Limiting Terran Lift-Off

I've seen more and more complaints about this lately, and I've an idea to propose. First, give all buildings that can lift-off a pool of 200 energy, with a starting amount of 50. Make lift-off cost an initial 15 energy followed by a channeling rate of 1 energy per second (normal game speed) in order to remain in flight. The moment that a building reaches its destination and begins to land will be the moment that the use of energy will stop. Buildings that fail to land before their energy runs out will instantaneously explode, no matter if they are above land or not.

This not only fits gameplay but also lore. Energy usage conflict regarding the Orbital Command can be easily resolved if the OC is built at the site of the resource node. An initial energy cost is used in place of a timed cooldown so that add-on switching can proceed virtually unhindered. The slow rate of energy use still allows a considerable distance to be crossed before needing to land. However, the energy is not infinite, and buildings will have to land if they want to have a chance at remaining operational. All numbers can easily be adjusted for balance.

Your thoughts or own ideas?

I really don't think it is an overly huge deal, at least at my level of play. If someone just floats around at the end of a game refusing to lose they will be found and killed eventually. Also, they are a not very nice person, but who cares. They are wasting their own time too.

Fail, noobonic. Terran buildings can lift off, it's part of their style.

Stop trying to nerf what you can't cope with.

Ya, I've never really won a game with liftoff. It sometimes buys me a bit more time, but only when my opponent has really good timing and a really bad army.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Fail, noobonic. Terran buildings can lift off, it's part of their style.

Stop trying to nerf what you can't cope with.

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I cope with it just fine — I'm a Terran player :D

I gotta say this to the actual complainers, though: what is preventing you from using what you got to find and destroy these floaters? The only possible thing that could prevent you from winning is if there were absolutely 0 resources on the map and you had very little yourself. Even if it takes time, all you gotta do is collect enough resources to build at least 1 air unit that can find and destroy that wandering building. Once you get that one unit attacking the lone buildings, just walk away and go grab a drink or something while your opponent wastes his time trying to save that building.

Ahh, but I digress . . .

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I cope with it just fine — I'm a Terran player

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Then you should totally join my Terran Pride Social group! =p

Also, pure.wasted needs to join as well. We need to bolster our numbers in a group that never has any discussion!

well I did a quiet nasty lift off against Dropsonic, I took out all his probes and nexus' with my cloaked banshees, while he was raising my base, I then lifted off, and as he had no detectors I just jumping back and forth!
If he had gotten all my banshees I would have given up, but frankly we could just make it a waiting game at that point! that's why we need a request draw function :D

i once had a floating command center and my opponent is mined out with only 2 vikings left. at first he was trying to switch mode with two vikings together so i just kept switching between air when they go air and ground when they go ground. then he became smart and left one in air while switching the other one, then i just kept spamming switch between air and ground and he couldn't hit me at all lolololol. (building invulnerable during switching phase)

Terran can lift, zerg move faster on their creep, protoss can warp in units into pylon power... All races have something their buildings give them, there is no need to nerf a lift off just cuz it will take you a bit longer time to win a game.

If someone lifts off and you got no forces to kill him, what makes you think it should have been your win?

Same with a nydus worm on a island or something, if you cant even kill it, it sure is a problem for you both, but at the same time you could both lose all your forces, money and probes to static defence, thats also a problem when no one can win.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

Fail, noobonic. Terran buildings can lift off, it's part of their style.

Stop trying to nerf what you can't cope with.

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I agree with ya, in SC1 it was this way
maybe slow it down if people complain, I dunno I am a Toss player and I don't have anything against the lift off

I think most people complaining about lift off are people that lost the ability to try and produce units that can kill them in the air. Say... a won base trade with pure ground forces while the terran floats his barracks away. You (the person that still has attacking forces left) should win, but you cant because the terran can fly his buildings into a corner where you cant get them. The result being a game of "who leaves/disconnects first", which is frustrating.

Honestly, I dont care either way because its 1 game and it shouldnt be too common. It is annoying though. I hate sore losers. I just won a PvP the other day and his last probe went out to build a pylon so he wouldnt die, he accidentally built it next to one of my scouting probes so I just built a pylon with it and cannons right around while my army went for his probe. Soon after this, he pauses the game (thank god you only get 3 pauses) probably hoping I would hit surrender instead of unpause.

Instead of energy they should just make it where if you are terran and you have no ground forces or non liftable buildings on the ground (i.e. your opponent has destroyed everything you own except the building you've flown off) a 5 minute timer should start. Landing at least a CC and producing an SCV would stop the timer. This would almost never need to come into play since 90% of games the terran loser flying a few building off only slightly delays his demise, but in the small number of instances where the opponent has only ground forces and no way to build air at least the Koopa Para-Troopa terran (get it? He's a FLYING turtle HAHAHAHahahahahhaha...) couldn't just lift off and go make a sandwich hoping for you to surrender. The timer could be longer, I don't want flying a command center off to another location to become not possible, I just hate when people just waste your time.

Here's a 'simple' solution:

Have it so that lifted-off buildings don't count as far as victory conditions are concerned. If the opponent has your buildings on the run and you have nothing on the ground, you lose. Moreover, this has the added benefit of preventing Terran players from rushing to a high yield mineral field right off the bat (thus reducing restrictions in balanced map design).

Zerg structures, larva, and defensive structures will eventually get a timed-life meter if they're off creep for too long.

When all of the Terran's supply depots are destroyed, give lifted-off Terran structures a timed-life meter whenever they're flying.

Why bother so much? lifting off all your buildings will do you no good, it will just delay your inevitable death.
I think Terran buildings are still very slow, at least not too different from SC1. Besides, I think Blizzard has already done enough improvements to SC to fix this considering that they're being revealed so you can know where their lifted off buildings are.
If you can't get a single Phoenix/Viking/Mutalisc to destroy it, then you're either too lazy or you just suck.

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Originally Posted by Josue

Why bother so much? lifting off all your buildings will do you no good, it will just delay your inevitable death.
I think Terran buildings are still very slow, at least not too different from SC1. Besides, I think Blizzard has already done enough improvements to SC to fix this considering that they're being revealed so you can know where their lifted off buildings are.

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Its to minimize further frustration.

The net effect would be that a player that has lost wont bother to frustrate the winner.. the mere fact that something like this is in place would make the loosing player more inclined to just hit surrender.

The goal is to not make Terran players that resort to this to instantly loose, the goal is to give the Terran player less incentive to use the tactic and instead do something else.

More players in the pool for the next game.

Protoss nexus now require pylon to power. Unpowered nexus will self-destruct after 2 minutes of unpowering.

amidoingitright?

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Originally Posted by pOtentiaLeaver

Protoss nexus now require pylon to power. Unpowered nexus will self-destruct after 2 minutes of unpowering.

amidoingitright?

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Pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Luminition

I really don't think it is an overly huge deal, at least at my level of play. If someone just floats around at the end of a game refusing to lose they will be found and killed eventually. Also, they are a not very nice person, but who cares. They are wasting their own time too.

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Assuming you have the ability to tech. Sometimes, especially in higher levels of player, this can be taken away.

Yeah, I gotta say no to this. It isn't all that hard to track down a Terran building in flight. They aren't all that fast.

Besides, there are only three big reasons for moving Terran buildings.

1. You've built a second CC and need to move it to a new resource node.

2. You are cheesing some poor guy with a backdoor racks or factory into his main.

3. The other guy has you on the run, having overrun your main base or expo.

I think the incentive for limiting lift-off is more for end game situations where both sides are unable to produce more units (e.g. base races, resource exhaustion, etc). Let's say a Protoss player is left with a strong army of Zealots and Colossi where as the Terran player has no forces left and is just a bunch of production buildings with no supply. By right, the Protoss player ought to win but the Terran can simply lift-off and simply wait until the other player leaves, thus 'winning' the match.

Yet, if the exact situation was reversed (e.g. a Terran force of Marauders and Siege Tanks where as the Protoss only had unpowered buildings), the Terran player is the clear winner and there is nothing the Protoss player can do to alter this outcome.

If the races are to be balanced, Terrans should not be allowed to use such a cheap trick to alter the outcome of a match.

