http://starcraft2.ingame.de/sc2cl/?m...&id=102427&p=1
pathetic.
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Why is this pathetic?
I agree with the logic - i always ignored chat b/c of the dumb spam. If they can make something spam free and with a specific purpose I will wait gladly.
I think it was a miscalculation to have NO multi-party chat integrated into the system from the get-go and they realize it. But throwing a band-aid at the problem when they're working on a surgical approach isn't the answer, I think. We just have to bear it out. Not being one who participates in too many tournaments, I don't think I'm going to lose too much by the lack of this functionality in the meantime, and I know I'll gain a TON when the new one is online, whenever that is.
Dustin's a really likeable guy, though. I always feel bad after criticizing this or that about the multiplayer game, because I do know the team really DOES want the game to succeed. Sigh. Such's the nature of the besat.
I actually empathise with Blizz on this. BNET is full of stuff that needs work and they are actively working on it. Adding that to the plate is a whole new issue that simply does not have time to be dealt with simultaneously with their other responsibilities. As long as it is on their list to do later on, I agree with them for not shipping the chat room feature.
The interviewer was kind of not thinking when he shows his disappointment instead of support. Blizzard needs some wiggle room to get stuff out to us. there is going to be a patch after ship that theyre working on right now, and on top of that there is a great deal of testing before launch.
We should all support Blizz on this, and quit being so whiny about it like we're all in kindergarten and didn't get our share of the cake...
Hm. Well, I have to say, clan-maintained chat channels (although bot-managed) were pretty darn nice. Private channels (ones that you make up yourself such as channel "sheep" or something else like that) weren't bad since spammers don't exactly know which channel is saturated with users. Just the public channels (the default ones you pop into when you start up chat) were pretty bad.
So just have the support channel, and private channels. Problem solved. Mostly.
We already have private channels. There's just a limit on the number of people that can be in one at any given time.Quote:
Originally Posted by LostDreams
No need to have chat, you want to talk to random people (if it's not total spam) go somewhere else. This game is meant to be played..
There's better ways, maybe the default room when you login is filled with friends and friends of friends..but the old system didn't work.
It's not pathetic, cry more.
I don't think people care about the default channels. It should work more like an IRC network with channels made by the community. Clans and communities should be able to have their own channels. A chat channel is the basic way of communicating over an online game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamshank
To quote the article:
He never said chat will not be brought back, but instead that they wish to improve upon it. I agree the old chat channels were just a conduit for advertisements and spam. There's opportunity for evolution here and I'm gonna wait and see what they have in store for us.Quote:
Well, we're working on the chat channels but the reason they are delayed is that we have something, which we think is much better than what we had in the original games. In the original games the chat channels were used by some of our users but they were largely misused just for spam. It was kind of a mess that they weren't focused on only one particular topic. While we definitely feel the fans sort of enthusiasm to get them back, we don't want those chat channels back. We feel like those chat channels were not a huge success for us and we can do them much better. So we will be looking into chat channels down the road that are more focused on specific topics, that are better organized around different social structures. We could certainly just jam the old channels back in but we didn't feel like those were a huge success for us. But we really want this thing back, just much more interesting than before. So we're definitely working on it and we definitely hear the users' complains, but we think we can do better down the road.
I have to agree, but at the same time, the fact that they didn't include, well, anything, makes the whole thing just feel horribly disconnected. I mean, I've made about zero friends in my entire time on b.net 2.0, while in b.net 1.0 this would be no issue. When I buy the game, it will inevitably still feel like a beta client, instead of what battle.net 2.0 should have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by pure.Wasted
Maybe they'll add a "rematch" feature, or something else to at least have a way to play more than 1 game with a person you met on the ladder.
When you GG you can say "hey, that was fun, want to add me as a friend so we can play some more games together?". If you really want to rematch randoms just put them on your friends list.
Well I hope they put something back into the game where the masses can go. On bnet1 I always thought I was with tons of people everywhere. Here with bnet2, where they want to get everyone "connected", I've never felt so isolated in my e-life. Ironic, isn't it?
Ha, that is true. If I get tired of playing I just shut the game down. On SC1 I would spend time chatting with other people and eventually be up for another game.Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bonicPlague
So I read this in the news. It's an interview with blizzard.Quote:
Q:In contrast to the campaign the new Battle.Net is probably a huge disappointment for a lot of the fans. That's on the one side because of the fact that features we know from the original Battle.Net won't be included and on the other side, we have to read news, that even the social networking website facebook will in some way be included. So what can you tell fans who say "Just give us chat channels now and leave it with the other stuff"?
