Says who? You're basically saying that unless you can see that it's female, it must be male. As though maleness were the default state or something.Quote:
For a unit to be female it needs to have a bunch of characteristics.
Printable View
Says who? You're basically saying that unless you can see that it's female, it must be male. As though maleness were the default state or something.Quote:
For a unit to be female it needs to have a bunch of characteristics.
I've never in my life seen a black redneck.Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowToeSocks
Let wikipedia be the guide :)
Redneck refers to a person who is stereotypically Caucasian (i.e. white) and is of lower socio-economic status in the United States and Canada.
This is why white people aren't called "niggas", they are called wiggas. So you could make a new word for blacks in regard to redneck.
Wait, isn't that the definition of 'White Trash'? And I know there's a difference between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nottoway
WTF. No.
Selendis? What about Infested Kerrigan?Quote:
I was serious, i actually want a tough female unit for a change, and not some cheesy barbie girl, as they are always portraited, is that so hard to understand
The reason males were always in war was because they are stronger than females. In the future, and even now in modern times, with the armour and weapons that soldiers are given it doesnt matter if the soldier is male or female as the equipment does all the work and not the soldier themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigurd
*Removed quote of Zigurd*
Really it could be argued its by how males and females are raised as kids. Im in Criminology and theres theories about why males commit more crime than females.. I wont go into it though.. too lazy to rant..
Point is, its all subjective on the individual
We are talking about gender characteristics, specific cases are not important. I study neuropsychology.Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowToeSocks
My opinion > yours.
Mine is based in medical journals studying personality traits as well as temperament traits. Also medical journals researching genetic predispositions towards certain activities.
Did I just see someone bring up "nature vs nurture"?
*Removed quote of Zigurd*
Yet, many countries allow women to serve in the frontlines all the same, including infantry, armor and submarines. What do you make of that?
Furthermore, this is science fiction. And already in lore, it's a known fact that the Terrans do not discriminate according to gender. Therefore, why not make Marauders females since the guys get Marines and Reapers?
At the risk of interacting at all with Zigurd after that grade A #@$%@^# of a post....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
But really its not even about all the counter examples, or the fact that this is a game or that small people shouldnt be allowed in the army by your logic or that your entire view of how free soicities work is wrong. Its about how you could possible think that being that offensive would score you any points with us.
Not unless you start citing actual peer-reviewed articles in support of your positions.Quote:
We are talking about gender characteristics, specific cases are not important. I study neuropsychology.
My opinion > yours.
And considering your *removed* nonsense, I'm fairly certain that people actually in college studying neuropsychology display more maturity than that.
That was cheap and ill-fitting and forced. (like a...I'll stop). I apologize.
Anywho, this whole thing is purely subjective. Saying war is "male," has a lot of truths to it. Men generally fight in them. This, however, is irrevelant. Your argument for the Marauder being female has been "it feels male." Ok, so your studies in neuropyschology have to do with...? Nothing. Your argument is as subjective as anyone else's.
This isn't really about equality. I mean, if it was, people would be asking for an equal share of woman/man. Same w/ the races. The point is, the "tough girl as a foot soldier" is a popular stereotype. "Aliens", for instance demonstrates that well. A Female maruder could work easily. And this whole "the unit has to look female" thing? That smells like fecal matter of the bovine variety.
-------------
By the way, Big Bertha...awesome shot. Though, as some hardcore Marvel heads might now, that's actually a transformation from a model's body. Great Lakes Avengers Assemble!!
i agree. the marauder is meant to be played as a man, but i think that they should have female ghosts or pilots, but not a marauder, or a reaper either
Again brosephs, it's about gender, not specific characters. I have two arguments in this thread, one is that war is male in general, the other one is that female units need to fit perfectly in order to be worth being female.
All of you:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2lsitds.jpg
Good point, I also think a woman could be a cool design for a unit like the marauder or another attacking unit. But this bring back the "lore" factor and keep in mind that this all started with tribal wars in a far far away galaxy with armies that started with criminals and stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfecttear
I doubt the majority of the men back there in Krupulu are gentlemen. They probably had problem with having girls has medics at start anyway, now a marauder. That hurts some pumped up stimed marine pride.
Or alternatively, why muddle the lore up anyway? Did the lore specify why Dropships, Medics and Valkyries were female? I don't recall anything of such. Same can/should be applied to other female units. Unless of course, there's a reason a certain unit type would be exclusively female.
These arguments are intertwined. The latter only makes sense in the presence of the former. Unless the default state is expected to be male, the latter argument makes no sense. And the former claim is... let's just say dubious.Quote:
I have two arguments in this thread, one is that war is male in general, the other one is that female units need to fit perfectly in order to be worth being female.
Here are the things I like about a female Marauder:
1: It's unexpected. That's always a plus. There's nothing more boring and dull than doing everything exactly as everyone expects.
2: It provides a different timbre of voice for a unit that's probably going to be a mainstay of various Terran strategies.
3: It gives a greater sense of the totality of the conflict among the Terrans. They need warm bodies in machines of war, chivalry be damned.
