Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wankey
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Starcraft 1 was crap when it was released. The only cool thing about it was the very unique angle it was taking by making 3 sides. It was on the same level as Total Annihilation, Age of Empires and the likes.
Only until BroodWar did the game become complete and eSports started to pick up. This bickering is completely pointless. You're saying Starcraft 2, in its beta form should be as good as a game that's withstood 10 years of meta gaming by countless millions.
Get over yourself.
I think what he says is wrong, as you said, but the idea is valid. SC1 was agame created from nothing. COmpletely new.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SC2 is completely based on that game, about 50% of the units returned, or were slightly modified, technology is better (10+ years better), comunication between developer and gamer is way way WAAAAAY better, the game has been under development for at least 5 years, and the amount of players in BETA is also WAAAAY higher than SC1 Beta had... and I could go on and on.
So, its our complete right, as people that will spend money on this game (or already spent on it, by buying equipment to play it) and that know all those things I said, to ask for goddam perfect game.
Comparing SC1 at release to SC2 at release is out of place, like Earth-Pluto out of place.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Judging by the recent surge in ideas such as this and Perfecttear's, clearly there's a secret drug trade on this forum that I don't know about. I will be contacting the proper (moderating) authorities.
Just kidding. But, seriously, relax on the craziness please :D Zerg can be fixed with a lot less than a lot of people think in my opinion.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KadajSouba
I think what he says is wrong, as you said, but the idea is valid. SC1 was agame created from nothing. COmpletely new.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SC2 is completely based on that game, about 50% of the units returned, or were slightly modified, technology is better (10+ years better), comunication between developer and gamer is way way WAAAAAY better, the game has been under development for at least 5 years, and the amount of players in BETA is also WAAAAY higher than SC1 Beta had... and I could go on and on.
So, its our complete right, as people that will spend money on this game (or already spent on it, by buying equipment to play it) and that know all those things I said, to ask for goddam perfect game.
Comparing SC1 at release to SC2 at release is out of place, like Earth-Pluto out of place.
Yeah, but Browder wasn't there. And WoW haven't even been conceived yet.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
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Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
Yeah, but Browder wasn't there.
Ok... Im speechless...
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KadajSouba
Ok... Im speechless...
It's okay. Real men don't has speech. And don't rebuilt their base as well.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
It's okay. Real men don't has speech. And don't rebuilt their base as well.
Holy shit... im speechless again... :eek:
Re: Brainlings: Redoing Zerg so Lurkers can come back
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Originally Posted by
ChAoS
Half-life anyone? just because bliz and half life are owned by the same company
Valve is not owned by Activision Blizzard.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KadajSouba
I think what he says is wrong, as you said, but the idea is valid. SC1 was agame created from nothing. COmpletely new.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SC2 is completely based on that game, about 50% of the units returned, or were slightly modified, technology is better (10+ years better), comunication between developer and gamer is way way WAAAAAY better, the game has been under development for at least 5 years, and the amount of players in BETA is also WAAAAY higher than SC1 Beta had... and I could go on and on.
This is the blasted problem, no-one knew what to expect from SC, but now they've been playing SC for years they want SC2 to be pretty similar, except that it's a new game, not an expansion, so there have to be a fair-few changes, so it'll take people a while (months, maybe years) to accept the new game,because they have to ditch the fact that it isn't going to be exactly the same as the old one.
Quote:
So, its our complete right, as people that will spend money on this game (or already spent on it, by buying equipment to play it) and that know all those things I said, to ask for goddam perfect game.
Except that all they've got left to do now is balance it, which requires a lot of testers, and a fair few map-makers and months of time, and even then, it'll be probably years before the balance is finally down-pat and there's a good selection (dozens, maybe hundreds) of well-balanced maps to compete on.
Saying that, I think there are a few things I wish they'd change, like the Thor (I just don't like the flavour of a huge terran mech, I feel it detracts from the grittiness of the setting), and the Carrier (come on, give us something that's actually interesting, not just a redrawn version of the old unit).
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Well I hope your dreams come true Archer. I'm happy to give the some time to fine tune the game. It's not perfect, but it's very fun. This of course one of those... oh yea. Opinions.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ArcherofAiur
You get over yourself first. Their is no good reason that the success of SC1 shouldnt translate over to SC2. A fan was able to reproduce muta hellion and tank micro with the map editor. Fans were able to come up with the macro mechanics years before Blizzard figured it out.
You dont need to work on a game ten years inorder to implement these kinds of improvements. All it took was fans looking at the game and asking the question "How does this work and why is it good?"
So dont tell me it takes ten years before we can see things like micro in SC2. It doesnt.
If fans can get it right with the map editor, then why do you need Blizzard to make an awesome game? With the editor, someone, anyone, can come along and make the 'perfect' version of SC2 that could be highly supported and played over SC2. The possibilities are there, no?