A:Well, we're working on the chat channels but the reason they are delayed is that we have something, which we think is much better than what we had in the original games. In the original games the chat channels were used by some of our users but they were largely misused just for spam. It was kind of a mess that they weren't focused on only one particular topic. While we definitely feel the fans sort of enthusiasm to get them back, we don't want those chat channels back. We feel like those chat channels were not a huge success for us and we can do them much better. So we will be looking into chat channels down the road that are more focused on specific topics, that are better organized around different social structures. We could certainly just jam the old channels back in but we didn't feel like those were a huge success for us. But we really want this thing back, just much more interesting than before. So we're definitely working on it and we definitely hear the users' complains, but we think we can do better down the road.
I think this idea for chat channels is just plain dumb. Blizzard is trying to force us to do too much, make clean names that don't refer to drugs or anything inappropriate, will moderate us if we offend someone rather then telling them to suck it up and /ignore his ass like everyone else has done for the past 12 years. I think they need to back off a little and let the community be. I enjoyed entering random channels where people could be talking about anything and I could run into anyone. Channels are required for tournaments (They are a pain in the ass to organize right now and you can't advertise it in the usual channels because there are none) and clans and simply finding games with good gamers rather then just playing ladder all the time. This is generally a good way to get better because some players will actually tell you why you lost. In match making your lucky to get a gg outta the players.
I think the chat channels were fine the way they were and were a success. They made channels with topics in their names before and you know what everyone did? Join their own private channels because we don't need blizzard to be fuckin around in the cookie jar. They need back off.
Dustin is completely right on this issue. Bnet chat sucked, and I hated it. I hated all the spam, I hated the lack of basic features, and I hated having to be in game to use it.
People have been getting by without a built in game chat for decades. It's called IRC, and it's in every way superior to what we had with bnet chat. Practically every other game community in existence has gotten by just fine with irc, and we can too.
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CURVYCAMGIRL
I think it's still a dumb idea to not have chat channels. Every one of my online friends came from the StarCraft chat channels. We've kept that friendship up for over 10 years now. If the current system existed back then, we would have never met up because it is literally impossible to get any relationship going in the current system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctis
That's what irks me. There is just no way to interact with anyone reliably.
Or they could just make battle.net have a chat system that works like IRC...Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD
Its not something as simple as you would think, it requires severs and maintenance and more, its much more of a hassle, on the development side, to recreate an IRC, than to use IRC already.Quote:
Originally Posted by winner0274
I understand its better as a player to have this feature... but they are a company trying to earn money as well (and reach a deadline as well), and that is an expense they rather not have at this point in time.
Stupid people will complain about everything. What happens when they patch a much better system in than party chat?
They are way ahead of the game here and they know what they're doing. The solutions they're coming up are way easier and faster to use.
It's another reason why they're so big.
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Originally Posted by HistoryX
Quoted for Truth
Which is why Dustin appologized for dissapointing fans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wankey
A better feature got delayed. He apologizes for the delay. They have much bigger fish to fry than chat systems. Chat systems don't make money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wankey
Like facebook mmright? :rolleyes:
Also explain how the community feeling connected from launch when esports has its best (and possibly only) chance of taking of in US isnt good for making money?
Facebook helps get the new users all connected. Chat channels would hardly do jack at launch. I can say right now I would probably never use them if its a copy/paste of traditional chat channels. 90% of them weren't even occupied, everyone hung out in the default gateways.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
I'm not saying Facebook is an amazing innovative feature that is critical to the success of Starcraft 2, but Chat channels certainly isn't going to be pushing E-sports in the US. Hell, I don't see E-sports growing in our country for a very very long time.
Chat channels would do that too. Instead of battlenet 2.0 feeling like the cold void.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoonx
Bnet 2.0 is a continual dissapointment. Even small things typical of Blizzard polish are absent. Who here misses moving portraits like in Warcraft 3?
I know that Blizzard can and should do better. Why? Because theve done better before.
Interesting enough Archer, this quote is exactly the same mentality that Dustin brought up. It's a shame that it's not available at launch, but in the whole scheme of things, 1 year down the line, people will forget about how it wasn't there at release.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
Let's look at the decision in the realistic view, what's done is done and can't be undone. They have polish, bugs, and balance to handle at this point. They have two choices:
1. Delay the game launch and implement chat channels at launch
2. Launch the game at the announced date and release chat channels in a content patch.
No matter what argument or belief you have, understand that the choices came down to this option. I don't know about you, but I'd rather wait for a content patch and play the game. If I want to chat, I'll log on Trillian, IRC, come here, stream or click "add friend" when I am done with the game.
Sorry if the tone of this message is a bit harsher than I normally throw out, I want chat channels as much as the next person... but I see more bitching about how it is not available NOW, instead of seeing the big picture that it _IS_ coming.
