Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Even though discussion changed slightly and is now back "on track" about chatchannels and whatnot, I'd like to point out a specific situation "bad communications from forum mods" in WoW. (I stopped playing back in June 2009, but my old guild is very dear to me and we keep in touch at our own forum, so I consider myself pretty much into things still ;P)
The EU server Tarren Mill, the server which I had been playing on since January 2007, normally a VERY stabile server, all of a sudden experienced huge connection problems, where people either couldn't log in or were constantly disconnected, at first the Blizz mods began stating on the forums, that there were som problems but they couldn't say more and would say something whenever it would be possible.
Now the problems kept happening. And through only minor improvements like, being able to play more or less normally during day time, but at late afternoon, evening, people would start to get mass DC's again.
Problems kept occurring, and (paying) people on the forums started freaking more and more out, since they now couldn't do things that they were actually paying for, and the Blizz mods started banning people for emotional outbursts (I'm not saying they shouldn't, but it might not be the best of time to ban people, when for some reason, the service you've provided, doesn't work for an extensive amount of time.) but the only replies they left on the forums were the same. "We are working on it and will update as soon as possible".
Now that might all be fine, but it continued for over a month, which led to Ensidia not getting any progress and loosing their status as best EU guild (nvm that, even though Ensidia moved their mains to another server, and THAT server started having problems for some godforsaken reason) but basically people paying for 1-month subscriptions didn't get any real playtime, and even many people payed to migrate to other servers.
This huge thread started in the TM forums started, beside consistent freak-out, also to ask for compensations (also this can be thought upon when considering the facts that other "Blizz Whine Thread" states with Blizz having NO accountability for anything that might happen.) and even though the Blizz mods never ended up "coming back to inform about anything as soon as possible) 6 weeks later the server was once again stabile enough, and 1 day. 1 single, random day. Everyone who'd bade a ticket in-game, about ANY kind of gamerelated problems... ANY. Got to recieve the Burning Crusade Collector's edition pets. No one knew why, or how and nobody had been informed. The problems could might as well have been happening still this day. There was like put a lid on the whole thing.
That is a bad way to treat people. And then for no apparent reason distribute random in-game pets to people to make them shut up.
Awful, awful customerservice.
Sorry for the lenghty post, but it was about a special occurrence where Activision-Blizzard did very poorly.
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sietsh-Tenk
This phrasing implies that only existing clans and groups will be able to create/have chat channels.
Will you still be able to simply type '/join Channel X'? If not, it will not alleviate any of the concerns the community has, namely of a lack of ways to interact and hook up with random players you just met and want to hang out with more often. If there is no way to invite someone to the private channel you just made, a channel which only has to exist temporarily, then it will be very hard to build an online community, because all the organisational problems Husky pointed out will not be resolved.
We need open channels which you can create at will, if the community is to flourish and grow.
Actually, Sietsh-Tenk, they already have a way to meet new friends. After the game you right click on their name and add them. Then you can click on their name on your friend's list and have a chat box just for you and him. The only problem is that's the only way to add friends that won't have your real name. I liked the way to also add friends without real id before patch 13, when you just type their name and identifer and add. This was helpful for resets. Now you have to play them again, and the chances of that out of hundreds if not thousands of people and saying they are your skill level is very low.
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pure.Wasted
I'm not saying they HAVE to listen to our suggestions... I'm saying they (or anyone in their position) would be foolish not to. And if they'd told us what the problem was right away, in this case and many others, we could have given them a lot more specific ideas narrowed down to find the solution for an existing problem than a staff of 10, 20, even 50 people can come up with.
I think people need to realize that Blizzard is a developer. What they are good at is developing games. We are a community, and we're good at...er being a community. Sure Blizzard should listen to us, but don't make the fallacy of thinking that the community is always right. Developers should listen to the community to get ideas, and learn about their target audience. When I was making small games at school I found one of the hardest thing for people to learn is that game design by committee doesn't always work out so well.
At the same time we have to remember what our strength is, community. I think that many are relying too much on Blizzard to create a community. It's our job to create a good community. This is why I vehemently disagree with this statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sietsh-Tenk
We need open channels which you can create at will, if the community is to flourish and grow.
The community will flourish and grow regardless, and in some cases in spite, of whatever community decisions Blizzard might make. Now I'm not saying that there's not deal breakers. For instance the poor server browser in Unreal Tournament 3 practically killed a game that the community would have otherwise liked. The lack of dedicated servers in Modern Warfare 2 has seriously shortened the life of that game's multiplayer.
But chat is not one of those deal breakers. Plenty of games get by without having a dedicated chat network for their games. In fact...MOST games get by without this. In fact...Blizzard games are about the only ones I can think of that have dedicated chat. As long as I can connect with friends, and find a game, not much else really matters.
By omitting chat from battle.net it gives us the community the opportunity to fill in the gap. The community will then come up with a better solution than anything the developer could ever hope to create. Simply by virtue of the fact that we're a community, and we're good at building communities. A lot of the conversation has already moved to IRC, and I think things are already better because of it.
