Female Marauder

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Originally Posted by warrior6

she isn't bad looking since she is kinda old. but she is def sleak, sneaky and flexible.

kerrigan is def super feminine. she is sleak, flexible, sneaky and trying to be made increasingly sexy.

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Perhaps. But I dare you say Samus Aran from Metroid is particularly feminine when in her power armor.

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/u...me_hunters.jpg

She'd probably give Master Chief a run for his money.

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Originally Posted by warrior6

you gotta look at things in terms of ratios man. how many men are on the frontlines infantry in most country's armies compared to women. how many men are tank drivers, pilots and battleship captains and fleet admirals compared to women? i'm pretty sure that the case in the starcraft universe is somewhat similar. this is why the women are mostly in highly specialized roles. ones that usually are somewhat covert or support units.

again...people expect starcraft 2 to somehow break the social barriers society has created to reflect our society instead of what human universal society has always been like. men soldiers outnumber women soldiers probably with a higher ratio than like 10:1. this is why they are specialized.

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Using that rationale, then shouldn't all Terran units be Caucasian? They seem to be the most populace Terran race in Starcraft and also seem to form the majority of their military. Yet, the Marauder, in its current form is Black. Are you suggesting that Marauders are predominantly Black?

The point of the portraits and dialog are not to portray the commonest subgroup or the average soldier but to give each unit a distinct look and personality. Making them all the frontline combatants macho men makes them all feel similar. Having a tough as nails female character thrown in mixes things up.

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Originally Posted by Perfecttear

There is currently alot off debating about female unit in starcraft, so i am making a suggestion and would like your thought on this.

I was looking at some unit portraits, and i realized that there are almost none female units in sc2 for the terrans. In sc1 there were atleast the medic and the Valkyrie.
So i am wondering what do you think about a female marauder, there is no reason why males only should be wearing a combait suit, the medic to was wearing an armor, they would just need to change the portrait and voice and it would be a female marauder. And you would finally have a kickass female unit, that means business :D

There is no need to change the unit animation, so there would be no visible difference,even if you zoom in, except the portrait and the voice. It's about time there is a female unit that doesn't only heal or transport units. :p

I don't know why female units have to be degenerated, to just pilot things or heal,they should have a combait suit and fight on the front and kill stuff , and marauder would be the best choice, atleast for me ,so noone could say it's a fan service.The Marauder suite is most likely a robotic suite smiler to the Marine and there for carries most of its own weight, the user inside does not have to be super pumped up, so it's perfect :p

Wouldn't it give a special vibe if the toughest infantry unit would be a female, and it would have some great quotes, like the Valkyrie.

And please feel open to the suggestion, and explain if you disagree, and be polite :)

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no tits in starcraft , no female unit. ( maybe they meant the Zerg Queen? )

should have made Reapers female.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

Perhaps. But I dare you say Samus Aran from Metroid is particularly feminine when in her power armor.

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/u...me_hunters.jpg

She'd probably give Master Chief a run for his money.

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you keep proving my point. samus is a sexy, sometimes sneaky, and vey sleak. your not gonna see an averaging looking or butch ugly woman in any of those roles.

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Using that rationale, then shouldn't all Terran units be Caucasian? They seem to be the most populace Terran race in Starcraft and also seem to form the majority of their military. Yet, the Marauder, in its current form is Black. Are you suggesting that Marauders are predominantly Black?

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no im saying that starcraft is gonna play on cliche stereotypes. the black guy is in the biggest armor, the battlecruiser captain looks like a white old pirate, the firebat was a guy that smokes cigarettes and is a pyromaniac, the medic was a hot nurse, the vulture is some cow boy, the siege tank is a really really manly tough guy. NEED i continue? lol. out of these stereotypes, the girl in the giant armor isn't gonna fit.

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The point of the portraits and dialog are not to portray the commonest subgroup or the average soldier but to give each unit a distinct look and personality. Making them all the frontline combatants macho men makes them all feel similar. Having a tough as nails female character thrown in mixes things up.

