Crazy Idea: Give MS interceptors, remove the Carrier (model) and bring back the Arbie

1. Carrier Model Sucks
2. Mothership is too much like the arbiter

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1a. Why not give the Carrier the Mothership's model/Turn the MS into an Interceptor Carrier?
1b. Maybe buff it with more Interceptors and make it cost more.
1c. Maybe give it the planet cracker, as suggested in this thread: http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3596 (Personally, i suggest a MS can be refit with a planet cracker or interceptor bays individually)
1d. So now, the Mothership's role is a heavy assault capital ship.

2a. Nerf the current mothership and give it an arbiter model.
2b. Same abilites, but weaken the attack, like the old arbie.
2c. So the old support caster is back.

Too Crazy?

Note: OR MS would still be that single unit. Its just that its awesomeness would be more focused on its attack power, giving it more interceptor capacity. And maybe an armor/hp increase and a speed buff. Sort of like the MS now + 3-4 carriers, but without the support abilities.

The arbiter would be a multi-build-able support unit.

No more mass carriers.

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Originally Posted by don

Too Crazy?

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Too crazy.

In my opinion the Mothership needs-More attack speed,Replace the Mass Recall with Mass Teleport with an AoE as the Cloacking field,And give it a little bit more shields probably something like 500/300 or 450/350,Mass Teleport will have the name Wormhole transit,and will be both cool and usefull,and of course Mothership will not be an gigantic arbiter...

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Jonny

Too crazy.

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But is crazy=bad for you?

Well I agree the mothership needs work, but giving it the carrier's role while bringing back the arbiter isn't ideal. Also if they were to completely scrap the mothership and bring back the arbiter in some form, i would much prefer they use the old star relic model. That being said, just swapping out some mothership abilities could easily fix the unit and make it unique and useful again.

I think they should just move the mothership to Single-player, and bring back the arbiter, or something else that we can sneak around corners.

MS currently is really too bulky.

I agree the MS needs to be single player only. Let's get a new useful unit.

On a side note, scrap the Carrier and get two new air units. Let's completely remake the boring played out Protoss airforce.

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Originally Posted by Operatoring

I agree the MS needs to be single player only. Let's get a new useful unit.

On a side note, scrap the Carrier and get two new air units. Let's completely remake the boring played out Protoss airforce.

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Yeah, I think we all have thought about letting the Protoss have a massable caster air unit but Blizzard is dead set against it.

It really makes me curious wondering if Dustin is behind a lot of the super unit and C&C ideas, or if one of the top artists guys are. Or is it the silent group of SC2 developers that want to bring scrapped concepts from SC1's development into its sequel?

MS need a support spell like energy recharge or shield recharge to make super duper combo with HT and immortal. No combo, no fun.

General rule of helpful game suggestions.

1)If you have two problems, and one of them is a cosmetic problem which is highly opinionated, creating a seven part solution that reworks a third of a classes tech tree is not the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Asfastasican

Yeah, I think we all have thought about letting the Protoss have a massable caster air unit but Blizzard is dead set against it.

It really makes me curious wondering if Dustin is behind a lot of the super unit and C&C ideas, or if one of the top artists guys are. Or is it the silent group of SC2 developers that want to bring scrapped concepts from SC1's development into its sequel?

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Whoohoo! Good old Dustin bashin'!

Seriously, I never really thought bringing in Dustin was a swell idea cause none of the games he lead-designed can hold a candle to anything Blizzard made post-console era.

But I must say, apart from suspected screw-ups like the mothership (Thor has come round in my opinion, though it could be better) he seems to have been infected with some Blizzard virus that just wants him to make SC2 into a kick-ass game: anyone who's read his 'meteor-comment' will know what I'm talking about.

Something just occurred to me:

The MS is currently kind of overgrown piece of mobile base defense, because you can't really get it anywhere unless you're really stealthy. BUT! Maybe this has been Blizzards intention.

See, protoss for me has always been about utilising your units and resources in the most effective way. "Well, duh", I can hear you say, "that goes for every race." Of course that's true. But anyone who remembers the old strategy essays by Dragon-something knows that toss is about educated gambles, because you can't rebuild an army fast like zerg or mass gianormous amounts of long-range easily droppable firepower easily like Terran. Doomdrops were done with Arbiters in SC1.

Of course, warp-gates have alleviated the issue of 'cannot rebuild real fast' a little bit for the protoss, and combined with warp-in via phase prism this has led to protoss being able to be a little less cautious with how they expend their units.

But still, the fact remains that protoss units, while powerful, are much more costly overall than the units of the two other races. This is were the Mothership fits in. The Mothership provides an outnumbered protoss to turn the tide of a defensive battle by helping you utilise your powerful, expensive units even better. So with less units, you can defend your base easily and so you can counter hard after you've won the defensive battle, thanks to your superior support in the form of the MS.

I have to admit, I don't have beta-key so I'm a replay-jockey, but this seems to be how the Mothership is used and I think it does fit the traditional protoss playstyle.

Is the MS ready for improvement? Hell yes. But it's not all that bad as it is.

Crazy Idea: Get rid of Mothership

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Originally Posted by Sietsh-Tenk

The MS is currently kind of overgrown piece of mobile base defense, because you can't really get it anywhere unless you're really stealthy. BUT! Maybe this has been Blizzards intention.

See, protoss for me has always been about utilising your units and resources in the most effective way. "Well, duh", I can hear you say, "that goes for every race." Of course that's true. But anyone who remembers the old strategy essays by Dragon-something knows that toss is about educated gambles, because you can't rebuild an army fast like zerg or mass gianormous amounts of long-range easily droppable firepower easily like Terran. Doomdrops were done with Arbiters in SC1.

Of course, warp-gates have alleviated the issue of 'cannot rebuild real fast' a little bit for the protoss, and combined with warp-in via phase prism this has led to protoss being able to be a little less cautious with how they expend their units.

But still, the fact remains that protoss units, while powerful, are much more costly overall than the units of the two other races. This is were the Mothership fits in. The Mothership provides an outnumbered protoss to turn the tide of a defensive battle by helping you utilise your powerful, expensive units even better. So with less units, you can defend your base easily and so you can counter hard after you've won the defensive battle, thanks to your superior support in the form of the MS.

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This sounds alright until you realize that the Mothership is literally a Slower and more expensive Arbiter. The only reason to really get one is if you are setup well in terms of economy. If you are fighting an uphill battle, I doubt Mothership will cross your mind. It takes a long time to build and costs a shit-ton.

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Originally Posted by Operatoring

This sounds alright until you realize that the Mothership is literally a Slower and more expensive Arbiter. The only reason to really get one is if you are setup well in terms of economy. If you are fighting an uphill battle, I doubt Mothership will cross your mind. It takes a long time to build and costs a shit-ton.

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I don't think you have read all of his post,It makes sense,and since the introduction of the sentry that is indeed the case,with smaller army you can take on a 200/200 Zerg army...Altough as i stated above Mass Recall is just too....i dunno .not atractive ability ,espesially on the mothership...I sure they will think of something,eventually...

solution is just...

remodel carrier(peter lee)

give the old abilitys mothership(black hole ,planet cracer,time bomb)

and bring back the arbiter with cool model...

Models and cosmetics aside, i feel protoss could use a better air-support unit that makes you go for stargate more ofen in the mid-game.

If they add arbiter again and remove the mothership from multiplayer(keeping it in singel player i guess?), there is nothing that says arbiter needs to have a personal cloaking field.
Just rename the arbiter and make a bunch of new and handy abilitys?

The Mothership's model is creating a lot of stress between giving it abilities worthy of its splendor and giving it abilities needed in the gameplay. If they would simply make the Mothership singleplayer only and bring back something like the Star Relic or Arbiter — or even something else entirely — then that stress would be gone. The Mothership would get the power it deserves and the Protoss would get the caster they need for multiplayer.

It's so friggin' simple, and yet they can't seem to figure it out.

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Originally Posted by scorpio19

solution is just...

remodel carrier(peter lee)

give the old abilitys mothership(black hole ,planet cracer,time bomb)

and bring back the arbiter with cool model...

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absolutely! - I just want the original MS from the first sc2 annoncement video about the Protoss. BH, PC, and TB. Day 1.

And i liked the idea of super carrier but i'm too in love with the carrier itself. can't scrap it.

In my personal opinion, i would rather have like 2-3 extra units per race anywayz. to increase the variety a little. i know it makes the balance waay harder to perfect- but i wolud love to have the carrier, ms, and arbiter in the 1 game instead of scraping 1 of them! and the Lurker must be put back in- seriously! the Lurker was like the coolest bw unit!

and i reckon the Terran's should have the firebats back and stuff. - even if the some units have similar or equal roles- maybe you can look at it this way, the difference of them is the model files. you now have 2 awesome models- some like one more than the other vice versa- like with the Dark Templar, or have they scratchedd the 2 model idea? i havent noticed.

But that's just my opinion. I'm very appreciative of Blizzard that they are including all the model files for the units mentioned above for the Glaxay Editor! - (Gunna have loads of fun with that power).

off topic- the new Terran Nuclear Bomb animation is mind blowing!! BOOM!

The whole Protoss air is stuffed up.

First there's the Void Ray. It's actually a good unit, good for rushes and hitting hard. But, the thing is, there's nothing to support it. That is, no good unit with the versatility.

The Phoenix, secondly, is the worst air support ever. Period. In BW, Corsairs were moreso built for their AoE ability rather than for harass, and even then, the attack was more than decent. The Phoenix isn't even half of that.

Third, like the Void Ray, the Carrier is, opposed to what i used to think, a good unit, when used in the right place, right time, and right mix. It just needs a bit of smart behind it. Nothing more. Sad to say it's only one of two.

Last, and least, is the Mothership. The one reason why teching to Protoss air fails. Don't take it out of the game. Replace it. Protoss, like all other races, need tech to get, so that they have a goal to go for. No-one really builds Carriers (from what Ive seen) because there's no point in getting the tech. The only reason people build the Fleet Beacon is so that one might research Flux Vanes. Even then, you're generally not going to mass Void Rays. And you're generally not going to throw a few Carriers in the mix either.
The thing that's really dumb about the Mothership is that, although it's the highest tech in the game, costs the most, is the slowest unit, and also the only unit where any one player can only have 1 of, all of its abilities basically spell out "Put me in the thick of it, where it'll take me 10 minutes to get to, where i'll waste my energy in 10 seconds flat, and where i'll be the biggest target ever."

Zomg, so painstaking to get, and the only spells are cloak, recall and vortex. These abilities may have been useful somewhere else, but not on the Motehrship.

This idea forwarded by the OP isn't new.

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I agree the MS needs to be single player only. Let's get a new useful unit.

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A month or two ago it was a VERY useful unit. That's why it was nerfed so much.

Honestly, I think if they dialed back a bit on how much they overnerfed it, it'd be fine. There's no need for the Arbiter or drastic changes like this.

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On a side note, scrap the Carrier and get two new air units. Let's completely remake the boring played out Protoss airforce.

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I thought they did... you know, the whole Void Ray and Phoenix thing...