________
Glass Pipes
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sietsh-Tenk
This phrasing implies that only existing clans and groups will be able to create/have chat channels.
There is no way they would limit the creation of new clans and "group" by only allowing already existing clans/groups to use those new chat functions. That would be completely ridiculous mostly because all the old clans are dead/on the verge of dying and they were never officially recognized in any way other than owning a website at most.
Quote:
Will you still be able to simply type '/join Channel X'? If not, it will not alleviate any of the concerns the community has, namely of a lack of ways to interact and hook up with random players you just met and want to hang out with more often.
There is a match making system to find new players to play with. If you wanna speak with someone you just recently played with, just add him and chat with him. See, instead of having to create a channels and etc, you can just directly speak with this person in your own private little place. Please describe how this is not better than those archaic chat channels.
Quote:
If there is no way to invite someone to the private channel you just made, a channel which only has to exist temporarily, then it will be very hard to build an online community, because all the organisational problems Husky pointed out will not be resolved.
This is partly speculation but their group chat they announced should resolve any of those concerns.
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWD
By omitting chat from battle.net it gives us the community the opportunity to fill in the gap. The community will then come up with a better solution than anything the developer could ever hope to create. Simply by virtue of the fact that we're a community, and we're good at building communities.
That is the worst apologetic defence I have heard for Blizzard's mistake yet.
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TWD
I think people need to realize that Blizzard is a developer. What they are good at is developing games. We are a community, and we're good at...er being a community. Sure Blizzard should listen to us, but don't make the fallacy of thinking that the community is always right. Developers should listen to the community to get ideas, and learn about their target audience.
You're making my point for me. Nowhere did I say that we're always right. Developers SHOULD listen to the community to get ideas. But if they don't narrow the field of ideas down for us by telling us the context of the problems they're working on -- by communicating -- our mass of ideas is going to be completely worthless. If they don't tell us that "ability X doesn't work because of Y," our suggestions in improving X won't take Y into account. If they don't tell us "Battle.net has (or doesn't have) feature A to deal with problem B," when we find out 6 months later we're going to be outraged by feature A (or lack thereof) and they're going to be SURPRISED that we're outraged, and 6 months LATER finally go back and do what the community knew it needed all along.
In its community Blizzard has an invaluable resource. Throughout the production of SC2 they have consistently misused this resource and failed to take advantage of it in any meaningful ways. They're so afraid of telling us about something that's not 99.99% finalized that the game and Battle.net have ended up suffering in very quantifiable, PREVENTABLE ways.
Quote:
There is a match making system to find new players to play with. If you wanna speak with someone you just recently played with, just add him and chat with him. See, instead of having to create a channels and etc, you can just directly speak with this person in your own private little place. Please describe how this is not better than those archaic chat channels.
Easy. Talking to a (random, at that point) person 1 on 1 is weird. Whether they're offended or not, you're infringing on their privacy by initiating such an intimate encounter, and that's going to make you think twice before doing it. "What if this guy's a douche and tells me to fuck off?" Nobody wants to hear that.
In a chat channel with 30 people you can ask a question not addressed to anyone in particular, and someone else who is similarly looking to "hook up" will answer. No need for embarrassment, no need for forcing people to play Russian roulette with random strangers.
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Quote:
By omitting chat from battle.net it gives us the community the opportunity to fill in the gap. The community will then come up with a better solution than anything the developer could ever hope to create. Simply by virtue of the fact that we're a community, and we're good at building communities.
Look at yourself in the mirror typing this, and try to say with a straight face "I am not a complete fanboy".
Seriously, its an absurd justification for a corporation.
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Blues respond. Possibly the biggest Blue response I have every seen on any topic...ever. And I would know. There is one part that I think Xordiah is missing. The community has been talking about this for months if not years. Raging...not raging. Ever possible responce under the sun to alert Blizzard to this problem.
And they did nothing.
From german forum (google translate)
Quote:
To my knowledge, our thoughts are behind all that we do not want any unguided chat rooms, the sink quickly into chaos.
There should be chat features for focused discussions, but advanced functionality to it will most likely not until the start creating the game.
...
We currently can not go into more detail and give definitive answers to specific questions such as these.
Everything else would degenerate into more speculation on my side, what really helps you not continue.
I can assure you, however, that it is not our intention to take you to the fun on Battle.net by limiting social interaction. We want you can always be with the community and your friends in contact. This should, however, be regulated through lanes and putting all the players together in a chat room is not my opinion, this vision needs.
From english (EU) forum
Quote:
I have been watching these threads quite a bit over the week-end and I have to agree more with some of the replies than with the OP of this thread. Rage is not good. Rage makes the forums look like a spam-fest and rage makes us want to ignore players or even ban them, because their tone just gets out of hand. Rage makes players create 50 different threads on the same subject, whereas we prefer to have feedback bundled in one place.
