Oh boy...I can't wait to see my once ridiculously massive Thor in all its "I want to be a Goliath" glory.
The only good thing about this change is that it might help with pathing a little.
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Oh boy...I can't wait to see my once ridiculously massive Thor in all its "I want to be a Goliath" glory.
The only good thing about this change is that it might help with pathing a little.
this is so annoying.The first version was perfect and now thor looks shit. inflatable plastic toy and goliath,just like the other Terran units.
I will buy only single and cinematic.
I'm with you. They just keep appeasing TL, who want SC:BW in 3D. Its disgusting.Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio19
That roach change was really dumb, I was already starting to destroy roaches with mass MARINES....
WTF!? I havnt not once seen someone on TL ask for the thor to be smaller. In fact ive seen many people complain about this recent change. This is just demo's paranoid "TL is out to destroy me" ranting. Hes probably low on attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
There's not point starting a different debate here, but at least try to stay on topic and explain why you think reducing the thor radius is a bad thing. Blind TL hatred is a bit pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Do you actually think the Thor was better when it was bigger? That big bulky unit that took ages to get into position because it got stuck on everything? The whole concept was a failure to begin with, now they're just making it more reasonable (built from factory, toned down the whole "shoulder canon" thing, decreased cooldown and damage, and now they downsize it for functionality). There were some great changes like air AoE though. Now you don't need 10 of them to fend off an 50 mutas, only 4/5.
And by the way, talking about SC:BW in 3D... didn't you want to try removing the roach, marauder and immortal? Yeah, that wouldn't look like BW at all.
edit: damn, I hate agreeing with archer :( haha
I've never said ""TL is out to destroy me."Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
I said, "... TL, who want SC:BW in 3D."
Most of the things they ask for are DIRECT regressions to SC2. Like that whole "move-shooting" fiasco that made the Phoenix into an ice skater.
Its not blind. Its cumulative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammy
The Thor was SO MUCH better being big. It made sense to be able to hold so much ammo. To do so much damage. Now it looks like a mouse with a bazooka. Suspension of disbelief = null.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammy
Read that thread again. I wanted to TEST what would happen if they were removed, to see how much of an impact they really have and it might help in balancing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammy
You are all kinds of phail.
Ladies and gentlemen allow me to present to you the only zerg unit that costs 1 supply
http://sc2armory.com/img/zerg/icons/drone.gif
Oh Blizzard what have you done to my Zerg? :( :( :(
Hmmm yes, lore argument. Thank you for bringing that up squid. Silly me, thinking the focus was on gameplay. Of course everyone has his or her priorities, but you might be mistaken about blizzard's... I think they've shown us they don't care about contradicting "common sense" for the sake of gameplay (and thank god for that).
About the roach, I think the change is just a bit confusing for now (I just played my tourney games against Imdrunkontea and when I used roaches I just kept on getting supply blocked). Once we get the hang of it I don't think it'll be that big a deal besides in ZvZ (which is balanced anyways) since getting roaches very early was rarely the best course of action anyways. Basically each roach costs an extra 12.5minerals and an extra 8th of a larvae.
Right now my main concern is that most paths lead straight to hydras. Most of my builds revolve around a fast T2 and hydra den the instant it's done. I hope it's just a ditch in the metagame.
That's the downside to the nerf imo. Another downside is that in the late game you need to rely on high tech even more since you'll get maxed out really quickly if you make too many roaches. A maxed out roach army would be frighteningly weak in this build.
This may well happen at some stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosh
So, TL unleashed its dog on these forums huh...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Sometimes I just hope that Blizzard releases the game right now, because at this rate of changes in the patches, we will end up with the hellion shotting grenades, the colossus shooting scarabs, and the Corruptor doing cumulative damage... Oh wait...
Well, Zerglings still cost half supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
any unpublished changes...voice ,design, animation???
Hahaha I'm never going to lose against Zerg now!
I highly doubt it. Unless it's another big content patch, they're not going to bother with pushing out new voices, designs etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio19
who the fucks gona buid roaches now
That still proves his point! :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
Of all the SC1 units I miss, the goliath is definitely missed the most. But the Thor isn't a replacement despite similarities. But I, for one, welcome the smaller, robotic overlord.Quote:
Originally Posted by //MavericK\\
Hmm, 2 supply on Roach is kinda extreme. I would've expected 1.5 (half supply is possible, just look at the Zergling) but I guess that's just the way Blizzard patches things.
The Thor resize is probably good for pathing, but now it looks silly. The cockpit doesn't look like it could hold a human being. Perhaps they use lemurs?
I'm pissed that they didn't change the Phoenix's attack mechanics. If they had given it a slide similar to the Vulture where you had to click to keep it going, that would be one thing. This effortless slide all over the map thing is ridiculous.
