colossi thermal lances

ah... well... i'd rather make it short...
from all the shoutcasts, vids and livestreams i've seen, people usually (if not always) don't go for colossi without the extended range, for all the right reasons i'd say...
but it seems to me that colossus are far to fragile and easy to kill, mostly due to them being vulnerable to everything...

ah... i'm babbling...

would any of you like the idea of colossi already starting off with the added range to a total of 9 without needing to research or is that an idiotic idea...?

seems to me that they die immediately otherwise

IMO, upgrades should be to make lower tier units more useful as the game progresses into higher tiers with stronger units. Giving tier 3 units upgrades is just silly. For example, the Carrier's increased interceptor attack speed upgrade. If the meta-game shows everyone is getting the Colossus upgrade all the time and never using Colossi without it, it stands to reason they might as well just include the upgrade as an inherent part of the unit and fix its stats to revolve around the saved money.

Of course, that's just how I would design the game. Blizzard obviously prefers a different approach.

if the colossi had the range from start then each race be forced to get the counter which would be air
but the best thing is propably choros forged

It reminds me of High Templars in SC:BW, where they had absolutely no non-researched skills except for the Archon Warp. And we all know HTs were used almost exclusively for the Psionic Storm. You didn't even get Hallucination, without research, and no one even really used that. :p

The upgrade is very good, as the Colossus is easy to kill and very expensive. You want it to be as farther away from the enemy as possible.

I think they make this kind of upgrades to delay the full power of a unit a little more than T3. Take it as T3.5.

Well one of the problems with some units and upgrades is that upgrades can make some units so much more powerful in the late game. Plus Collosus is a terrible kiter at 7 range. Its definitely worth the minerals and gas

Colossus starts at 6 (not 7) and the upgrade puts it to 9, fyi.

The upgrade is about timing. Say you can get collossi by 8mn by using a standard build, well you'd only have collossi w/ range at the 9mn mark or whatever. That makes a huge difference in terms of gameplay.

Collossi aren't useless without the range, they just have to be used with much more caution and more strategically. They can drastically help your army fight off a ling/bling heavy force for example, or be used to harass a cliffed expansion. However, against a response like hydralisks/marauders, collossi won't do well at all without the range (which is normal).

Though, again, I agree that unless you don't intend on making any more collossi, you should ALWAYS get the upgrade since they become so awesome, but as I said, it's about timing.

Making the robo build more slowly would delay all robo units. Making the collo build more slowly would make getting critical mass even harder, which isn't blizzard's goal here (good thing imo). Nerfing/buffing the unit and its cost would change the whole timing idea, which is a good concept that should be kept. Making the support bay build more slowly would affect all upgrades.

Basically, I don't have anything against high tier units requiring upgrades to become more potent, as long as they aren't completely and utterly useless before the upgrade, which obviously isn't the case here.
Upgrades aren't only about making a T1 unit viable at T2 and then T3, otherwise you'd never bother teching up. You'd just upgrade your existing units. More timing opportunities is a good thing. It adds depth.

PS: making an OP with good arguments isn't a bad thing... as long as you're saying relevant stuff you shouldn't worry about exceeding 6 lines... ;)

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

IMO, upgrades should be to make lower tier units more useful as the game progresses into higher tiers with stronger units. Giving tier 3 units upgrades is just silly. For example, the Carrier's increased interceptor attack speed upgrade. If the meta-game shows everyone is getting the Colossus upgrade all the time and never using Colossi without it, it stands to reason they might as well just include the upgrade as an inherent part of the unit and fix its stats to revolve around the saved money.

Of course, that's just how I would design the game. Blizzard obviously prefers a different approach.

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The Colossus upgrade is there specifically to make early-game units viable for longer. Colossi are so powerful that there needs to be that little extra bit of investment necessary to use them at their full potential.

C'mon Demo - I thought you knew better than that >_<

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GRUNT

The Colossus upgrade is there specifically to make early-game units viable for longer. Colossi are so powerful that there needs to be that little extra bit of investment necessary to use them at their full potential.

C'mon Demo - I thought you knew better than that >_<

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Increasing/Reducing the Colossus' damage/HP/cost/speed/build timeetc. would achieve the same results as having an upgrade for it now. There are many ways to balance a unit. Blizzard just likes the "lets give everything an upgrade or two" idea.