Leauge Division Re-Placements

Good morning/evening/night!

I go by the name of Deloctyte on the net, and I'm a long time lurker here.
Tis one of the few sites I check up on daily. Kudos, boys!

Anywho, I just won a mach after roughly...I think four or five losses in a row. At the initial placement, I was ranked lower-Gold (Rank 70-60) and I've been slipping under 70 slightly. Still I fought on, and finally got myself the aformentioned win.

Then, something like this greeted me:
-You have been Re-sorted into the Silver Leauge-

Huh?

All the time I spend loosing, and nothing happened, and I finally win a mach in three days, and I get downgraded?(The system placed me into roughly the same position, by the way, just a whole Leauge lower.) I seriously see no logic here, and I was wondering if anyone had an explenation, or had the same thing happen to them. In short, if this is intentional, and how the system shoud work, or some sort of random bogey that hit me.

Please help me, I'm confused!

The same thing happened to me, where i won a match in the silver league, and bam! I got placed in the bronze league.

I asked why, here on the forum, and this is what one guy told me :

" Your ranking is not based on your wins and losses alone, also on your APM, resources unspent and such. If those factors are weak, it might explain why you were moved down. "

And i think that it makes sense :=)

I lost a match yesterday, i got void ray owned. Then i promoted from silver to gold... confusing!

The promotion system does not analyze single games and wait for you to win or lose to promote/demote you. It analyzes your play over a period of time and promotes/demotes you depending on your record, who you beat and numerous other factors. It does not matter if you won or lost the game right before it, it simply looks at your overall trend.

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Originally Posted by Hav0x

It does not matter if you won or lost the game right before it, it simply looks at your overall trend.

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I'm not sure that makes sense; at least, it doesn't clear up the confusion. Suppose you're right, and shifts in placement are not assessed on a game-by-game basis. That just raises the question: Why now? Clearly something prompted G2slurp's promotion following his loss. There has to be a reason that he was moved to gold at that point, and not at another point. So what was it exactly?

"And that's one reason why we're running the Beta right now, to continue the test of our system to understand where it is confusing and also to work on the bugs which approach. A lot of the stuff we're seeing right now are actually bugs, where people are being promoted and demoted at the wrong time. That's why it seems so random."
- Dustin Browder

http://starcraft2.ingame.de/sc2cl/?m...&id=102427&p=2

You do not fall from a league if you are below the base you fall from a league if your x points below the base. Then those points translate into somewhere in the middle in the league below.

It could have been that the game you won was against say a copper or bronze league player to see how low it needed you to go. If you ask in game when your lower in your bracket and your losing what league they are in chances are they will say one below you.

Maybe you had been playing silver people and then it matched you against a bronze and you won that one saving you from bronze.

It makes sense to me. The system is going to make a decision at some point. Let's say it watches in 6 game increments. You lost 5 and won 1. Just because you won the last game doesn't mean anything. It watched you and made a decision at game six. It could go the other way. You win 5 in a row and lose the last one and get moved up. People always correlate the last result with their current skill level so this seems random, and blizzard admitted it still does some weird stuff, but just because you eked out a win after a string of losses doesn't mean you should be where you are.

They also mentioned in the same interview TheRabidDeer quoted from that the system will never be fully transparent because they don't want people de ranking to stomp noobs. So even going on a losing streak purposely may not drop you. As was already speculated several factors are likely being monitored to determine where you should be. If you exhibit high apm, good resource management and fantastic build orders for a long period of time and then suddenly start lying down so you can have your way and be an e-thug in copper league it probably won't happen.

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Originally Posted by SinsWage

It makes sense to me. The system is going to make a decision at some point. Let's say it watches in 6 game increments. You lost 5 and won 1. Just because you won the last game doesn't mean anything. It watched you and made a decision at game six. It could go the other way.

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Right, that's the only way I could imagine Bnet grading players on anything like an overall trend. Something like that should be easily verifiable, since if 6-game increments are the key then everyone should be leveling up or down when their total games played is a multiple of 6 (or 7, or 10, or some other divisor).

To make things clear, I'm not QQ-ing about not being in gold. If I do fine in Silver, I'll be a happy panda. The whole randomity of the event is what suprised me.

I've been using weak, cheesy builds mostly, always as a Random race. I think I have a 6-8 Win - Loss ratio. During my last game in Gold, I actually tried to play the zerg as they are meant to be played. Three times out of five, my opponent was the favored to win.

In short, it doesn't really look like the system was giving me weaker and weaker opponents just to stop bumping me down when I hit the skill level where I can beat others. It really just looks and feels wierd to have the change happen at this time.

Also, something like a six-game auto-review seems like an inferior deciding mechanic. Why 6, of all things? Why not have one happening every five games? Or after every match? If a system like this is in work, then why do we even have personal ratings?

All-in-all, it still seems chaotic to me. Ofcourse, I'm not the one to complain. If I actually deserve to be in the Gold leauge, I'll get there... eventually. :)

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Originally Posted by Maxa

Right, that's the only way I could imagine Bnet grading players on anything like an overall trend. Something like that should be easily verifiable, since if 6-game increments are the key then everyone should be leveling up or down when their total games played is a multiple of 6 (or 7, or 10, or some other divisor).

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Also for all we know it may not be after x games at all but a battle.net triggered system where every so often it goes through and promotes people. I started out in copper and it promoted a large number at the top of my copper league at the same time to the same bronze league with me.

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Originally Posted by deloctyte

Also, something like a six-game auto-review seems like an inferior deciding mechanic. Why 6, of all things? Why not have one happening every five games? Or after every match?

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Nobody said it WAS every 6 matches. He just gave an example. We do not know exactly how it works.

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Originally Posted by Maxa

I'm not sure that makes sense; at least, it doesn't clear up the confusion. Suppose you're right, and shifts in placement are not assessed on a game-by-game basis. That just raises the question: Why now? Clearly something prompted G2slurp's promotion following his loss. There has to be a reason that he was moved to gold at that point, and not at another point. So what was it exactly?

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maybe alot of people got pushed down to silver

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Originally Posted by deloctyte

Anywho, I just won a mach after roughly...I think four or five losses in a row. At the initial placement, I was ranked lower-Gold (Rank 70-60) and I've been slipping under 70 slightly. Still I fought on, and finally got myself the aformentioned win.

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I'm not really sure what the problem here is. You lost 4 or 5 matches and only won 1, so the system placed you into a league that better matches your skill level.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

I'm not really sure what the problem here is. You lost 4 or 5 matches and only won 1, so the system placed you into a league that better matches your skill level.

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One would think that rankings exist for a reason. That losses and wins are what move your rank higher or lower on the given leauge, and if you are at the very bottom, and keep loosing, you'd slip to the top of the previous leauge. Doesn't that make more sense then elevating and droping players this way and that?

As I said, I'm not claiming I'm good enough for the gold leauge, but I was still keeping myself between the 60 and 70 ranks. It doesn't look like a logical step to do!

It definitely doesn't work the way you just desceibed delo. I was 70's in bronze lost a few, won one like you, and got demoted to copper. I was at 47 in copper. The ladder is done by points, not wins and losses. If I don't play for a week and my bonus pool gets real high, and in the meantime the rest of the league plays every day getting a few points for each win, when I come back I have a lot of "favored" opponents to play against. This will lead to me getting upwards of 40-50 points per win, shooting me up in rank. When you look at my record I may have 15 wins and 7 losses and have, let's say 1000 points for a nice easy number. The few people ahead of me may have 45 wins and 23 losses but have similar points because they've been continuously playing but getting lower points per win.

Your points are all that are tabulated when placing you in your ladder rank. The real pseudo-mystery is how you get placed in what league.

I can see that they don't work the was I said they "should". All I was saying is that, from my perspective, would be the most logical and straighforward system Blizzard could've worked with. Everyone could understand it, and you'd have a proper warning if you are truly wanting.

While I understand the need to cloud the system so people cannot abuse it, men (and women) flying left and right through the leauges just like that seems and feels chaotic, out of control, and much more like being stuck on a boat in a stormy stream without the paddle instead of a clear overview of exactly where you currently stand.

As soon as Blizzard clears the system up a bit, or someone makes an app that can track all the B.Net players and makes a linear leaderboard, I'll stop all and any sort of critique.

I'd rather know that I'm the 2 331 211-th Player than messing around with something I cannot oversee enough.

So lessen of the story

Click furiously throughout the match to rank up.