2 supply for roaches is just...i'm speechless. As it was already mentioned, they're getting pretty useless. Marauder, stalker - these two can easily kite roaches with their attack range. Sure, roaches have speed upgrade, but it's not that much of a deal in this case, since their attack range is still pathetic.
The Viking is closer to a direct replacement for the Goliath. The Thor is just a failure in disguise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maul
Ahahaha, maybe the spinning turret guy changed its home????Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bonicPlague
You will be missed :(
Ok seriously what's with this Roach change. I believe it is good because Roaches are too strong for a 1 supply tier 1 unit, but there is no compensation and Zerg are more optionless than ever.
You know what? They should move Roaches to Tier 2 and Hydras back to Tier 1. Or make 4 zerglings come out of an egg instead of 2. God I don't know.
PS. It's never too late to add a new unit.
Sure it is. I have always maintained a strict separation of when certain changes are to be allowed. At some point, "the die is cast," and you have to accept what you've got.Quote:
It's never too late to add a new unit.
Beta is not for making new units. It's for tweaking what is there into a working state. Play with abilities and stats, but you can't go throwing around entirely new units.
Expansions are for making new units; that's why it is good that there are two of them coming.
Actually if they did it in first months of Beta, it would be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
It doesn't say anywhere that Beta isn't for new units, but like you said, Beta is for testing, and new units would be good at start, but there is seriously no point for introducing new units in the end of the Beta.
I agree you shouldn't need to add new units in the beta, but if that's the only solution to the problem then you have to (not saying it is). Just feels like Zerg have a lot less options and a lot less 'cool' stuff than the other two races.
Actually, nerfing Roaches like this was good. It won't affect early game that much, but in late game, it forces Zerg to go for Brood Lords or mass Hydras or Ultras and not winning by massing only tier 1 unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noise
All they have to do now is to buff Ultras a little bit, cause the reason why we don't see them is cause of general units that every P and T army has and those are Marauders and Immortals. Versus them, Ultras aren't cost-effective at all, and are just waste of Gas and Minerals, since they get focused and killed in matter of seconds.
As I said I like the nerf to the unit, but now most of the Roach oriented builds are a LOT less effective (which would be a good thing if there were equally good options).
I say they make the roaches more like zerglings and you get 2 roaches from 1 larva for 3 pop. Now that would be an interesting fix........lol
Whether or not the Roach population nerf was a necessary change, it was a short sighted one. They fixed one problem (maybe), but it should have been clear to them that it would create a lot of other ones. They reduced early options for a race they already acknowledge has few strategic options, without introducing any other changes that might help. Blizzard should know better.
The fact that you can write that with a straight face shows how meaningless the term "beta" has become.Quote:
It doesn't say anywhere that Beta isn't for new units
"Beta" doesn't mean "unfinished software." It is a specific term for a particular point in a project's development. Different developers use different points for "Beta." One of the more common definitions is the point in development when all features are in the product and generally work as expected, but there may still be bugs or unexpected behavior.
In terms of game development, "beta" is not for making the game better; it is for fixing the game. You've already made the game; that's what the prior steps were for. At this point, you're getting the game stable and functional to the point where you can ship it.
So no; adding new units is not something you should be doing for beta, by the very nature of the term.
Unless of course you want the Zerg to be the race with a lot of units. In which case, this ruins the flavor of the race entirely.Quote:
Actually, nerfing Roaches like this was good. It won't affect early game that much, but in late game, it forces Zerg to go for Brood Lords or mass Hydras or Ultras and not winning by massing only tier 1 unit.
Who says they didn't know that? Blizzard stated, in their explanations for the Patch 12 changes, that they aren't done with the Zerg and that this is transitional.Quote:
Whether or not the Roach population nerf was a necessary change, it was a short sighted one. They fixed one problem (maybe), but it should have been clear to them that it would create a lot of other ones.
scrap the game.
At least well always have diablo 3...Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman_jkh
What if (and I know this is very unlikely) they raised the Zerg's population cap?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
haha ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Not having Beta access might have been a blessing in disguise. No continuous, bitter disappointment!
Perhaps, but my point is they shouldn't implement such a large (negative) change to Zerg without also putting in any of their other changes to the Zerg. If they are aware of the fact that upping the Roach supply cost will significantly weaken and limit the Zerg, but aren't ready to put in other changes to compensate for that yet, then they ought not to implement any of the changes yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
All they're going to get in the meantime is data confirming what they already know - that indeed upping the Roach supply cost significantly affects Zerg, and other changes need to be made. Meanwhile, Zerg is less enjoyable to play.
A transitional change huh??? That must be new one. Make a change so they can change it again later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
You are confusing the Zerglings with the whole faction. The opposition has specific counters to "overwhelm them with loads of weak units", it either simply won´t work or restrict the designspace. Getting 70 Roaches lategame may look fluffy but it was simply OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Yeah, they said something about buffing Ultras, cause they are really overused. So that make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by KadajSouba