Tired of double protoss rushes.

I'm starting to see this all the time, and it's really starting to get on my nerves. You'll have two protoss players and all they do is just straight zealot rush. All the sudden you have 8-16 zealots in your base.

There are some counters. The issue that I have is that you have to put all your energy into defending it, particularly if you are Zerg. I've found that crawlers dont' do enough damage to adequately defend, and you can't get roaches fast enough (not that roaches are worth much anyways). Sometimes you are just barely able to defend it, and then they'll have another wave coming.

Essentially you and your partner have no choice but to just mass as many of the basic untis as you can. Zerg can just build lots of zerglings until they have roaches, and then your partner will have to come and assist.

What's more it doesn't hurt the protoss economy at all to do this. If you are able to defeat the rush and then counter you'll find that they've already fenced themselves in with photon cannons. Plus I'm not even getting into the variations where they rush with a proxy build.
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really? I think that'd be quite easy to defend. 2 sunkens go such a long way, esp when you have a queen to transfusion them. Get 2 queens, 2 sunkens and afew roaches, proper micro behind them and it should be a piece of cake.

roach micro is so key, but if you do it well then 5-6 roaches should be able to take out almost all of the zealots themselves, esp with sunkens firing in the background. Sunkens dont go down due to transfusion.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

really? I think that'd be quite easy to defend. 2 sunkens go such a long way, esp when you have a queen to transfusion them. Get 2 queens, 2 sunkens and afew roaches, proper micro behind them and it should be a piece of cake.

roach micro is so key, but if you do it well then 5-6 roaches should be able to take out almost all of the zealots themselves, esp with sunkens firing in the background. Sunkens dont go down due to transfusion.

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Can we stop using SC1 terms? They're not Sunken Colonies. They're Spine Crawlers.

Whaddya mean roaches and crawlers are useless? I just played a match yesterday where my ally and I got double gate rushed by 2 protoss in front of both of our ramps. When i see that, you HAVE to get roaches else you are screwed. If you don't build roaches, it is a guaranteed loss. 1 or 2 spines in the back also help greatly, and when you are lacking gas off of one base, you use larva on lings. Easy to counter.

As soon as you see it is a proxy rush, immediately throw down a crawler and mass lings and tech to roaches as fast as you can. Works every time for me :)

Against 16 zealots with incoming reinforcements? I don't see how you can survive it. First, it hurts your econ, second you'll have no larva for drones.

This is 5 minutes 6:30 tops. You have the choice to get some 8 roaches, and +1 queen before that happens. And if the opponent team is smart, one of them can pull 4 zeals and demolish your economy.

At 7:10 where your SL just popped, a few more zeals are in your base, your econ is hurting. Your ally can either hit the other team, help defend, but in total, your team is in a disadvantage.

One of the Protoss can send his gas over to the other for some voidrays, and kaput.

pure zeals is not an issue.. If they went a mix of zeal/stalker/sentry, then I can see an issue.. but zeals alone should be easy to defend with roaches and a little bit of micro, and you're economy wont suffer as much as his by having no tech/gas most likely.

Skyze, The problem is that you don't need stalkers/sentries for this to be effective. If they were required to make the push effective it would be fine. The way it is now for a t1 unit mass its a bit too strong.

The only reason it might be strong is because your ally cant instantly assist you. Rushes like this are the main reason 2v2 cant ever be balanced, since double protoss rushing 1 person can be quite difficult to beat, very much the same way double proxy reaper rush will beat a protoss, or early marauder rush.

To be honest though, I dont really see why this would be particularly strong against zerg. An extra queen and some spine crawlers with lings will do a LOT of damage, and will at least hold off until your ally can arrive and push them back.

Building placement is everything. If you put your spine crawler in front of your hatchery, then yeah, that won't last. But if you block your crawler(s) and queen in with your drones behind your hatchery, it's hard for the zealots to be effective. Also, keep in mind that the protoss players basically have to pull it off in the first or second try; their bases are vulnerable as a result of having gone proxy, which means that if they fail in their attempt they're sitting ducks. So long as you scout so that the proxy doesn't catch you by surprise, it should be okay.

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Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer

The only reason it might be strong is because your ally cant instantly assist you. Rushes like this are the main reason 2v2 cant ever be balanced, since double protoss rushing 1 person can be quite difficult to beat, very much the same way double proxy reaper rush will beat a protoss, or early marauder rush.

To be honest though, I dont really see why this would be particularly strong against zerg. An extra queen and some spine crawlers with lings will do a LOT of damage, and will at least hold off until your ally can arrive and push them back.

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Wait until 4v4 comes out. Im expecting 4x reaper rushes and 4x 6pools. Can't wait! :3

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Originally Posted by minerals

Wait until 4v4 comes out. Im expecting 4x reaper rushes and 4x 6pools. Can't wait! :3

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I never did like anything bigger than 2v2... bigger maps should be left for FFA or some other kind of "fun" game style. 4v4 just seems too much like whoever can rush and kill the most people off first.

Well I never said that you can't counter it. The issue that I have is that if you're double protoss there is literally no reason not to do it. If you see that they are double protoss in the loading screen it's pretty much guaranteed that they will zealot rush.

I feel that all of the replies only serve to prove me right. Sure you can defend against it. However, all of your strategies involve being able to get x roaches out or putting down crawlers before they attack. Basically everything you do up until they attack is simply to defend yourself. The double protoss team is basically allowed to call all the shots, and set the entire pace of the game.