Honestly, I think the game is more enjoyable with stereotypes enforced. Games have always featured stereotypes, whether it be by gender or even ethnicity. It would just feel absolutely wrong to give units genders that don't fit the name and nature of the unit. This isn't really about military gender ratios -- it's about what you think of when you see the unit and think of the name. Here's what I see:
SCV -- young blue-collar newbie white or black dude (SC1 SCV)
Marine -- tough middle-aged redneck white man (SC1 marine)
Reaper -- criminal psychopath white male
Ghost -- mysterious cocky white guy (a creepy "Duke Nukem" -- SC1 Ghost)
Marauder -- 150kg totally ripped deep-voiced black dude (SC1 Firebat)
Hellion -- young crazy redneck red-haired white chick
Siege Tank -- tough drill-sergeant-type white dude (SC1 Siege Tank)
Thor -- Schwarzenegger
Banshee -- tough Russian accented woman (SC1 Valkyrie)
Medivac -- Business as usual transport pilot white female (SC1 Dropship)
Viking -- cocky stuck-up pilot white guy (SC1 Wraith)
Raven -- smooth/sexy-voiced but serious black chick
Battlecruiser -- Russian male captain-type (SC1 BC)
Female marauder = Buff Bikini model... Ya no thx. Good idea though, but it just doesnt quite fit people's perspectives.
I couldn't disagree more. All reinforcing stereotypes does is act as yet another reminder of the fact that SC isn't very original.Quote:
I think the game is more enjoyable with stereotypes enforced
If I were to completely ignore the SC1 voices, look at the SC1 units and decide what voices they should have based on the unit and abilities?Quote:
SCV -- young blue-collar newbie white or black dude (SC1 SCV)
Marine -- tough middle-aged redneck white man (SC1 marine)
Reaper -- criminal psychopath white male
Ghost -- mysterious cocky white guy (a creepy "Duke Nukem" -- SC1 Ghost)
Marauder -- 150kg totally ripped deep-voiced black dude (SC1 Firebat)
Hellion -- young crazy redneck red-haired white chick
Siege Tank -- tough drill-sergeant-type white dude (SC1 Siege Tank)
Thor -- Schwarzenegger
Banshee -- tough Russian accented woman (SC1 Valkyrie)
Medivac -- Business as usual transport pilot white female (SC1 Dropship)
Viking -- cocky stuck-up pilot white guy (SC1 Wraith)
Raven -- smooth/sexy-voiced but serious black chick
Battlecruiser -- Russian male captain-type (SC1 BC)
SCV: Bored worker. Possibly an office worker-type voice. Dilbert.
Marine: Well, a Marine. Disciplined, professional, lethal.
Medic: Something that shows devotion to keeping others alive.
Firebat: Crazed pyromanic.
Ghost: Cold, calculating killer. No snide remarks, no style, no flash.
Vulture: Intense and excitable.
Goliath: Someone who's very precise and orderly.
Siege Tank: Armored Cavalryman. Imagine a guy riding the tank into battle.
Wraith: Cold, detatched pilot. Standard Chuck Yeager.
Dropship: Somewhat wild (you have to be to fly one of those into a hot LZ) and crazed.
Valkyrie: Crazed gunman (flurry of missiles).
Science Vessel: Aloof and entirely disinterested. If you've ever seen ExoSquad, Prof. Algernon would be the perfect voice.
Battlecruiser: Calm, commanding, and well-grounded. Should be able to speak with authority.
And I still don't know how you and Blizzard get "drill sergeant" out of a Tank pilot. Sergeants lead squads of infantry in the field. Being a "Sergeant of One" in a Tank doesn't make sense.
How about some reinforced stereotypes and some new and innovative charactors?
Hey, you know what's really original?
divy4o85gy6ybex98476vb9648x7yeof487y5xoneiurhfot 987ge640og987xyeof4987fyxoj987436gsuis4eyo8vs7ye
Is it serving a purpose?
No.
Is it useful?
No.
Is it cool?
No.
Is it interesting?
No.
originality != good
Of course -- that's why I suggested that the Hellion should have a crazy chick driver and that the Raven should have a black female pilot. SC doesn't even have ONE black female character in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Is it a good example that helps illustrate your point?
No.
EXACTLY xDQuote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
I am getting out of this thread before it gets people arguing with each other
oh too late
lolz, like 7 pages too lateQuote:
Originally Posted by RainbowToeSocks
No way, it should be a big black guy, that's a classic.
No latino love?
Hellion = Hispanic. Definitely.
Anywho, Noobonic is right that unit portraits are stereotypes, at least in SC1. But why the hell is there only one stereotype for each unit? I can see a Marauder as a tough, cigar smoking white man, a big buff black guy, a G.I. Jane, etc. Honestly, I feel the main requirement should be tough.
Open your minds people! There are bounds of stereotypes! I'm asking you to explore your prejudices!
And Zigurd? Your second point hasn't been defended yet, other than the numerous restatements of it. Try harder.