I'm against changing Lift-off, mostly because the it doesn't deserve changing for those few games where they force a draw. Should we change it so island expansions die if you can't reach them at the end? It would be just as frustrating for T if they only had marauders left, and an Extractor/Assimilator survived on an island expo.

I get that it's lame that sometimes one has to tolerate this happening, and I get that it is frustrating because it is easy for T to do. However, I suggest planning ahead against T (read: hide an air unit or two away) and remembering names of players who have done it to you before. Maybe they can add a report player option like unsportsmenlike conduct or something.

But that situation is incredibly rare. How often do both players completely destroy each other's mineral lines and command buildings, without enough left to build a new one? There are two solutions to that. The first is to hide a single air unit in some corner of the map just in case, and the other is to make sure you can rebuild after the attack that your opponent just failed at.

Another thread is suggesting a draw option be implemented and I think this would solve this whole issue.

If neither player can complete the win condition of destroying all buildings, then the match is a draw.

That means if the one player cannot field any units that can destroy the opposing Terran player's last remaining building(s), both players could agree to end the game in a draw. Neither player would have to walk away with a loss.

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Originally Posted by Dalarsco

But that situation is incredibly rare. How often do both players completely destroy each other's mineral lines and command buildings, without enough left to build a new one? There are two solutions to that. The first is to hide a single air unit in some corner of the map just in case, and the other is to make sure you can rebuild after the attack that your opponent just failed at.

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The issue is equality between the races; i.e. if the situations were identically flipped between two races, the outcome should be the same.

Not necessarily. Different races have different strengths and weaknesses. I mean, if I quickly rush a Zerg player and he gets his spawning pool up while I'm there, he can suddenly train a ton of 'lings and beat me. A Protoss player who gets rushed while just getting his Gateway up is much less likely to recover as easily. What matters more is whether the strength can be used to steal a win, which is the worry that is there is a Terran player somehow manages to wipe out his enemies ability to produce anything that can attack air, while his opponent removes his ability to attack anything.

THIS is why noobonic is right...

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Originally Posted by rdragon87

I'm against changing Lift-off, mostly because the it doesn't deserve changing for those few games where they force a draw. Should we change it so island expansions die if you can't reach them at the end? It would be just as frustrating for T if they only had marauders left, and an Extractor/Assimilator survived on an island expo.

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I basically agree with this. It's fun to talk about, but we're getting worked up about a scenario which hardly ever happens (and which is better solved by instituting a draw-option, anyway). We shouldn't change a critical Terran mechanic for such a flimsy reason.

Flimsy?

If I let that bloody SOB live, I'd have to work my way though his BS army of marauder tanks to make him beg for mercy again...

Annoying much?

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Originally Posted by Maxa

I basically agree with this. It's fun to talk about, but we're getting worked up about a scenario which hardly ever happens (and which is better solved by instituting a draw-option, anyway). We shouldn't change a critical Terran mechanic for such a flimsy reason.

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I agree. The lift-off mechanic should not be changed. What ought to change are the victory conditions. For instance, not counting floating buildings as 'buildings'. After all, if you're in a situation where all your buildings are lifted off, meaning you have no depots, no turrets, no bunkers or even refineries, you're likely to be in a retreat. And a retreat, whether tactical or not, only happens when you've come up second best.

By using this method, you prevent these 'rare' lift-off abuses without impinging on regular play.

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Originally Posted by Edfishy

Zerg structures, larva, and defensive structures will eventually get a timed-life meter if they're off creep for too long..

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You realize all Zerg structures Die if they are off creep (lose hp)

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Originally Posted by Krikkitone

You realize all Zerg structures Die if they are off creep (lose hp)

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He's saying the same thing you are. The point he's making is if Zerg buildings die off creep Terran buildings shouldn't be able to fly forever.

After careful reassessment of this I think the flight mechanic should use gas at a very, very slow rate. This way we change almost nothing about Terran flying, there is no draw and the building will land automatically upon full vespene exhaustion or be destroyed if it is in a place where it can not land. It could go into effect if a building is lifted for more than 3 minutes or something and would continue if the building doesn't land for over a minute. That way folks couldn't pick it up and drop it to restart the timer. Lifting off would have to be a strategic move for a purpose in the game, not just to drag it out.