So sure 2 crawlers can help, but we're talking about 12 zealots here. They're going to do some serious damage. Plus you're not going to be able to defend an early expand which hurts even more. My whole issue is that there's no real disadvantage. When a reaper rush fails it's a big deal, but a failed Zealot rush makes 0 difference to the rest of the game.
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Originally Posted by TWD

Well I never said that you can't counter it. The issue that I have is that if you're double protoss there is literally no reason not to do it. If you see that they are double protoss in the loading screen it's pretty much guaranteed that they will zealot rush.

I feel that all of the replies only serve to prove me right. Sure you can defend against it. However, all of your strategies involve being able to get x roaches out or putting down crawlers before they attack. Basically everything you do up until they attack is simply to defend yourself. The double protoss team is basically allowed to call all the shots, and set the entire pace of the game.

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I could say the same thing about Zerg rushes though. I just played as double P against two double Zs and we got massacred by Zerglings. It's alot harder to make walls now and with the speed upgrade they can dart easily into your base unless you see them coming and make special precautions like flat out building an extra pylon.

As Zerg I really can't help ya because I rarely play as them. Although as Terran I have no problem with it and actually prefer the Protoss to do it since Terran wall off their base it is easy to defend against, and then counter attack and wipe your opponent out.

I think the best thing you can do as Zerg is have the knowledge that they are going to do it and where they are going to hit so your ally can back you up while you prepare for it.

Me and my partner had this happen to us the other day and I have to agree its pretty crazy how difficult it is to defend. We managed to hold up for a bit but our econ was ruined and we eventually got annihilated.

I've literally defended this rush with 5 roaches and a queen in plat league. Just micro, all your units move faster then zealots on creep.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

I could say the same thing about Zerg rushes though. I just played as double P against two double Zs and we got massacred by Zerglings. It's alot harder to make walls now and with the speed upgrade they can dart easily into your base unless you see them coming and make special precautions like flat out building an extra pylon.

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I know what you are talking about, and I agree that it is also an issue....but only on coalition where you can't flat out block off. Even then maybe that's why all the Protoss don't even bother with that and always just zealot rush?
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Originally Posted by TWD

Well I never said that you can't counter it. The issue that I have is that if you're double protoss there is literally no reason not to do it. If you see that they are double protoss in the loading screen it's pretty much guaranteed that they will zealot rush.

I feel that all of the replies only serve to prove me right. Sure you can defend against it. However, all of your strategies involve being able to get x roaches out or putting down crawlers before they attack. Basically everything you do up until they attack is simply to defend yourself. The double protoss team is basically allowed to call all the shots, and set the entire pace of the game.

So sure 2 crawlers can help, but we're talking about 12 zealots here. They're going to do some serious damage. Plus you're not going to be able to defend an early expand which hurts even more. My whole issue is that there's no real disadvantage. When a reaper rush fails it's a big deal, but a failed Zealot rush makes 0 difference to the rest of the game.

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The same can be said against ANY kind of rush.

Terrans reaper or rauder rushing. Zerg ling rushing (or in the past roach rushing). When one team rushes another, they are forced to go on defense. This is the entire point of a rush.

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Originally Posted by TheRabidDeer

The same can be said against ANY kind of rush.

Terrans reaper or rauder rushing. Zerg ling rushing (or in the past roach rushing). When one team rushes another, they are forced to go on defense. This is the entire point of a rush.

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Sure, but the key difference is that other races have to sacrifice something. When a Zerg rushes their economy is screwed. The reaper rush has similar issues. It requires a lot of investment, and it's very expensive. The zealot rush doesn't have these problems. There's no serious downside other than the possibility of losing some units.
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Well, you won't be able to tech as fast or get stalkers and other units as quick if you do a zealot rush.

no downside?

o grasshopper....

the downside is fairly obvious. yes, u are in defense mode trying to stop the rush. but, if you stop it (which means u most likely have roaches), the p players are screwed if u counter them, because he will only have zealots still and will not be able to get many if any stalkers or sentries by the time ur roaches roll into their bases

its a double edged sword rush, ur betting everything on ur initial attacks. if they fail, u're gonna be behind all game and will have to play catchup

and as someone said earlier, ALL your units are faster than zealots on creep, u micro, they are screwed

8 out of the last 10 matches I have played have been against double Protoss :mad:.
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18SexyHot4U

Yeah, i don't know why people do that all the time. What's the fun into winning a game by a basic-unit rush?

Try a baneling rush :) a few of them can soften up zealots quite a bit so lings can take them out even better. I use this strat quite a bit and it has worked very well for me.

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What's the fun into winning a game by a basic-unit rush?

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It's fun for people who hate the macro game.

But you get better micro from more complex, late game armies, too. In general a tight game that sees the whole tech tree is just more fun no matter who wins. People who do basic unit rush for more than just a harass (though sometimes a harass accidentally wins the game right away) just care about winning.

Meh! There's people that like to win games with Photon Canon rushes. I only do false Canon rushes, that's fun :D

Ya, but cannon rushes are at least an interesting strat. It takes a little more to pull it off than a basic unit rush. It requires a bit of tech to get, and it's a gamble because each cannon is so expensive.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Meh! There's people that like to win games with Photon Canon rushes. I only do false Canon rushes, that's fun :D

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Oh my, I've lost so many times to a pylon hidden in my base...