Fans can adopt a custom map as an official means of play. I have seen this done in many other games. Dawn of War had balance issues, leading to DoWPro, a community-created/supported mod that rebalanced the game to play differently. A brief history of DoW, each expansion brought in its own little 'flavour', causing each iteration to play slightly different than previous versions. DoWPro has been a consistent balance mod that is well supported through the community.
The Warcraft community spawned and supported DOTA. I don't see why a SC2 "Classic" mod can't be created and support it *if* SC2 is as much fail as people are hinting at.
If the game is really as bad as it is, and enough people are asking for SC1 quality mechanics, then that can all be added in and supported by those who want it.
However, I doubt it will need to happen, because SC2 isn't really as bad as we might think. There's still plenty of time to perfect this game.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Triceron
If fans can get it right with the map editor, then why do you need Blizzard to make an awesome game? With the editor, someone, anyone, can come along and make the 'perfect' version of SC2 that could be highly supported and played over SC2. The possibilities are there, no?
Fans can adopt a custom map as an official means of play. I have seen this done in many other games. Dawn of War had balance issues, leading to DoWPro, a community-created/supported mod that rebalanced the game to play differently. A brief history of DoW, each expansion brought in its own little 'flavour', causing each iteration to play slightly different than previous versions. DoWPro has been a consistent balance mod that is well supported through the community.
The Warcraft community spawned and supported DOTA. I don't see why a SC2 "Classic" mod can't be created and support it *if* SC2 is as much fail as people are hinting at.
If the game is really as bad as it is, and enough people are asking for SC1 quality mechanics, then that can all be added in and supported by those who want it.
However, I doubt it will need to happen, because SC2 isn't really as bad as we might think. There's still plenty of time to perfect this game.
It shouldnt have to come to that. The Starcraft community shouldnt have to tell the developers that putting things like macro and micro into the game are good ideas!
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Yeah, what I honestly don't understand is the reasoning behind Blizzard shunning those stuff. It's good for the game, and especially since we are in beta, these things can be modified to fit.
Maybe because they want the A-click stuff balanced first, then add in the micro stuff? But there's no grounds for my hopes here.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Triceron
The Warcraft community spawned and supported DOTA. I don't see why a SC2 "Classic" mod can't be created and support it *if* SC2 is as much fail as people are hinting at.
I think that its really bad if a Mod from the game ends up being more popular than the game itself, dont you think?
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
No, I don't.
Mods can have quicker balancing since patches and updates don't require an official approval process to be released. Mods have the advantage of taking risks with gameplay that can be iterated on. There is no liability in failure, compared to an official company who may be losing hundreds of thousands of dollars for every extra month they spend on balance. There is not as big of a risk in modding compared to creating an official game that has to turn a profit.
Lets face it - What we want to see is a more hardcore game to sink our teeth into. As beta players, we're beyond the 'easy to play' and we want the 'harder to master'. Blizzard will not add more features than they need to in order to maintain balance with what they already have. They are in no position to 'take more risks'. This is simple fact for a game that is to be released 2 months from now.
A mod that involves more micro and more macro is going to aimed at a much more niche audience. SC2 is aimed at ALL audiences. The advantage of having a 'hardcore' mod is that it can be a transitional game for players who have 'mastered' Starcraft 2 and want to try something more challenging.
If a balance mod/hardcore mod was created and officially backed by sites like TL.net, unofficial tourneys and a large enough fanbase, it could satisfy everything for players that Blizzard can not offer. If it's successful enough, who knows? Maybe Blizzard could officially (or unofficially) support it for E-sports.
It's not as much telling Blizzard what we want as much as it is getting what we want for ourselves. They've provided us the tools to do this. We don't need to ask nicely for hand-me-outs. We can make our ideas reality. Theorycraft is in the past - we can put it all to the test.
Re: Brainlings (Fixing Zerg so Lurkers can come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Triceron
If fans can get it right with the map editor, then why do you need Blizzard to make an awesome game? With the editor, someone, anyone, can come along and make the 'perfect' version of SC2 that could be highly supported and played over SC2. The possibilities are there, no?
Fans can adopt a custom map as an official means of play. I have seen this done in many other games. Dawn of War had balance issues, leading to DoWPro, a community-created/supported mod that rebalanced the game to play differently. A brief history of DoW, each expansion brought in its own little 'flavour', causing each iteration to play slightly different than previous versions. DoWPro has been a consistent balance mod that is well supported through the community.
The Warcraft community spawned and supported DOTA. I don't see why a SC2 "Classic" mod can't be created and support it *if* SC2 is as much fail as people are hinting at.
If the game is really as bad as it is, and enough people are asking for SC1 quality mechanics, then that can all be added in and supported by those who want it.
However, I doubt it will need to happen, because SC2 isn't really as bad as we might think. There's still plenty of time to perfect this game.
Dividing community. Bad idea for competitive future of any game.