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since when are all they all macho-men? they may mostly be dudes, but i dont see them all as macho. the point is some stuff just feels really wierd. if the scv was a girl? lol that would be wtf. imagine 50 of them.....all women. lol. this is why the girl in every game is gonna be a highly specialized, character. a sleak, sneaky, sexy and flexible highly specialzed character

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Originally Posted by warrior6

you keep proving my point. samus is a sexy, sometimes sneaky, and vey sleak. your not gonna see an averaging looking or butch ugly woman in any of those roles.

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Actually, when Metroid first came out, everyone thought Samus was a guy. And when asked, the developers revealed she was supposed to be a guy but they decided to change the gender midway as a twist (without actually changing the armor design). Furthermore, she's about as sleek and 'sexy' as the guys, since they too wear a similar armor to hers. Moreover, there's nothing sneaky at all about her. Samus is most definitely a frontline combatant.

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Originally Posted by warrior6

no im saying that starcraft is gonna play on cliche stereotypes. the black guy is in the biggest armor, the battlecruiser captain looks like a white old pirate, the firebat was a guy that smokes cigarettes and is a pyromaniac, the medic was a hot nurse, the vulture is some cow boy, the siege tank is a really really manly tough guy. NEED i continue? lol. out of these stereotypes, the girl in the giant armor isn't gonna fit.

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And yet, you keep neglecting the fact that the very concept of Starcraft's Terrans is itself a subversion of common expectations: They're rednecks in space!!

As for your claim that they girls in armor don't fit, look at these:

The Ladette
The Squadette
Action Girl
Amazon Brigade

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Originally Posted by warrior6

since when are all they all macho-men? they may mostly be dudes, but i dont see them all as macho. the point is some stuff just feels really wierd. if the scv was a girl? lol that would be wtf. imagine 50 of them.....all women. lol. this is why the girl in every game is gonna be a highly specialized, character. a sleak, sneaky, sexy and flexible highly specialzed character

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Well, the current frontline infantry in SC2 all consist of 'tough guy' stereotypes. The Marine will likely act tough, the Reaper's psychotic and the Marauder's a scary, black man.

Mr.peasant those links kind of sucked. Anime? Riiight girls in anime in armor. I hardly see that fitting over into the SC2 world. The sisters of battle... wtf amazon brigade? Seriously thats just a whole different fail within its self.

Girls in armor can work it's just they still have to fit in. A marauder? Dosnt exactly make me think of a huge bulky girl. Im thinking of some big tough ass guy.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

Mr.peasant those links kind of sucked. Anime? Riiight girls in anime in armor. I hardly see that fitting over into the SC2 world. The sisters of battle... wtf amazon brigade? Seriously thats just a whole different fail within its self.

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Until you realize that Starcraft, and Blizzard in general, is highly influenced by anime. Just sticking to Starcraft, there's the Goliath, Alan Schezar, Viking, Thor, Battlecruiser (Yamato Cannon) and SC: Nova's art style after Blizzard took over development to name a few.

I really dont see its anime. So they have mechs and big ships. So what? that dosnt exactly scream ANIME! I meen it's sci fi stuff.

I see her possibly being like the Big Mama of a bike gang. She's a lady who's tough as nails and handles those boys on a daily basis. You can't talk sass with her or you'll get your ass beat.

Though like I mentioned earlier, the archetype would fit more on a one-off character, like how the Jamaican ghost dude doesn't represent all ghosts.

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Originally Posted by Warsaw

I really dont see its anime. So they have mechs and big ships. So what? that dosnt exactly scream ANIME! I meen it's sci fi stuff.

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Actually:

Alan Schezar: Named after Allen Schezar from Vision of Escaflowne, who also pilots a mecha.
Viking: Obviously inspired from Transformers. It even references this in its quotes.
Thor: Two words ~ Giant mecha
Battlecruiser: The voice is a homage to a character from Robotech.
Yamato Cannon: A reference to Space Battleship Yamato which has a similar weapon located at the ship's bow.

