[Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Hey guys, I've been wanting to start this thread for a while, but I didn't know what to begin with. I wanted something interesting, and I think this game displays a build that seems rather promising.
I'll add more to the list soon if you guys like them, and it could be pretty fun if you suggested gameplans and then I could try them out (I haven't tried your roach build yet XSoldier! :p).
Constructive criticism is more than welcome!
I play Zerg (currently top20 plat) and Terran (dunno, maybe low plat or high gold?), so suggest away :p
Alright here we go then!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay#1
Last night I read a Liquipiedia thread about Zerg openings, and how to handle ZvP (which had been giving me a bit of trouble because of sentries). I tried their strat and it looks promising. The sentries just aren't all that useful against this build, until he reaches a point where he doesn't have enough gas to even make the sentries.
It was my first try so a bunch of things are off, and I'm sure the fact that my build put him off guard was very helpful.
The player had a pretty high rank though, so I'm rather happy with this game. He was "favored", and top10 in his division iirc. Can't remember exact rank though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay#2
Here's another replay. It's the same opening but it's a ZvT which I had tons of fun playing. I tried to use nydus and burrowed roaches as much as possible. Too bad it didn't last any longer, I would have moved into BL (which I could have reached earlier, but whatever). I hope you enjoy watching this nearly as much as I enjoyed playing it!!
As usual, my upgrades were late and my macro sloppy, but to be fair, around the end I didn't really know where to look anymore. At the end of the replay I'm averaging ~85apm iirc, so I guess most of my attention was already used up. Got to get faster! Maybe the flu is slowing me down^^
PS: Sorry Todie, still no infestors :p Maybe I could have squeezed in some NP in this game but I couldn't really handle the babysitting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay#3
A fun little 2v2 with big mid-game armies clashing and some decisive caster usage. The opponents weren't good, but my ally was copper/silver so I was kinda always telling him when to make each building and stuff (and recommending HT was hard since he probably wouldn't have known how to use them). This game was tons fun to play. You should x6 it until the first big clash though, and then stuff starts getting fun with fights going on all over.
Not an amazing game, but for a 2v2 it's pretty entertaining.
This isn't so much a request for feedback, since it's mostly fooling around, but you might enjoy watching the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay#4
A hilarious ZvP where I was going for fast hydra but used the wrong hotkey and made an infestor pit instead! I only noticed my mistake when the building was done morphing and knew that the standard protoss immortal push was on its way, so I decided to just roll with it and use an infestor+zergling strat! Damn I thought I was screwed when I saw all those +1zealots running at my 0/0 zerglings...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay#5
Oh wow it's been an interesting day. This is a ZvP where I get my ass completely handed to me. What he did here was such a well thought strategy, and a great response to the slow early game Zerg has to cope with to be able to fight the immortal push. Definitely a great strat that revolves around an immortal push, warp-in usage, and a stalker-heavy army. An awesome follow-up after his expansion is blink with stalkers and the collossi he was making.
My micro was VERY weak (it's late :p), and I didn't tower up enough, but that's really because of a bunch of factors, including his nice overlord snipe. My bad for losing so many drones so idiotically. To be honest, I kind of gave up when i saw how well his push was going to work... shouldn't have i guess :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay#6
ZvP of me against MadPyro. Great game, very intense and lots of different units. Damn infestors/corruptors die fast to feedback!
If you're going to watch only one game from this thread, it should be this one ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replay#7
It seems very few Zerg play infestor heavy against Protoss.
Here is a random example of infestor play on metalopolis ZvP. I made nothing but zerglings, infestors and ultralisks.
I specifically love opening infestors because of how they prevent most air plays and are great in fighting FF usage (something which rapes lings badly).
http://screplays.com/replays/hammy/9960
last edit: removed obsolete links
Re: Hammy's replay & discussion thread!
im loving your scouting tecniques, though i geuss its really quite basic; stuff i should copy. - like sneaking that first zergling in, sintead of attempting to run by with all to scout while doing not-enough econ-damage to be worthwhile.. you scouted his tech and reacted with pure drones -> t2 rather than a stornger t1 defense that might have been needed against a more zealot-heavy opening?
your army manvouering was also spot on, but it was inevitable that he'd beat that first batch of hdyras- thoguh huge - once he had charge and storm ... i'd think you'd forsee that and fall back for some roach / ling bacup ( take the time to expand & secure map awarness)
... i geuss you beat him easily, by knowing what to do, and scouting + adapting in a smart & well executed way.. but even apart from teh shortcommings you mentioend, you could have beaten him in more ways.
