Female Ghost

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Originally Posted by MattII

That's like saying that all Marines are going to be caucasian because we've seen no other ethnicity, it's logical given the evidence, but it's also undoubtedly wrong.

Also, you're saying that "no female Ghosts = female Ghosts don't wear helmets". This is utter baloney, the only conclusions we can draw are 'no female Ghosts = female Ghosts aren't automatically central characters".

Now stuff off and stop trying to impose your opinions onto me, I've made my choice and I'm sticking with it.

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You were the one who said female ghosts wear helmets. I asked you to provide an example of a female ghost. Blizzard has said that there will be no female ghost in SC2 multiplayer. Perhaps I went to far in saying that female ghosts dont where helmets but too my credit I have 3 examples of females not wearing helmets and you have none.

Also I am not trying to impose my opinions on you. Its fine if you dont think there should be female ghosts in SC2. These forums are for discussion though and thats what im trying to have with you. I dont really know where the "stuff off" aggression is coming from.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

You were the one who said female ghosts wear helmets. I asked you to provide an example of a female ghost. Blizzard has said that there will be no female ghost in SC2 multiplayer. Perhaps I went to far in saying that female ghosts dont where helmets but too my credit I have 3 examples of females not wearing helmets and you have none.

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Kerrigan doesn't count, and neither does Nova in her SC:G garb. I'd presume that this is your third proof:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/st..._SC2_Head1.jpg
I'll contradict with this:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/st...SC2_Cncpt1.jpg
Of course it's not total proof, but that Ghost does look awfully feminine to me.

I would actually like it, if there would be more female units in the game, or even a female hero, and i really don't care how they would be portraited, as long they would be in there.
Females are in the army to and they to can fight.
There should be a heavy suit female unit, i don't see why men only can wear them .

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Originally Posted by MattII

I'll contradict with this:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/st...SC2_Cncpt1.jpg
Of course it's not total proof, but that Ghost does look awfully feminine to me.

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Good, thats what all I wanted.
Still I think that it would be pretty easy to tell a male ghost from a female ghost even if they had there helmets on. For one females have a much thinner body structure

oh yah and breasts.

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Originally Posted by Perfecttear

I would actually like it, if there would be more female units in the game, or even a female hero, and i really don't care how they would be portraited, as long they would be in there.

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Um, in case you haven't realised, the portrait's the only way to tell a unit's gender/ethnicity/age.

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Females are in the army to and they to can fight.

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Indeed. However, having multiple portraits and/or models for a single unit is, I believe, a mistake. One model and one portrait are all that is needed in MP, giving us any more is really just a waste of time. If they want to give us more models and/or portraits, let them just put them in the editor for use to use to our heart's content.

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There should be a heavy suit female unit.

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Again, this would require a different portrait, not a different unit, though I don't know which one would really be more difficult.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Good, thats what all I wanted.

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Oh, right, I was looking around for statements, models or portraits of female Ghosts, althought I suppose to refute artwork, artwork is sufficient.

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Still I think that it would be pretty easy to tell a male ghost from a female ghost even if they had there helmets on. For one females have a much thinner body structure

oh yah and breasts.

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So what's your opinion of that one, male or female?

I'm just wondering, would you accept it, if for instance the marauder unit would be a female. If no please explain why.

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Originally Posted by MattII

Indeed. However, having multiple portraits and/or models for a single unit is, I believe, a mistake. One model and one portrait are all that is needed in MP, giving us any more is really just a waste of time. If they want to give us more models and/or portraits, let them just put them in the editor for use to use to our heart's content.

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You know I am not so far from your opinion as you probably think. In the DT poll I felt that there should only be one model for each unit (at least in multiplayer).

However IF that rule is broken (as it appears it will be) then I see no reason why we cant have female and male ghosts. I am not saying that we should have different models for every unit but if one unit with two models is ok than two units with two models will be ok aswell.

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Originally Posted by Perfecttear

I'm just wondering, would you accept it, if for instance the marauder unit would be a female. If no please explain why.

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Is that question for me MattII or the community in general? I would say that the marauder is prolly not a good choice because it doesnt have a very umm feminin figure. (Waits for people to call me sexist).