Actually, if you think about it, it doesn't even have to be the most obvious one. I mean, the Terrans themselves are one huge subversion (rednecks in space?!). Based on this precedence, going with something that while still fitting, comes with a twist is perfectly in line with the Terran atmosphere.
Blizzard might just make a female portrait for each of many units just to spite nonbelievers!
-Psi
I'd like to see some female units for Terran but I don't think the Marauder is the right unit for that.
Viking, Banshee, Hellion, Nighthawk
^ Those are the units I can see best fitting as female-portrait units.
But really, this is a male dominated game, I expect maybe 2-3 female units for terran at most, just like SC1.
What about female protoss?
there should be an option to make your entire army male/female. only this will appease the screaming feminists.
and call me what you will but women represent sleak, sneaky, sexy and flexible. they dont fit well on units like marauders/marines thors or siege tanks. i'm saying if they HAD to choose what gender these units would permanently be, i can gurantee you that 75% of people would say male. i find it hilarious that starcraft now has to break social barriers as well. they should change the sc2 teaser cinematic to a big ugly muscular dyke being prepped into marine armor.
I'm not going to call you anything, but these things only exist in your mind.Quote:
and call me what you will but women represent sleak, sneaky, sexy and flexible. they dont fit well on units like marauders/marines thors or siege tanks
Like seriously, ever heard of the Boss? She's certainly not sleak or sexy. She's tough without being too sensual or sexual and without being 'butch'.
The same goes for Ashley. Or hell, even Raszagal, if you want a StarCraft example. Even Kerrigan isn't just 'sleak, flexible and sexy' especially when she's infested (well... Metzen's drawings of her anyway... Samwise's are a bit more... ehem... risque.)
Look, I'm not saying that there needs to be 50/50 equality completely arbitrarily, just for the sake of 'feminism'. But seeing female units that don't just exist as bimbos like the medic, or in support roles like the dropship would be nice... sure there was the Valkyrie, but the Valkyrie was pretty useless, and it's SC2 equivalent (the Banshee) has apparently been transformed into a man, so that's out.
In general, what I'd like to see, for each race (er.. .well the Protoss and Terran anyway) is at least 35% of the units being female (where appropriate), and at least 35% of the units being male. And then Blizzard deciding what the other percent should be based off of what is most appropriate. And not based off of archaic gender roles like 'women can only be medics' or 'women can only be sexy agents'.
Oh, and none of this is to say that I want the Marauder to be female. While that would be cool, I actually really like the Marauder's portrait as is. And I realize that my 35% f/35% m/other is completely prepostorous and is not something Blizzard will do in StarCraft 2.
Agree with you totally. Blizzard should at least provide us some female and other unique portraits for Scumedit custom units/heroes reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfecttear
Well what about WoL Raynor's Raiders Cobras, Firebats, Goliath, Vulture, Wraith, Medic portraits or most of their models yet. We haven't seen them. (Minus Vulture on SC wiki. Raynor better be using it!) Medic of course, Cobra maybe, the rest likely male.
Actually, what you said there is more or less the entire basis of my argument; it subverts people's expectations and is therefore funny. Like rednecks in space!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by warrior6
my understanding was that women are actually peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by warrior6
I think more female units need to be involved for sure, but they need to be placed appropriately into the game. Sure, females should take a step forward and not be so girly girl, only being medics and transporters - highly discriminatory - and its fair enough some people want it. But only certain units would work out as female. I like female ghosts? Hahaha.
she isn't bad looking since she is kinda old. but she is def sleak, sneaky and flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
kerrigan is def super feminine. she is sleak, flexible, sneaky and trying to be made increasingly sexy.Quote:
The same goes for Ashley. Or hell, even Raszagal, if you want a StarCraft example. Even Kerrigan isn't just 'sleak, flexible and sexy' especially when she's infested (well... Metzen's drawings of her anyway... Samwise's are a bit more... ehem... risque.)
you gotta look at things in terms of ratios man. how many men are on the frontlines infantry in most country's armies compared to women. how many men are tank drivers, pilots and battleship captains and fleet admirals compared to women? i'm pretty sure that the case in the starcraft universe is somewhat similar. this is why the women are mostly in highly specialized roles. ones that usually are somewhat covert or support units.Quote:
Look, I'm not saying that there needs to be 50/50 equality completely arbitrarily, just for the sake of 'feminism'. But seeing female units that don't just exist as bimbos like the medic, or in support roles like the dropship would be nice... sure there was the Valkyrie, but the Valkyrie was pretty useless, and it's SC2 equivalent (the Banshee) has apparently been transformed into a man, so that's out.
again...people expect starcraft 2 to somehow break the social barriers society has created to reflect our society instead of what human universal society has always been like. men soldiers outnumber women soldiers probably with a higher ratio than like 10:1. this is why they are specialized.Quote:
In general, what I'd like to see, for each race (er.. .well the Protoss and Terran anyway) is at least 35% of the units being female (where appropriate), and at least 35% of the units being male. And then Blizzard deciding what the other percent should be based off of what is most appropriate. And not based off of archaic gender roles like 'women can only be medics' or 'women can only be sexy agents'.
and i said they weren't?Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock