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From my browsing I've found that many times people offer strategies (some good, some bad) that are usually relevant to a certain division of play. It would be nice to implement into the forum the players' division (and rank?). If not, maybe we can start stating our division or putting it in our sigs when participating in strategy discussions.
So we can be elitist and ignore the opinion of anyone under platinum like Team Liquid?
Brilliant.
Everyone should get an equal say in how best to play no matter how wrong they are. Personally I think PvZ is imbalanced since the enemy always kills me before i can fast tech to broodlords.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
I also think PvZ is imbalanced because I can kill them before they get Brood Lords.
The point, which you tried to make fun of but failed miserably at (as usual) because of your eltism, is that people at the lower levels can still have valuable insight into the game even if their technical skill isn't up to par with the pros. If PvZ at the lower levels had a 90% win rate for the P, its as legitimate an issue as if Z had a 90% win rate vs P in platinum. Somewhere, there's a problem that must be rectified.
It's not necessary. If you are posting on this board you have the capacity to filter out what is good advice and what isn't for yourself. You really don't need to know how good the person is to determine if the strategy might work for you.
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ShyMama cam
the point the OP is trying to make is wat strategies work at wat lvl, for example a silver player trying a platinums advice might fail him completely as he lacks the micro and macro management to get there in time. While a high lvl silver's advice can help the silver player alot more. IMO i think the OPs idea is a great idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD
Er, advice from anyone is free and only the person's judgment can tell the usefulness of it or not. Regardless of skill level, ideas/strats provided are not to be underestimated, but once they're tried out, they can be "allowed" / "disallowed" for a certain level of play. BUT, until then, it's all fair game.
Just saying.
PS:
My opinion?
Back up your shit with replays, if you're giving out a strat/build. Even if poorly executed, the idea is still there, and if it is interesting enough a higher skilled player can try it and provide a more accurate picture wrt the strat's viability.
Uhh, blizzard doesn't value the opinion of anyone under plat very much either... Look for it, they have stated that it is the plat league that is balancing this game. Plat isn't even that good..
I think bliz needs a league (not invite only) above plat that you cannot get placed into. The bottom of plat and the top are like 2 completely different leagues.
You couldn't be any more wrong. If i told some newbie to kill 1 lurker with 1 marine, he might have a bit of trouble. But sc2 is as easy as ripping off a plat's build order. Sc2 is easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinX
You see some things that could benefit your game may not make you good right away, might even make you play shittier for a bit. For instance in korea you are forced to perfect your hotkey usage, this is called mechanics. When somone says that guy is a very mechanical player, they mean he just hotkeys everything like a mofo and does pure macro. There isn't much skill or intelligence put into being a mechanical player, it's just practice practice practice.
If you are smart enough to rip off a strategy from a high level gamer like most people that think they are good do, you must practice it over and over to perfect it. Starcraft is all about perfection, even more so now that sc2 is easy as pie to play. The gap between good gamers and newbs is a lot smaller then in bw but it's still pretty big.
I disagree, an opener may be standard but that does not dictate the game. It is like a gambit in chess. You try not to fail in the first 5 minutes of the game and the tech path is extremely linear in early game. Supply Depot or Barracks hmm. Starcraft 2 is all about the mid game where you react to what your opponent is doing it is not about just perfecting a single build and not being able to change. That is what separates a platnium player from a copper player being able to effectively react to what your opponent is doing built upon a solid foundation of macro game mechanics. I mean supply depot at 10 racks at 11 then you have scouted the enemy and you can modify your build from there. A good example and I can provide a replay was when my opponent (protoss) went Forge fast expand and I went with my first racks rush to tech lab to get some marauders (standard play) when I noticed the FE I went straight into reapers and build a bunker out of view of his nexus then I microed my reapers and took it down. I then used the advantage to macro a marine ball off 3 rack and pushed through his back door to win. Sticking to a static game plan would have lost me that game, but instead thinking on my feet gave me the upper hand.
The first 5 minutes are all but linear. You must perfectly get everything as fast as possible. The goal in the begining is to make your econ as stable as possible and to get your buildings and scvs exactly when you should while harassing them with your scout to try and screw up their opening. For progamers in bw, so much as 1 scv being off the minerals when it could be mining effects the game while at a non professional level it it may not make a difference.
I never said use only 1 strategy i said perfect the strategy. SC is all about doing things as perfect as possible so you get every little advantage as possible. At a certain level your not gonna out macro your opponent and walk over them because they'll macro just as good as you are. You'll have to then be able to slow their econ down by harassing and still macroing. That is the difference between a gold and a plat. Gold may be able to macro, but plat knows how to use the units and what strategys to use.
But honestly.. there needs to be a league you have to play to get promoted to rather then get placed there. Plat is really bad... anyone can get into plat.
Being good at sc2 is as easy as keeping up with what unit does well against what and just thinking smart.
interesting points but sc2 is even out yet, and how many players are in the beta? can the beta really be a good indication of if the game is easy or not? I think what are are you are trying to say is the game is fragile, as in at any given moment, a couple wrong moves or decisions can change the game dramatically, so then even a lower level player can somehow pull an upset vs a stronger player.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAoS
easy is very relative and you have used BW as its comparison, now i was never that into BW bnet since my connection was shit but i played alot with direct lan connections with friends who play on bnet, i wasnt any good at all but BW seemed like a much harder game than anything else I could have played 10 years ago. Again im not sure if sc2 is "easy" but I will have to wait until the game comes out.
I think division is a good idea. The differences in skill between the divisions are pretty high. We don't need to not know what division someone is in order to listen to them. Platinum players don't know everything, and some strategies work great in silver and fail in Platinum. That being said, the people here are decent enough that if they go to someone for help they won't reject it simply because they're in a lower division than they are. Or skip out on what may be a valuable strategy out of hubris. In doing so, they would only hurt their own play.
I'm gold. Not entirely sure I belong here but I'm certain I don't belong in platinum. I was platinum at first by winning all 5 placement matches and then got schooled in a variety of ways. Banshee rush, early hydras, void ray rush(TWICE, by platinum players! Who would have expected that?)
The best advice I have is some that I've gained from other players. Always be making probes/scvs/drones. When you expand you'll be so saturated that you can instantly move some of them. Set your Nexi on hotkeys so that you can build probes while fighting. 50min is not a big spend at any point in the game, even for the entire game. The economic advantage will be strong enough that your army can benefit. That being said, of course you build an army as well. And expand when the fields get saturated or once you start to run low on gas if you have a tech heavy build.
You'll point out some flaws in this strategy as there are flaws in every strategy but this works incredibly well. It's only an economic strategy but half this game is economics.
Well once you get good at the game you won't be making scvs and probe the whole game (drones ya never make the whole game, you just power drone by casting larvae from queens and suddenly you have a shit load and need to learn to judge when you have enough) you'll be making them till it seems like you have enough and ya feel if you keep making more it will hurt the population of your army. The reason why some strategys work better at silver then at plat is because of the skill of the player. Like all the way up to plat I can win the game with banshee rushing, but by the time you get to plat they start scouting with changelings, get observers and scan at the right time.
Getting use to using startegys that only work at a low level of play is a bad habit to get into. What are you gonna do when you get to plat? You want to be practiced with strategys that can work at all levels.
Getting back to the OP's original suggestion -
I think it's a great idea. On top of being a cool graphic addition, it could help forum members find others of like skill level so that they could play together.
And if you want to use it to judge the "quality" of a person's strategy post, go ahead. If you don't believe that their division rank has anything to do with the type of feedback and strategy advice they provide, ignore the rank.
Back before some retarded hacker took down PGT, they use to have siggys with your rank for both 1v1 and 2v2 along with your record. They were a nice addition to use on forums and to show off while you post.
For instance my rank and stats change wayyy too offten for me to include it in a siggy or w/e and somone would have to look it up in order to tell if I was lying or not. After PGT went down suddenly there was a crap load of A+ gamers
I don't think it would be too difficult for most players to update their ranks. Once things get settled down after the initial few weeks post-launch I doubt people will be going up and down leagues that often.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAoS
About people lying and ranks needing verification... I guess you could lie about your rank, but what's the point?
People lie all the time lol it's just what people do. Some lie about their rank to scare others before a game some do it to feel like they are good at something while some do it just because no one takes a newb's opinions seriously because they generally have no idea what they are talking about.. that's usually why they are newbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extranjero
Let's not forget that we're debating whether or not to add a graphic that denotes someone's rank. That being said, if people want to lie about their division rank, they can lie with or without a nice little graphic that denotes their rank. So that's really a moot point.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAoS
All I can see are positives, such as how players would find it easier to connect with similarly skilled players on these forums. If the programming or whatever is simply too difficult, tedious, or not worth the programmer's time, then that's a legit point in favor of not adding it. But I don't see how having it would make the site worse in any way.
I understand what your trying to do, but its hard to do this without creating some type of elitism.
Silver strats may work in silver, but not in plat and vis versa, if you need help in a certain division, you can also include that in your OP and maybe you will attract the right players to response.
You needed to scout more in bronze then you need in silver. That's strange.
You'll se more of the early-reaper/mutas/voidray there then in silver. (It's good for me though) But then in gold the need of scout starts to increase again with early massing of units, or the "cheesier" hide your barracks nearbyrush.
-> my tip, vs zerg get ghost's. Only way to effecient counter mutas.
Ghosts... only way to effeciently counter mutas? What about thors? Or Hunter seeker Missle?
the relative ease of a strategy vs the ease of the counter can differ between tiers. I remember the "muta" scare back pre-brood war, because mutas were so easy but everyone else had to be careful. They weren't that hard to counter, but they were easier to do then to counter unless you were a good player.
The top players all played Terran, but the moderates won more with Zerg.