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Is that question for me MattII or the community in general? I would say that the marauder is prolly not a good choice because it doesnt have a very umm feminin figure. (Waits for people to call me sexist).

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The unit animation should really not matter, they would just need to change the portrait and voice and it would be a female marauder. And you would have a kickass female unit :D

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

However IF that rule is broken (as it appears it will be) then I see no reason why we cant have female and male ghosts. I am not saying that we should have different models for every unit but if one unit with two models is ok than two units with two models will be ok aswell.

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The problem there being that a female Ghost wouldn't really be different enough from a male Ghost to have a new model which would give us either two models the same, or one model with multiple portraits.

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Originally Posted by MattII

So what's your opinion of that one, male or female?

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It has a slight build, wide hips and breasts. So I am going to have to go with female.

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Originally Posted by MattII

The problem there being that a female Ghost wouldn't really be different enough from a male Ghost to have a new model which would give us either two models the same, or one model with multiple portraits.

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Like I said, thin figure, wide hips, breasts.

I'd love to see Female Ghosts pop out at random while building a Ghost. It gives the game more flavour with different genders of units so it's not just men all the time.

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Originally Posted by Perfecttear

The unit animation should really not matter, they would just need to change the portrait and voice and it would be a female marauder. And you would have a kickass female unit :D

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Actually, I quite like the idea of a female Marauder. It's somewhat random and funny but at the same time, provides a female presence for Terran combatants. Making the Ghost a female unit is very cliched, and not in a good/campy way.

female marauder would also have a certain Metroid vibe

MattII just as a follow up this is the male ghost with wide shoulders, thin hips and muscular. It can definatly be femaninenemized. Other things can also be changed to disntiguish it from the male model such as removing the back pack, different body suits, no helmet etc...

http://cfs3.tistory.com/upload_contr...gvMC80Mi5qcGc=

Feminine version of default ghost model:http://i39.tinypic.com/20ff409.jpg

The problem is that this is an enlarged view to show off the models. At normal game scale you can't really see much difference, at which point why bother with having two models?

Wow amazing work! Can we give her a different bodysuit (like the DT's have different armour) and take away the back pack? Also maybe a new rifle.

Where's the obligatory ponytail?

Also, I do agree about giving the female ghost a slightly more differing body suit.

Man, different suit is a lot more work though :( What do you think would be the key differences? The problem is has to be similar enough so that the units "read" the same on screen. For instance the dark Templar models have pretty much the same armor except for a few details (mask and shoulders) plus the different weapons.

Ponytail is not a bad idea, just not very realistic :D

So I checked and the male ghost actually has a different head in the current build.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/st..._SC2_Game1.jpg

Ill see if I can photoshop the new head on the old male body. I think we should def keep the ninja mask look for the females face. It makes her look like the ghost in the mengsk artwork.

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(like the DT's have different armour)

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They do? I never noticed.

I'm pretty sure if Blizzard wanted to, make a female ghost easily differentiable from the male ghost wouldn't be hard.

Anyway, on the original ghost model that spider brigade posted, the red fohawk strip is ugly as sin.
Doesn't mean the current model looks any better though. It looks even uglier with that squashed look, huge shoulder pads and giant knee/shin bracers. Seriously, that ghost has more problems than the last.

Guys I started this thread over on TL and there beating us. 86% of them appove of a female ghost compared to our 81. Keep those votes coming!

So heres a good benchmark for how different the male/female ghosts should look.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/st..._SC2_Game2.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/st..._SC2_Game3.jpg

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Guys I started this thread over on TL and there beating us. 86% of them appove of a female ghost compared to our 81!

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Or more accurately, we're beating them by still having 13.6% sensible enough to be against female Ghosts. :D :rolleyes: :p

Lol of course, thats what I meant :P

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

So heres a good benchmark for how different the male/female ghosts should look.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/st..._SC2_Game2.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/st..._SC2_Game3.jpg

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Like hell they should, Ghosts all wear the same armour and carry the same weapons, unlike the different tribes of DT (for preference I'll go with keeping the Lenassa, just stick the Zer'atai in as a hero unit, like civilians were).