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Originally Posted by Gifted
Your absolutly right. Whats done is done. But the fact of the matter is that Blizzard made a couple of huge mistakes with BNET. Mistakes that should have been fixed long ago. Not at the next expansion. I agree that at this point shipping the thing may be the best option. But that doesnt change the fact that in this case Blizzard DID NOT live up to Blizzards usual high quality.
And that is just sad.
One other (and perhaps equally disturbing) thing is that if this were another past Blizzard project and it was missing such a key feature I cant help but feel Blizzard would delay the game even further. Theve remade engines and scrapped entire games.
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1...aft__super.pnghttp://ps2media.gamespy.com/ps2/imag...8031404113.jpg
Blizzard has prided itself on getting it right and not shipping till they do. That has always been what Blizzard has been about. When its ready. And the cold barren shell of BNET 2.0 is most definatly not ready. Maybe by EA or Activision standards, but not by Blizzard standards.
Ask yourself, would they old Blizzard have shipped Starcraft 1 without chat channels?
Well, they have delayed it multiple times, moreso than any other game (publically), There's a point where no matter what, another delay is not a viable option. I can see both sides on the matter, but ultimately, outside of their MMO, this is the first game with planned "content patches". This model alone allows them to release the game now and release content later.
If you think about it as a "complete game with only balance patches" then yes, you can say that it's a bad path to go. But ultimately, they've made a design decision to include content patches in this game. This decision allows for them to release the game at an adequate time and refine the options they have instead or rushing them out of the door.
Ultimately, if Blizzard was NOT the quality company that you are referring to, we would have chat channels like SC1, despite the fact they know that it wasn't going to be more than a spam haven. So many other developers would have done so. The decision to delay this feature to a content patch alone supports the fact that they are still the same company... just looking at the picture in a more global perspective than someone who decides to judge the game upon release alone. (Not pointing fingers at you specifically Archer, that was a more general thought)
BTW, regarding your "would SC1 been released without chat channels"... the gaming industry and it's progress was significantly differen 12+ years ago. Chat rooms were the thing back then, AOL was based on the ease and ability to chat. Don't underestimate the fact that we have the ability to communicate via the IM system... it's like finding the smartest kid with down syndrome... but it's still adequate until the content patch is release... whether you like to admit it or not.
I don't think it would be fair to compare Bnet of 1998 to Bnet2.0 development which is planned to encompass all their games at some point in time.
I do agree as far as Blizzard quality goes in the overall scheme of Battle.net 2.0; it's not 100%. As far as the game is concerned? I think that is more than ready to be released. So if they can push the game out now and continue to work on other features down the line, that would be a far better option than to delay the game for Chat channels. I still stand by my point that the silly Facebook implementation will end up doing its job far more efficiently than could be done via chat commands.
I never use chat channels myself, but I also don't think that concerns about spam and bots are as big a problem as people make them out to be. Ultimately, if you aren't interested in chat channels, just don't use them. On the other hand, if you want to chat at least conventional channels make that an option--in other words, it can only be a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted
I'm all for coming up with something better than SC1 or WC3-style channels, but the argument that releasing SC2 with chat channels would somehow make the game worse strikes me as confused.
Gifted tell me. What is the problem with implementing SC1 chat channels now (the kind that Blizzard was able to make with much less time and money in 1998) and then upgrading it when they have the "Groups" content ready?
I would imagine thats like popping in an old mother board with a odd-ball PCI slot only to end up having to switch the whole board out later on down the line for the improved card.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
I guess what I'm getting at is that it would end up as messy work and not as easy as it sounds.
*Shrug* Not like I know much about coding, just a thought.
It's important to realize that the way gamers communicate has changed completely. Look at other major platforms such as steam. None of them have public chat channels. It's because people simply don't want to use them anymore. These developers stopped using public chat a long time ago because they realized all the problems with it. It's a lot of resources to moderate and keep going. It's just not worth it to include.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted
I reject the notion that adding chat would somehow make the game more polished or complete. I say this because the lack of chat makes battle.net 2.0 BETTER not worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur
What continues to irk me about this whole line of discussion is everyone's unwillingness to adapt. There is absolutely no disadvantage to using IRC. I feel that many are upset simply because something has changed, and fail to realize that we are all better off without it. If you want to have a chat channel then start an IRC room, or talk in ours!
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Best Bag Vaporizer
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Originally Posted by TWD
They had non-bnet chat channels in 1998 too ;)
Im not going to sit here and defend why chat channels are important for the battlenet experience. The community knows their good and Blizzard knows there good (hence why they are adding them). Whats up for debate is when they are being implemented and why they took so long to be implemented.
Only thing I can say is they are attempting something new for Chat channels, not the stuff we are used to. O.oQuote:
Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur