals/teams. Speculation leads to believe that the only "divisions" in this are essentially league divisions. (Aka, MSL, OSL, etc)

Good stuff.

Probably on my top five list of decisions made in the beta. Sounds like they genuinely listened to the community on this one, and not just some knee jerkers but singling out quality feedback.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

its alright but doesnt solve the main issue.. Divisions are the worst idea ever.

we need a REAL ladder at least for diamond, or people lost lots of motivation to even play ladder (Ret himself said it, and I agree 100%, why should I bother to keep laddering when im always 400-500+ points ahead of #2 in my division??)

Again though, this fix was for the casual players, the ones who were saying "wah i got put in diamond and now im losing to pros"... rather than doing anything for competitive players. Typical Activision Blizzard style.

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1. This is good for everyone except Diamond level players who want to curbstomp lucky noobs.
2. Blizzard has always been in favor of the "casual" player. Just look at their consistently low tech specs.

Good news, now we just need the numbers of players in the leagues to be pyramidal.

I thought it was strange that, when Battle.net was having problem, I dropped during two of my placement matches and I was still placed in high Diamond :D

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Originally Posted by Skyze

its alright but doesnt solve the main issue.. Divisions are the worst idea ever.

we need a REAL ladder at least for diamond, or people lost lots of motivation to even play ladder (Ret himself said it, and I agree 100%, why should I bother to keep laddering when im always 400-500+ points ahead of #2 in my division??)

Again though, this fix was for the casual players, the ones who were saying "wah i got put in diamond and now im losing to pros"... rather than doing anything for competitive players. Typical Activision Blizzard style.

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The pro league will remedy this as well as outside statistics. Why are pros playing on Battle.net ladder anyways? At least wait until the pro league :D

(Sorry for the DP, please merge this with above. I forgot I already posted in this topic :()

This isn't the NFL. Pros don't keep the lights on at blizzard, or any other game developer for that matter. They'll pander to the group who ponys up the dough.

I watched a Live Stream of Nony doing his placement matches and first dozen or so games in Platinum. Was sad watching him destroy so many Platinum players so easily. A lot of people near my skill level getting destroyed by one of the best North American players.

Of course, he is a special case and I still agree with the no initial placement to diamond.

For the first few resets, 1 or no placement wins got you in copper, 2 in bronze, 3 in silver, 4 in gold, 5 in plat. Last reset, 1 or no got you in bronze, 2 in silver, etc. Now, 0,1, or 2 wins gets you in bronze, meaning 5 wins will only get you into platinum. Essentially, in the newest patch, Platinum is the same skill it was before the reset, and Diamond is now one higher than that. For those who think, "Why should, I continue laddering?" you now have somewhere to go. It makes Diamond more exclusive, with less players, meaning each division will hold higher level players, and being #1 in the highest league will now be significantly more challenging than it has been in any other patch, hopefully addressing some of those concerns.

Honestly, though, I think there need to be more lower leagues, like a tin for no wins and a copper for 1 win. I mean, more higher leagues are good as well, I just think there should be more leagues in general to give a better representation of where that person actually is, and get him/her in a ladder that better fits his/her skill level.

I think the main problem with divisions is that they accommodate such a wide variety of skill levels in such a small number of players. If you are 1st out of 100 people who are very different from you, what achievement is that? You would much rather be ranked against people who are closer to you. If you are ranked 1st out of a 100 people that could very easily edge you out, you feel competition against those people. I support the division system. Perhaps it's because I'm a nub, but I'd rather be 50th in silver than 183650th out of 257689, and I'd much rather move to 40th than to 183756th, even if it takes the same number of games, and I get the same number of points, and pass even more people, as the result of being in a big ladder. It's purely psychological, but if there are 5 people it looks like I could pass, I want to try and pass them. I can look in my division and say "That guy. I passed him before, now he's ahead of me. I need to get better and beat him." It's far easier to do in a ladder of 100 than 1000000.

That said, it does nothing for me if I'm at the bottom of 100 people, all of which are several hundred points ahead of me, or if I'm hundreds above the people behind me. I want to feel significant, I want to feel competition, I want to feel like the games I play on the ladder affect my place in the ladder. I don't get that feeling if I play vs. 1000's of people, and I don't get that feeling if I play against the wrong 100 people. I think there should be at least 7 leagues; 5 is not nearly enough to accommodate the wide range of skill levels.

Also, I think it's weird that Gold is 3rd out of 5. XD

Yea it is weird to think that gold is mediocre.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

its alright but doesnt solve the main issue.. Divisions are the worst idea ever.

we need a REAL ladder at least for diamond, or people lost lots of motivation to even play ladder (Ret himself said it, and I agree 100%, why should I bother to keep laddering when im always 400-500+ points ahead of #2 in my division??)

Again though, this fix was for the casual players, the ones who were saying "wah i got put in diamond and now im losing to pros"... rather than doing anything for competitive players. Typical Activision Blizzard style.

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Yes, in the end there's no way to get around it: even a tightened placement system will never be as useful or informative as a straightforward global ranking. Medal divisions will always place priority on superficial (if attractive) distinctions over competition and accuracy. So there will always be something to be desired.

I wont believe a "pro league" until I see it myself, so far Blizzard has proven to not be trusted with "future ideas".. (see cross-realm play, which they said would be possible in March, now we have to spend $150 to get 3 copies of each expansion..)

So yeh, this isnt really a good enough solution in my opinion.

Blizzard doesn't make money off not including the pro league. In fact, they would stand to gain. The problems you're talking about are relating to making more money which, from a capitalist perspective, I completely understand where they're coming from. Basically, if they make money off having or not having a feature that everyone wants or doesn't want then you should worry because Blizzard will naturally chose themselves over the customers for something like this. For something like a pro league where they stand to gain a lot from including it, you should have no fear that they'll implement it.

This is much better, now you can't know where you will go by how many wins/loses you got.

well if I keep facing super noobs(im not even that good just the other guys really suck!) than i might get default diamond! 3-0 none close.

Dear Andrew: The purpose of this topic was to discuss how you can no longer get default diamond. Please at least read the first post of the topic before you respond. Thanks.

I get the feeling that most people complaining about the universal ladder should just work towards getting inviting to the Pro League. I mean thats the whole point right? At that stage of the game, your fighting to be the best.

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Originally Posted by Dragoonx

I get the feeling that most people complaining about the universal ladder should just work towards getting inviting to the Pro League. I mean thats the whole point right? At that stage of the game, your fighting to be the best.

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Do you really believe there will be a pro league? I dont.

So everything that we are bringing up as serious issues, all will be resolved in something that was last mentioned in 2008? I have no faith this "pro league" thing is even still in the works, as is everything else they said would be in the game, but isnt.

Besides, unless this "pro league" actually has a REAL LADDER, with a real ranking.. I doubt it will solve ANY issues.. From what it sounds like, its going to be like Gifted said, still divisions but like 4-5 of them.. which is still retarded and counterproductive. we need ONE BIG LADDER, nothing else.

Skyze, my information is not up to date this month, but last I heard a new form of league will exist above the Diamond league in the future. I can't elaborate on it in the forums and for that I'm sorry. Besides, the information I was provided might be out of date or subject to change, so hanging on my words wouldn't help, ya know?

I really don't see what blizz would stand to gain with NOT having a pro league. Just pissing of the pro gamers which are the people who are making the pro gaming scene all the money.

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Originally Posted by SinsWage

This isn't the NFL. Pros don't keep the lights on at blizzard, or any other game developer for that matter. They'll pander to the group who ponys up the dough.

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Actually, it was the pro scene that kept SC/WC3 alive for so long. You think that SC/BW would be played 10-12 years after it was released if there was no pro-leagues? I don't. Hell, WC3 got extremely lucky with DoTA; there are more people playing DoTA than the actual game.

Just about the only game where the casual crowd out-numbered the hardcore players is WoW and maybe D2. I'm hesitant on D2 because the sheer number of people grinding 15 hours a day for runes/SoJs to trade is ridiculous.

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Actually, it was the pro scene that kept SC/WC3 alive for so long.

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And what does that mean for the game developer? How much did Blizzard make on SC1 Progamming? Oh, I imagine they sold quite a few SC1 titles on it, particularly in Korea. But that's about it.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

And what does that mean for the game developer? How much did Blizzard make on SC1 Progamming? Oh, I imagine they sold quite a few SC1 titles on it, particularly in Korea. But that's about it.

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It kept the game in the gaming public's mind and sold hundreds of thousands more copies past the game's natural lifespan. So yea, it definitely brought them in money.

SC2 might not have the same lifespan as SC1. There are a lot of anti-competitive and straight up dumb design decisions that could hinder SC2's growth.

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Originally Posted by LordofAscension

This is excellent. I'm quite excited to see how this pans out.

~LoA

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My thoughts exactly. It will ensure that the Diamond league players are a step above from the rest, it will take more than 5 games, which isn't a good measure, to prove yourself.

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Originally Posted by Maul

This is good news. I think diamond would be better as something you moved up to rather than got placed in, but I still don't like 100 player divisions.

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This will get better when there are millions of players playing at once.

As for the diamond league shut out, its great, being in diamond league will mean something now. Overall is a great change. The closer Blizzard can put you in the right ranking the better it is for the player.