What we do want to see and keep seeing from you is your feedback. We want to know if you do not agree with something, this never changes. What we do not want is players raging and just making unfounded accusations and crying doomsday because at the moment there is something missing that they feel is vital. Please do take a step back before raging - is this something that can be fixed? Do you still enjoy the game itself? Please give your feedback and give us the benefit of the doubt that we do want your game experience to be fun. Please always continue to give us your feedback, when you feel that there is something that you just can not live without. Please always continue to do so without rage and in a civil manner. :)
...
Not on topic though. :P
If there is a hot topic on something, we definitely want players to post and to discuss it. For sure, if there is a thread about a topic that reaches thousands of views and posts it catches our attention faster. This is in fact a signal, that a lot of players are concerned about this topic - it catches the attention and it is very likely to be passed on in our feedback reports.
What I wanted to bring up though was, that while having a lot of players have a very strong opinion about something is a good thing, it is a very bad thing if they are not able to communicate this in a constructive manner. Yes, post about things you don't like but help us change them and tell us why you don't like it or how you would like it. This does not mean that everything can be implemented exactly the way you wish for and it does not mean that we will definitely be able to implement it for launch or even shortly after launch - but a lot of players giving us their point of view on a subject gives us the possibility of bringing this up in an informed manner and also giving us the possibility of taking some good quotes out of these threads.
If we have 50 threads on the same topic, 80% of these are just one-liners saying that this is so terrible and we are a bad company (btw.. 77,2% of statistics are made up on the spot - thanks for the laugh Carighan), then it is hard to find the constructive ones that actually give us the information that we need and just makes us waste a lot of our time for moderation of forums that we could have used a lot better in compiling the feedback.
Just one thing I want to keep pointing out, it has been said before and I always keep saying it - we are on your side. ;) We want to make a game we enjoy and you enjoy. There are timelines that need to be kept, there might be priorities that you don't understand, but in the end, if there is something that is important to you be sure that we will be passing it on. If you rage - you will lose your voice on these forums and you will be one less person fighting for what you want, if you post in a mannered way, we get a lot more out of you as a beta tester.
/end wall of text!
....
Remember, Battle.net 2.0 is work in progress. What a lot of players don't read in the rage is the part where Frank Pearce is talking about Clan chat and Groups chat. That is definitely being worked on. If you check back to our last Twitter dev chat, there was the same question (http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...319&sid=3000):
"We do have plans for chat channels. Specifically, we want to organize chat channels around users' interests so you know what types of conversations you are going to get into when you join a channel. This feature is not something that will be in for beta. Currently we plan to do this feature in a patch after the game launches. "
...
Hehe.. we do ask for your opinion. That is what this forum is for, that is what the beta test if for and we have pulled quite a few things out of these forums. Sometimes getting involved in discussions does change the course of the discussion though. Just now we just wanted to jump in, because it just turned too emotional and this usually leads to a lot of flaming and insulting which is something we don't want to see on the forums.
...
You mean the thread where you were just talking about how you won't use it but it doesn't hurt you either and you're just mad because of the priorities? That feedback was passed on, but just please note that the Facebook integration in its current form, is a lot simpler to implement than most of you would believe. :)
....
By the way, something that might have come off wrong when explaining this. We don't want/need a wall of text from every single player. If you just want to show your support, than posting just a small confirmation that this is what you feel as well is totally valid. But please make sure that this is not posted in an insulting manner.
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To be honest, the kittens distracted me tons while watching that video. ^^
Source
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...o=1&sid=5010#4
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ArcherofAiur
There is one part that I think Xordiah is missing. The community has been talking about this for months if not years. Raging...not raging. Ever possible responce under the sun to alert Blizzard to this problem.
And they did nothing.
Yup, that's key. The only reason there is rage is because all of this was allowed to continue for so long.
All Blizzard would have had to do is A) find a thread discussion Battle.net features that looked like it had some intelligent discussion going on, and B) get one of its main B.net developer staff to just go there and talk to people for 5 hours. See what their arguments are when they're allowed to correct him in his assumptions ON THE SPOT.
Instead of dragging this mess out for months, a single two-way conversation could have easily solved everything. Once again, the issue is the lack of meaningful communication.
Re: Husky Video: The State of BNET 2.0
Regarding the limitation in communication in BNET 2.0, could Facebook integration compensate for this? Facebook is easy to use and able to create groups and set events, both of which can also be set to private and so not accessible to outsiders. Info that needs to be shared can also be sent out via PMs, either to individuals or to everyone in a group or event. So, assuming a user friendly interface, is there need for an in-house comm. system?
On a side note, I have a few suggestions that should appease both, the community and shareholders. First, set regional servers by default and then charge players a small, lump sum fee to access international servers. Casual gamers wouldn't really need to branch out internationally when they first start and those with friends overseas can play with them without having to buy a copy from those countries. As for the LAN issue, just insert an online-based security check in order to access multiplayer.