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

Or more accurately, we're beating them by still having 13.6% sensible enough to be against female Ghosts. :D :rolleyes: :p

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Now I know why you're called Mr. Peasant.

Because you're uneducated.

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Originally Posted by MattII

Ghosts all wear the same armour

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http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/st...SC1_Cncpt1.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/st...h_SC2_Art1.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/st...t_SC1_Art1.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/st...an_SC1_Art.jpg
https://cghub.com/files/Image/6350/large_image.jpg

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Originally Posted by MattII

and carry the same weapons,

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"In addition to the hostile environment suit, ghosts have access to the following weapons:

AGR-14 rifle
BOSUN FN92 rifle
C-10 rifle
C-20A rifle
Combat knife
E-11 lockdown device
Psyblade
Tactical nuke launcher
Torrent SR-8 shotgun "
Source: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

"In addition to the hostile environment suit, ghosts have access to the following weapons:

AGR-14 rifle
BOSUN FN92 rifle
C-10 rifle
C-20A rifle
Combat knife
E-11 lockdown device
Psyblade
Tactical nuke launcher
Torrent SR-8 shotgun "
Source: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost

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That's from SC:Ghost, and the game never seen the light. Not only that, but that "different weapons" were just made up because you couldn't have it all from the beggining of the game. The "Lockdown device", "Tactical Nuke Launcher", "C-20A" and "C-10" are really the same weapon the Ghost carries all the time in SC (lockdown is just special ammunition for the rifle).
It would make no sense in SC to show a Ghost carrying a shotgun, a knife, or a normal rifle, either. Not to mention the Psyblade.
They forgot the flamethrower.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

That's from SC:Ghost, and the game never seen the light. Not only that, but that "different weapons" were just made up because you couldn't have it all from the beggining of the game. The "Lockdown device", "Tactical Nuke Launcher", "C-20A" and "C-10" are really the same weapon the Ghost carries all the time in SC (lockdown is just special ammunition for the rifle).
It would make no sense in SC to show a Ghost carrying a shotgun, a knife, or a normal rifle, either. Not to mention the Psyblade.
They forgot the flamethrower.

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There are four different rifles there. Therefore you can have a female ghost with a different type of rifle from the male ghost.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

Now I know why you're called Mr. Peasant.

Because you're uneducated.

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Why? Is it because I forgot to double check the polls after posting or because I disagree with you? ;)

Leave Mr.peasant alone. He is not uneducated just cause he doesnt want 2 ghosts.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

There are four different rifles there. Therefore you can have a female ghost with a different type of rifle from the male ghost.

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Not in game you can't Archer, in game Ghosts need to have one look, and need to do one set damage. Also, trying to use pictures or details from SC1 and SCG is just plain dumb, this is a new game, and as such, things are different from either of those games (in the same way that the Korean War was different from the Pacific Campaign in WW2).

Just give us one model, one profile, one standard Ghost, save miss 'sexy-in-a-suit' for the scenario editor.

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Originally Posted by MattII

Not in game you can't Archer, in game Ghosts need to have one look, and need to do one set damage.

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Just like DT's need to have one look and need to do one set of damage? BTW having different looks does not mean their damage needs to be different. When I say different weapon I do not mean change the damage. I think a different type of rifle would do nicely but I am open to suggestions.

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Originally Posted by MattII

Also, trying to use pictures or details from SC1 and SCG is just plain dumb, this is a new game, and as such, things are different from either of those games

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Two out of the five pictures were from Starcraft 2. And I dont see how it being a different game means that they arnt ghosts? You said "ghosts wear different armour" and I showed you they didnt.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Just like DT's need to have one look and need to do one set of damage?

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Exacty, each unit should have only one look.

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BTW having different looks does not mean their damage needs to be different. When I say different weapon I do not mean change the damage. I think a different type of rifle would do nicely but I am open to suggestions.

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What part of 'one model, one profile' don't you understand. Trying to introduce two models and/or profiles for the same unit just adds complications, and will do little or nothing for the finished product (does it really matter if you car's speedometer is black-on white-or white-on-black).