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They're rednecks in space!!

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Name me some redneck units.

I really hope for one they keep redneck units out of the game. There voices get old REALLY fast. Red neck jokes and anything red neck related is not funny!

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Name me some redneck units.

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Edmund Duke. Arcturus Mengsk. Jim Reynor.

SCVs. Vultures.

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Red neck jokes and anything red neck related is not funny!

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That's StarCraft. That's what they made. It is the central conceit of the Terrans. Like it or hate it.

The whole Redneck thing stems from the influence of Alien. The people in that setting were typical truckers. Starcraft's entire setting is approached similarly, and the kind of people populating the Koprulu sector aren't Starfleet officers or Imperial Stormtroopers. They're resocced criminals and descendants of criminals. It's supposed to be a 'wild west' of sorts.

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The whole Redneck thing stems from the influence of Alien.

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Which shows that Blizzard wasn't paying attention when they were watching that movie. The point was that space travel was to the point where the average person was doing it. Not that space should be the domain of backwater hicks.

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Originally Posted by Triceron

The whole Redneck thing stems from the influence of Alien. The people in that setting were typical truckers. Starcraft's entire setting is approached similarly, and the kind of people populating the Koprulu sector aren't Starfleet officers or Imperial Stormtroopers. They're resocced criminals and descendants of criminals. It's supposed to be a 'wild west' of sorts.

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Regardless, it still subverts the techno-babble-spouting, polyblend-unitard-wearing spacemen that tend to populate Star Trek and most other sci-fi settings.

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Edmund Duke. Arcturus Mengsk. Jim Reynor.

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I said units not main characters. And for your information, having a southern accent doesn't automatically relate to being a redneck.

I'd say the only redneck from that list is Edmund Duke. Raynor doesn't even act like a redneck.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

I said units not main characters. And for your information, having a southern accent doesn't automatically relate to being a redneck.

I'd say the only redneck from that list is Edmund Duke. Raynor doesn't even act like a redneck.

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Well, if you don't believe that Starcraft's Terrans are rednecks in space, I offer you this as evidence. During the Q&A session (specifically between 6.05 - 9.03), when asked about the influences affecting Starcraft, etc., Chris Metzen himself specifically said the phrase 'rednecks in space' a couple times. That's right; not Karune, not a Blizzard rep, but the lore master himself.

Yes, but the lore master himself doesn't know what he's talking about. He may have been inspired by the idea, and there may be some few rednecks shown, but hardly any of the main characters of the SC universe are rednecks, and definitely not the Terran army in the game.

I've read the books as well, and I can't say there are many rednecks in any of em if any.

Read the frontline Volumes, can't say I saw a single redneck in them.

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Yes, but the lore master himself doesn't know what he's talking about.

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Well, since it's his universe, I'm going to have to go with his interpretation of it (silly though it is).

Watch any of the SC cinematics. Hell even the VERY FIRST teaser Starcraft cinematic with the ship being blown by the Protoss Mothership had rednecks in it.

You can't just hide behind the 'units aren't redneck' argument. This is all part of the same universe.

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Watch any of the SC cinematics. Hell even the VERY FIRST teaser Starcraft cinematic with the ship being blown by the Protoss Mothership had rednecks in it.

You can't just hide behind the 'units aren't redneck' argument. This is all part of the same universe.

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Your point? There are some rednecks I can't deny, but to claim the Terran race is just rednecks in space is retarded. I can do the same thing you just did, I'll point out EVERY SINGLE NON UNIT CHARACTER IN THE UNIVERSE THAT ISN'T A REDNECK. I'm sure I'll vastly outnumber the amount of people you'll find that are rednecks.

And another SCLegacy thread becomes polarized to the point of ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Your point? There are some rednecks I can't deny, but to claim the Terran race is just rednecks in space is retarded. I can do the same thing you just did, I'll point out EVERY SINGLE NON UNIT CHARACTER IN THE UNIVERSE THAT ISN'T A REDNECK. I'm sure I'll vastly outnumber the amount of people you'll find that are rednecks.

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So, you're ignoring the fact that the creators of the game intended, and still intends, that the Terrans are in fact rednecks in space? And that the people in attendance understood and approved of said comment? If the creator sees it that way and there are audience members who also see it that way, then it is canon beyond dispute.

Seriously, what you're doing is comparable to those Harry Potter fanatics who think Draco is some anti-hero and are ignoring when the creator says outright it isn't so.

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So, you're ignoring the fact that the creators of the game intended, and still intends, that the Terrans are in fact rednecks in space? And that the people in attendance understood and approved of said comment? If the creator sees it that way and there are audience members who also see it that way, then it is canon beyond dispute.

Seriously, what you're doing is comparable to those Harry Potter fanatics who think Draco is some anti-hero and are ignoring when the creator says outright it isn't so.

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They can say what they want, I hardly consider the thousands of resocialized marines rednecks, I don't know about you.

Quit bringing up the "the game creator said so!!111" argument, it's useless. Until you can provide facts of the Terrans being rednecks in space besides the couple examples or cinematics, all that has been said is that the guy wanted rednecks in space. Well it didn't happen, none of the authorized book writers made rednecks in space, none of the game units are rednecks in space. None of them act like rednecks in space when they talk. It's a stupid bandwagon that you just jumped on.

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Until you can provide facts of the Terrans being rednecks in space besides the couple examples or cinematics

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Oh, I see. So you're simply dismissing the evidence provided as not being "enough" for you. I'm sorry, but ignoring the facts is not a way of knowing things.

I'm sorry, do you want me to point you out to both the Frontline volumes, every single unit in the game, and ALL the books just to prove my point?

Hmm, I swear when I was watching the SC:Ghost trailer, I didn't just see an army of rednecks fighting the Zerg.

You guys pointed out what, two examples? Maybe it was Metzan's original vision, after all that cinematic in SC1 had what was supposed to be a mothership, that was a long long time ago. It's different now.

I'm going to reform my opinion. SC1 did have a lot of Red necks in space feel I hope how ever in sc2 they lighten the load on it. It just... ehhh. I didnt really care for all the red neck cinematics.

"ssaarge I think you hit a zeeerg" Or w/e it was. rednecks are not amusing.

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I'm going to reform my opinion. SC1 did have a lot of Red necks in space feel I hope how ever in sc2 they lighten the load on it. It just... ehhh. I didnt really care for all the red neck cinematics.

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Are you kidding me? SC1 didn't have a lot of rednecks. Jumping on the bandwagon I see? I still have yet to see anyone provide definitive evidence besides showing the odd redneck around.

SC2 has more rednecks, such as the Thor. But that unit is just thrown in and terrible anyway.

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"ssaarge I think you hit a zeeerg" Or w/e it was. rednecks are not amusing.

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You're right, it wasn't amusing.

I think Sc1 had a lot of rednecks. More then I like anyway. As far as Im concerned 1 redneck is to many.

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every single unit in the game

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Except for the SCV, Vulture, and arguably Raynor.

And the game is what is important. As far as the game is concerned, the vast majority of people we see are stereotypical rednecks. That various other writers don't properly depict this is irrelevant next to the fact that the world as presented by the game seems to be dominated by rednecks.

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Except for the SCV, Vulture, and arguably Raynor.

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The vulture isn't a redneck. Do you even know what a redneck is? And no, Raynor isn't a redneck.

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And the game is what is important.

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Exactly, I just don't see how you can be so blind about it.

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As far as the game is concerned, the vast majority of people we see are stereotypical rednecks. That various other writers don't properly depict this is irrelevant next to the fact that the world as presented by the game seems to be dominated by rednecks.

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Um, like Edmund Duke? Good job that's 1 character.

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The vulture isn't a redneck. Do you even know what a redneck is? And no, Raynor isn't a redneck.