... personaly, iinstincitvely open with speedlings, i feel i need them o be mre sure of aquiering the needed intel - and mobility against most kinds of suprisies. sicne teh patch, Immortals are more rare, and zealot/sentry/stalker pushes are more common, but so long as i dont get stupidly FF blocked at my ramp or something, it seems managable by ling / roach / 1-2 crawlers at nat.
a critical number of sentry with stalker can be a problem - gotta try to catch those in the open, and in theory, restrict FF-uility with roach burrowed movment, but in practise, i havnt done taht yet; main thing is to not overinvest in mutas if the enemy is sentry-heavy (without being reckless) .... ok taht wasnt so related.
look forward to some more games; im also T and Z atm, i guess im about high-silver with T and high gold with Z ... its quite different.
request: use infestors! for starters, with hydras against zealots: when you ahve the intitative, its SO powerful to catch a bunch of zealots with Fungal and move in with hydras (even more satisfying if you have ling +roach to swarm them with once frontline zealots are dead without killing a thing.)
Re: Hammy's replay & discussion thread!
My thoughts when having our armies clash while knowing I wouldn't crush him was that his production capabilities were low and I hadn't expanded yet.
My 3rd was veeery late (my bad), and he had two bases, so I felt like it would be better for me to force him to invest a LOT in army rather than infrastructures (a bit longer and he would have added like 3/4 gates imo) and then overpower him with a superior "new army".
It's true his army beat mine, but he barely had anything left. I don't know if that's a good thing though... Maybe it was a mistake.
A big error was underestimating the amount of energy his templar had. I didn't think some would have enough for 2 storms.
I didn't use ling backup because I was stupid and made a late evo (so I didn't have carapace). His lots would have raped the lings.
But as you said, my late expand and slow evo just limited my options, but I'm pretty happy with how this build allowed me power through.
I also normally go for speedlings/banelings to push back his initial push, but I just can't handle the players that know how to use FF really well. It was pretty frustrating to lose to such a simple strat but feel so helpless just because the guys nows where to click. With this hydra build, he can't move out efficiently until you start making enough hydra anyways (even with 3 gate, you only need to replace some drones with lings and watch out not to get your army split in half), so this method will automatically push him into a low sentry-count, which opens up tons of possibilites afterwards (too many HT or collossi means you can muta or mass upgraded-lings and own him).
I'm sure P will have a quick response for this build, but until the metagame evolves it looks nice.
Re: Hammy's replay & discussion thread!
I just tried a game where I went from hydra up to infestors. I thought it might work if I could immobilize his HT and dance around, but I couldn't scout him enough and he went for collossi. He attacked before I could even get the infestors but they wouldn't have changed much.
I got completely rolled. If he's got a robotics it seems a bit more safe to go through roaches first, before pumping out the infestors, or going straight for muta after hydra if he's going zealot/robotics heavy. One game isn't enough to gauge of course^^ Just my impressions. Besides, he seemed to be much better than me, so my chances were slim to begin with :p
Maybe next time!
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
colossi sight and range make it harder to use infestors; it makes more sense to go for roach / air to meet that first (though even then, i like adding infestors later)
as mentioned it makes more basic sense vs gateway units - zealots especially, but as you mention templars - assuming you can catch em off guard before getting killed by feedback (from burrow-move unexpected angle or high ground, you can Neural-parasite one templar to use it to feedback the rest. - the pararasited unit sint autoattacked so there's some time to work with. (additionally, i think you can neural the same unit with several infestors - though im not srue if thats bugged or not.)
finally, if ever annoyed by Air in any Zv MU, pin them down with Fungal and they are ridiculously easy pickings for Hydras.. mobility is so important for air, taking it away is just pwn.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Oh wow that seems pretty unrealistic against a player who isn't afk.
Neural parasite is a slow move, I really doubt I'd have the time to feedback his own HT before he feedbacks by infestor or at least storms my army. That silly tentacle movement is a bit of a problem. I've been trying infestors a lot today and I didn't really get to use neural parasite efficiently. I also tried infested terrans, but never got to use them in a game that wasn't already a win. Fungal growth always felt like a better option in those situations, but after thinking about it, I could imagine scenarios where infested terran can be used to bolster a force.
Yeah infestors are sweet against air, but I haven't been able to use them against vikings since the very first build.
With this build in ZvP, it looks like I lose in the long macro game if the Protoss was aiming for that to begin with. The fact that overlords no longer detect makes it really hard to repell well microed observers (and building spores is just silly...). I need to work on that more : )
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Another replay is online! I don't post many since I don't want to flood you guys and have you lose interest, but I think this game is pretty fun. Even if it revolves around roaches and hydra, I think my tactics worked pretty well! Hope you like it.
Edit: I edit all of the replays into the first post btw^^
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/1612
here's the link though
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
That was a nice ZvT ... fast hydra opening seems promising, but those first hdyras are valuable, so be careful with them and work on poitioning on highground for free hits when possible etc.
following up with roaches and attacking several fronts as once was sleek... we talked about this; if youre able to do this while keeping up macro a little better and mixing in even more unit types sooner / as needed, youll be in great shape vs even better players.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Yeah I really had tons of fun driving him crazy by attacking from different fronts (he was definitely raging a bit based on his comments) but as you said, I definitely need to mix up my unit composition more (throw in infestors more, get BLs faster etc...). My main concern is remembering to upgrade my units though.
