The current model has wide shoulders and is not as androgynous as you think.
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The current model has wide shoulders and is not as androgynous as you think.
If i can find a quote from blizzard saying he is a ghost will you admit he is?Quote:
Originally Posted by MattII
I'm not sure if the discussion is: Is Gabriel Tosh a ghost or WAS he a ghost?
Either way, it has been mentioned that he has had past ties with Kerrigan, suggesting that he was a part of the old ghost program. Unfortunately, unless an announcement is made, we'll have to wait for Wings of Liberty, or the book StarCraft: Spectre (whichever is first), since Tosh has been hinted or confirmed at making an appearance in.
Tosh USED to be a Ghost. He was in the program with Kerrigan. Somehow, sometime (its still not specified when) he left/escaped, and is now a member of Raynor's crew. He is no longer a ghost, however he more than likely retains any and all psychic abilities he had as a ghost, because ghosts are chosen because they're telepathic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
I don't see why not - I mean, there ARE female ghosts in the SC universe. Why not have them actually implemented into multiplayer?
Because two models for the same unit is harder than one, and adds absolutely jack to the game (in the same was that having two DT models would).
Because there are also male and female Marines, Marauders, Reapers, Hellions, Siege Tanks, Thors, Vikings, Medivacs, Ravens and Banshees as well as possibly Battlecruiser commodores. Also, they consist of Whites, Blacks, Hispanics and Asians (did I miss any race?). Would you suggest adding all of those as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Runtime
Why not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. peasant
Not really. I was just assuming it would be cool and fair to have at least one unit from each side to have a model variation, since Protoss have that feature with DT's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. peasant
NO! Only white male caucasian protestants from upper middle class families. Something like this
http://fantasy411.mlblogs.com/ron-burgundy.jpg
Only if it applies to the time-period of SC2. It won't of course, because it's been explicitly stated that Tosh is an arms dealer, not a Ghost.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Because it won't add enough to the game to be worth the trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron
And just how are you going to do it with the Zerg?Quote:
Originally Posted by Runtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattII
I can think of a couple creative zerg models that could go with a second version.
I just looked at the sc wikia. The wikia doesn't state specifically that Tosh was ever a ghost at all. It just said he used to be affiliated with the ghost program and that his former occupation was also a ghost trainer.
So is was/is a ghost or not?
The wikia claims that in the Ghost Academy series Gabriel will lead a team of 4 Ghost trainees, indicating that he probably 'was' a Ghost outright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
I love the multiple unit idea, was one of the only things great about dawn of war, having unique effects on your non-spammable organic units would be very cool.
Ghosts, Templar and Queens would be the most likely candidates in my opinion.
I don't think it would confuse people very much, since you only get portraits+sound if you are using the units yourself, in which case you would know which type it was.
I think that the units should be immediatly recognizable at sight. Male and female Ghosts should be very similar. Same color, and overall design.Quote:
Originally Posted by emikochan
The dual DT model is more likely to cause confusion, as the models look way different from each other, but are the same unit. Fortunately, they are both invisible, and it's the only Protoss invisible ground unit, which surely helps.
Basing from the mockup in this thread, at playing distance, I don't think the male and female ghosts would be very distinguisable at all, I do agree that it should be immediately recognisable at playing distance, but I think zooming in should add more variation and realism. (a similar mindset to the strategic zoom in Supreme Commander)
Putting a ghost voice filter over a male and female actor would give you the audio feedback on selection (who is really staring at portraits to see which unit they selected?)
If THAT fails, change the backlighting on the portraight so you can tell at a peripheral glance which unit it is.
I really think blizzard could please both camps on this one.
I think its funny that the two arguements put forth against a female ghost are these
1) It would look too similar to a male ghost and people wouldnt notice.
2) It would look to different from the male ghost and be confused for another type of unit.
hmmmm :P
To be honest, unit randomization isn't really a huge issue.
I've played many RTS mods where they randomize unit features and you can still easily identify the squad despite looking differently. Its not hard to pick out once it becomes familiar.
If you know that there are two ghost models, and you know what those two models look like, there is absolutely no surprise element to your game. It doesn't matter if you get the male or the female version, you know it's a ghost and that's what matters.
One or the other always applies, either it's a waste of time and money because of 1), or it mucks up gameplay because of 2). I'll concede there might be an area in the middle where it works, but it's a knife-edge even there, and there are far more important things to worry about, like balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Blizzard is famous for finding that knife-edge. Its called polish and its also the reason their balance is so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattII
As far as I've seen, no other unit in the Terran army has white on them, so all that needs to be done is have the two different models have white conspicuously on them. Then there's almost no chance that the Ghost will be confused with another unit, and it allows for more drastic change between the gender models so they actually look different.