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There are many kinds of rednecks. Not all of them are the stereotypical "Cletus-from-Simpsons" style. And the Vulture does fall into this category.

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Um, like Edmund Duke? Good job that's 1 character.

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You also must add all of the Terrans in every cutscene. That's a good 10+ characters. Oh that's right, I forgot. They don't count because counting them would damage your case.

A good 10+ characters my ass. Name them all then.

The vulture fits the stereotypical gangster badass. You're just an idiot.

Let's see, I'll give you the moronic marine from the Amerigo cinematic, and then there's those 2 from the Starcraft 1 intro, and then there's Lester and Sarge and the outpost guy that got pwned.

That's 6, including Edmund duke is 7.

Now let's count everyone who isn't a redneck in the cinematics. There's Gerard Dugalle, Stukov, Mr. Malmsteen, the marine from the BW intro, the second marine from the BW intro, the Sarge from The Ambush, the other marines from the Amerigo, and everyone from the ending cinatic The Inauguration. There's all the marines, Nova, the sarge and the lieutenant from the MUCH more recent SC: Ghost trailer, and then there's Tychus Findlay from SC2.

Oh look, there are easily more people who aren't rednecks than there are. You're truly a silly man if the statement "rednecks in space" means less than 1% of the Terran population consisting of Rednecks to you.

And I highly doubt we'll see a single redneck in any cinematic for SC2.

You don't have a case. All you have are a couple of outdated cinematics that aren't even accurate to the SC universe. I have pretty much all the current lore standing for my case and none of the new stories have shown a single redneck.

Except for the utmost recent stories which I haven't read yet, maybe Kimera might like to point out if there are rednecks in the SC: Comic?

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

The vulture fits the stereotypical gangster badass. You're just an idiot.

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Actually, the Vulture was more of a biker; who can also be categorized as a redneck.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Now let's count everyone who isn't a redneck in the cinematics. There's Gerard Dugalle, Stukov, Mr. Malmsteen, the marine from the BW intro, the second marine from the BW intro, the Sarge from The Ambush, the other marines from the Amerigo, and everyone from the ending cinatic The Inauguration. There's all the marines, Nova, the sarge and the lieutenant from the MUCH more recent SC: Ghost trailer, and then there's Tychus Findlay from SC2.

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Wow, congratulations on the three highlighted. They're not Terrans! They're UED. Also, the Sarge from the Ambush was a redneck, as was the sentry in that cinematic. The same goes for a few of the Marines in the Amerigo cinematic.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

You don't have a case. All you have are a couple of outdated cinematics that aren't even accurate to the SC universe. I have pretty much all the current lore standing for my case and none of the new stories have shown a single redneck.

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Our case rests on the word of God, which in this case form a united opinion that people have embraced. This is backed up by evidence within the game that you continue to ignore.

I don't know what your defintion of redneck is, but one from Wikipedia describes it as a person, often Caucasian, of lower socio-economic status and typically, though not exclusively, from the Southern United States. They are generally seen as uneducated and/or ignorant but resourceful enough to outwit others. Rednecks are often stereotypically depicted as beer-guzzling, gun-loving smokers and are usually associated with the Confederate flag along with a love for vulgar language (reference: here). In my opinion, a lot of Terran (not UED humans) fall into this category.

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Originally Posted by warrior6

she isn't bad looking since she is kinda old. but she is def sleak, sneaky and flexible.

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She's also tough as nails, fights using a fighting style that's very similar to Judo (all grabs and holds), and I don't get 'feminine'. She looks like Cate Blanchett and is realistically muscular for a woman. (i.e. not a body-builder, but athletic) She's certainly not 'pretty' or 'dainty'. And she's not 'flexible' (what do you even mean by that?)

Same goes for Big Mama and Olga in the same series.

None of them are ugly, but they don't have to be ugly to be physically powerful. And being attractive doesn't automatically make somebody 'sexy'.