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Two out of the five pictures were from Starcraft 2.

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Tosh can't be counted, he's no longer affiliated with the Ghost Program.

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And I dont see how it being a different game means that they arnt ghosts?

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Uniforms/garbs from previous games are no longer used, and as such can't be counted as current.

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You said "ghosts wear different armour" and I showed you they didnt.

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I said "Ghosts wear the same armour" and you produced a bunch of pictures that bare little or no relation to each other in an attempt to prove that they do (#1 is probably the SC/BW era Service Uniform, #2 is casual dress, not a uniform, #3 is probably the current Combat Uniform, #4 is probably the SC/BW era Combat Uniform,#5 is probably the SCG era Combat Uniform).

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Originally Posted by MattII

Tosh can't be counted, he's no longer affiliated with the Ghost Program.

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You like to say things cant be counted and then point out random things about them. He is a ghost. Not a siege tank. Not a Nexus. A ghost.

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Originally Posted by MattII

Uniforms/garbs from previous games are no longer used,

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Why do previous games not count? Its been four years and everyones gotten a uniform change? Also if so many ghosts had unique individualized looks in BW time I see no reason why that would change for SC2.

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Originally Posted by MattII

I said "Ghosts wear the same armour" and you produced a bunch of pictures that bare little or no relation to each other in an attempt to prove that they do (#1 is probably the SC/BW era Service Uniform, #2 is casual dress, not a uniform, #3 is probably the current Combat Uniform, #4 is probably the SC/BW era Combat Uniform,#5 is probably the SCG era Combat Uniform).

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Do you have any proof what so every to support what your saying?

Nova's suit is by far the sexiest...

With Tosh coming in second. And btw, I'm going to have to agree that Ghosts do wear different suits.

I'm pretty sure Tosh is still wearing a ghost suit because if not, he wouldn't be able to augment any of his psionic capabilites.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

There are four different rifles there. Therefore you can have a female ghost with a different type of rifle from the male ghost.

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I don't have any problem with adding a female Ghost model, but the weapons from SC:Ghost were added simply because the game mechanics required that, and they don't make too much sense in SC.
If they look nearly identical to the male Ghosts from normal pespective, it's not really a problem, at least they could add some variety to in-game cinematics.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

You like to say things cant be counted and then point out random things about them. He is a ghost. Not a siege tank. Not a Nexus. A ghost.

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'Was' a Ghost, he is no longer affiliated with the program, or even with the military.

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Why do previous games not count? Its been four years and everyones gotten a uniform change?

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Uniforms might not be the half of it, who knows what new technologies (suit strength, cloaking device, weapons) have been developed that might not fit into the old suits (noting that the new ones looks somewhat bulkier).

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Also if so many ghosts had unique individualized looks in BW time I see no reason why that would change for SC2.

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There were two 'Ghost' models in SC1 the normal one and 'Kerrigan', the others were just the normal models with different portraits and stats.

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Do you have any proof what so every to support what your saying?

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Gabriel Tosh is no longer with the program, so what he's wearing can't be military uniform, Samir Duran's suit (the first image) is obviously not a Combat Uniform, and the other three are from three separate games, so yes, that is proof, though whether it's enough proof to convince a diehard romantic like you is another matter, maybe I should ask someone a little more objective.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

I'm pretty sure Tosh is still wearing a ghost suit because if not, he wouldn't be able to augment any of his psionic capabilites.

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The one decent picture we have of Tosh is as an arms dealer and associate of Raynor, not as a Ghost (it could be a cover for his continued work as a Ghost, but then it's highly unlikely he'd wear anything to associate himself with the Ghost Program anyway).

I'll also note that the army has three sets of uniforms anyway, a Combat Uniform, a Service Uniform, and a Physical Training Uniform.

New voice set, new avatar, same model with very adrogynous features.

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Originally Posted by Triceron

New voice set, new avatar, same model with very adrogynous features.

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how do you put androgynous features on a suit that's already about as gender specific as lump of clay?

Either male OR female. NOT both.

If I see another unit duo again......