My major concern is that because of the different models it could add a level of random to the game which is never good.
Lets just use a male and female ghost to the example.
Lets say, because of the different models, the male ghost swings his gun slightly further than the female ghost does. What if youre sneaking into the enemy base and on the enemies screen the ghost is just out of the top of it. Because the ghost is male, the gun swings wider and goes into the enemies view for a split second and he notices it. If the ghost was female the opponent would have not even noticed the ghost at all.
The same could go for the DT models. They both have a slightly different animation due to their weapons.
Different models could change certain situations. Sure, what are the chances of something like that happening.. but its possible!
HAVENT ANY OF YOU SEEN TWELVE ANGRY MEN!? THERES A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT IT COULD HAPPEN! SO NOT GUILTY! Erm... so no for multiple models of the same unit.
I would totaly do her, same goes for Infested Kerrigan xDQuote:
Originally Posted by MattII
In SC that may have been true, it isn't now though, not with their policy of apparently coming up with a 'cool' concept (see Thor), and then doing their damnedest to try and fit it in, rather than taking a functional concept, and trying to make it look 'cool'.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Trying to make individual male and female Ghosts is a waste of time and money which could be much better spent elsewhere, like balancing the blasted Ghost in the first place (available at tier 1.5, but so prohibitively expensive you'd be unlikely to get it till tier 2 at least).
Oh come on, what a baseless response.
Art assets has nothing to do with design. If they spend time to make 35 different animations for marine deaths, it has absolutely no impact on the combat efficiency of a baneling.
Personally i would'nt see any problem with it.
Though i have to admit, a women ghost deosnt seem to threatening out in the field. :D But that gives her an edge i say.
If you mean a unit's art (model, profile, etc.) has nothing to do with its mechanics, then your mostly correct (Thor is an obvious exception, ). A unit's design however, is 50/50 art and mechanics, and two different models add little to a unit's art and nothing to its mechanics, despite the time taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron
No, but two or three different Baneling models might, especially if one was smaller and slimmer.Quote:
If they spend time to make 35 different animations for marine deaths, it has absolutely no impact on the combat efficiency of a baneling.
No one's asking for a smaller or slimmer Ghost.
Besides, model size =/= collision. People have gotten used to carriers being able to 'stack' in air despite its size, gotten used to dragoons clumsily crossing bridges. SC units don't have perfect hitboxes, and this isn't asking for a size change of the current model. A new model for the ghost won't impact gameplay very negatively. A simple Starcraft mod could prove this.
Oh, so you don't want two models, just two profiles?Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron
If it was decided that the Ghost had both Female and Male options, I'd prefer it kept in profile (ie Voice and Avater) and keep it to one Ghost model, that could work for both male or female.
However, I see no problems for a female ghost model, however subtle the changes would be. It would have little to no impact on gameplay.
I like how this thread has spawned 2 others on SCLegacy and about 14 on B.Net.
Its about time we gave some more attention to female units. Im going to be honest here Ive known some women who are more scary than any siege tank or ultralisk could ever be.
I love the idea of having about a third of the units being female,
but I would rather have them all female over the idea of some both/random shit.
But then people would start asking for more female Zerg. And we know how that turned out *points at the Queen*
I could support another female unit. I am not sure about the maurader. Just doesnt seem very feminem. Id vote for banshee.Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bonicPlague
And I think the queen makes a great female zerg.
Sorry for bumping an old thread but I think people would like to see this. Apparently you guys have some competition from TeamLiquid. Heres the version of the female ghost that Doomfish is proposing over there.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/...f9fdda73_o.jpg http://www.abload.de/img/femghostt4ht.png
I think the balance is perfect. Not too distinct that you would think its a different unit but not so similar that you cant tell its a female version.
Isn't that just one of the early designs of Nova?
Yes but modified to show what a female ghost unit could look like.
Honestly the only difference you can really tell is that the female version isn't wearing a helmet (or at least has flowing hair).
The chestplate won't really be noticeable in gameplay, especially at such low polys. Thus the only real difference, aside from hair, would be the portrait.
Personally, while I think it would be kind of neat to have random male/female, a couple months down the road people will just look at this and be like, "well, that was pointless."
Id prefer to have only female ghosts myself but w/e. Dont see the point in both but oh well.