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kerrigan is def super feminine. she is sleak, flexible, sneaky and trying to be made increasingly sexy.

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And yeah, I wouldn't call Kerrigan 'feminine' either. But that also depends on the artists interpretation. Metzen's drawings of Kerrigan for example are much less curvaceous, and I mean if you look at the cover of "Uprising" you can hardly tell that's a woman.

SC2-art-wise, though... hmm... I wouldn't say she's looked particularly feminine. With the wings and the body-armor and all.

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you gotta look at things in terms of ratios man. how many men are on the frontlines infantry in most country's armies compared to women.

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Why does that matter in a fictional universe set hundreds of years in the future...?

This is art. Art should reflect some semblance reality and the artists' imagination, and the reality is that there are women in the military and armed forces. And the reality is that women are a major part of human society and always have been.

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again...people expect starcraft 2 to somehow break the social barriers society has created to reflect our society instead of what human universal society has always been like. men soldiers outnumber women soldiers probably with a higher ratio than like 10:1. this is why they are specialized.

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That's not why they're specialized. They're specialized because it's 'safe'. In the media and art it's 'okay' for women to play the roles of mothers or healers or to be sexy assassins in skin-tight latex. Nobody takes issue with that. It's not reflecting reality or whatever, it's just what the public at large is okay with and it's that's what Blizzard is reflecting.

And I really don't expect Blizzard to break social barriers, but I expect them to break a few artistic barriers in video games, and what roles women are allowed to play, and quite frankly if the Banshee for example, is no longer female, then they're just going backwards, not forwards.

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Wow, congratulations on the three highlighted. They're not Terrans! They're UED. Also, the Sarge from the Ambush was a redneck, as was the sentry in that cinematic. The same goes for a few of the Marines in the Amerigo cinematic.

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Terrans means humans from Earth, are you saying they're not humans that came from Earth? Good job, you just classified people from Earth, and Terrans as different things. Talk about fail. The Sarge from the Ambush a redneck? And what gave you that idea?

And the same for the Amerigo marines? Right, you can say they're rednecks when they didn't say a single word except for that one marine.

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Our case rests on the word of God, which in this case form a united opinion that people have embraced. This is backed up by evidence within the game that you continue to ignore.

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That people have embraced? I'd like to see your survey on that. And you're ignoring the dozens of other things I've pointed out, such as the 99% of the other Terrans not being rednecks.

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I don't know what your defintion of redneck is, but one from Wikipedia describes it as a person, often Caucasian, of lower socio-economic status and typically, though not exclusively, from the Southern United States. They are generally seen as uneducated and/or ignorant but resourceful enough to outwit others. Rednecks are often stereotypically depicted as beer-guzzling, gun-loving smokers and are usually associated with the Confederate flag along with a love for vulgar language (reference: here). In my opinion, a lot of Terran (not UED humans) fall into this category.

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Alright sure, let's say the confederates are a bunch of rednecks. Prove that since the Dominion has taken over, that it's still rednecks in space. Because as far as I'm concerned, most of your case lies with the confederates, and once again outdated cinematics. You think there's a difference between Terran and Earthlings, and all your examples are of when the confederates were in power.

And as for your case resting with god, god can say anything but it won't mean anything if he doesn't DO anything. Go join a catholic church and you can listen to the word of god all you want there.

Woow. Bashing god now. I like where this is going. :D

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once again outdated cinematics

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That are in the game under discussion. I thought that we agreed that the final arbiter was the game. Oh, that's right; it doesn't support your side, so it doesn't count.

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Prove that since the Dominion has taken over, that it's still rednecks in space.

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Are you saying that the Dominion murdered every civilian in the old Confederacy? They took out Tarsonis via the Zerg, but they didn't kill off every Confederate.

See, our side doesn't have to prove their position. You're making the claim that smacks in the face of what the primary material suggests, as well as what the creator of that material has stated. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Edit: Actually nvm, I'm tired about arguing on this subject. If you guys think they're nothing but a bunch of rednecks in space, fine with me.