As I said earlier on Bnet, i was pretty happy with the expansion timing, but I wasn't producing enough from them because of the aggression. Hope I get another good replay to post soon.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
New game! It's a silly 2v2. Check out the OP for more details :p
Here's the link again: http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/1853
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
New replay with lots of infestor usage! The P was well ranked and really freaked me out with his early pressure (delaying my expand and stuff).
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/1977
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
I just got owned so convincingly by a protoss that I thought I should share this replay.
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/1978
His strat revolved around a standard immortal timing attacking, but he added in a warp-prism to warp-in zealots in the back of my main. That way, I had to either split my army (and couldn't hold the front, big ass army at my gates), or move my whole army back, and then have a FF prevent me from saving my natural.
His quick collossus transition and great expansion timing are also noteworthy.
Of course there are flaws in his game, but you can remove those when you apply his great build ;)
Funny how he barely bothered his ramp, knowing that all Z respond to the immo push with fast hydra now, and that zerglings just don't cut it against too many sentries. He just didn't feel threatened at all. If all P are in this mindset, I guess it's time to revert to the good old bling/ling all-ins.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
prisms are generally underused; tehy are quite mobile, and very capable through warpin. you typically need some air units to repell them consistently.. i've only faced that as T, and edned up mostly blaming my own game, but i still see your point - ill most def watch these tomorrow or when i next have time.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Unfortunately, there's not way you can have air by the time the immo push gets there, and if you go down that path you'll get rolled by the attack anyways. A hydra rush is the only thing I've managed to pull off.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Just played a fantastic ZvP! Damn I'm exhausted now. Pretty cool to play a high-profile BW player though. We sparred for three games which were all pretty interesting, but the 3rd was definitely the best.
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/2180
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
It seems very few Zerg play infestor heavy against Protoss.
Here is a random example of infestor play on metalopolis ZvP. I made nothing but zerglings, infestors and ultralisks.
I specifically love opening infestors because of how they prevent most air plays and are great in fighting FF usage (something which rapes lings badly).
http://screplays.com/replays/hammy/9960
This definitely isn't one of my best games but I'd be happy to hear some feedback.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
note that people need an account on that site in order to even download your replay from it.
luckily i remembered my PW so i was able to watch. was a few days ago now so i cant recall all the details.
i definitely enjoyed the watch but i still feel like straight up infestor + zergling play is quite risky.
for starteers, his initial timing push wasnt very crisp - great job taking down the first & second proxy pylons rather quickly, but that can just as easily fail.. you would have held it more easily & boosted your econ quicker afterwards had you used your 2nd queen faster.
later on you were able to catch clusters with fungal in a very nice way, especially from the highground, and on the zealots.. its much less useful vs a stalker heavy force.
in theory i geuss, youll be able to fight /deter stalkereheavy play with masses of lings; if you plan on doing this youll definately want to get more hatcheries sooner though.
... i sound critical, but i mostly just like being safe; sure, go infestor, but why not add a roach warren too? especially if youre getting burrow anyway...
... the window before you get your first infestors with energy is a dangerous one - especially if you are only using lings. still, this can also be around the time you want to grab a 3rd base, so its delicate. roach support play dont need to be very heavy on gas, and works well with lings; Roaches are something to fall back on.. you know, its something to take some hits, not least if they tech up to colossi or HT/archon.
... i feel naked going bare lings + infestor. but im probably teching to ultras too slowly.
moar games plz.
peace.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Thanks for the feedback Todie.
You're absolutely right that the timing right before the first infestor is tricky (I've lost a few games right as my infestor pops out) but you have to keep in mind that some builds can work if they're tweaked enough. It all comes down to timing and getting the right units at the right time. I failed a lot at this before I got it right, and it's been serving me well these days.
You say that fungal wouldn't have been as good against stalker heavy play, but that's what the lings are for imo, and roaches wouldn't have helped very much.
Against a fast robo, I love having those infestors out anyways since I can NP the first batches of collo/immortal (mostly defensively, since it's easier to pull off).
I'm not sure I understand why you need roaches though, but I'm all open to suggestions. I didn't use roaches in ZvT until a few weeks ago, and my ZvT is getting more and more roach heavy.
edit: haha I just checked the OP... good old days where plat was the highest league and everyone was on top of his division : p
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hammy
I'm not sure I understand why you need roaches though, but I'm all open to suggestions. I didn't use roaches in ZvT until a few weeks ago, and my ZvT is getting more and more roach heavy.
long story short, i need ability to hatch me some roaches to fend of a well timed & crisply executed 4gate.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
Meh lings ftw. If I can get just one fungal before the 4gate gets in I'm golden and already half way to ultras.
Haven't faced a good 4gate in a while though. I need a strong P to spar with. They all just do stupid stuff on the ladder nowadays...
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
for a great game of infestors vs protoss, find SjoW vs SeleCT (TLopen semis??) and game 2, SjoW does a great move by fungaling his collosus then while they are all stuck, he NP's them. Its pretty awesome.
Re: [Replays/Feedback] Hammy's thread!
New game I enjoyed playing.
Its fun mostly because I completely failed a drop (shouldn't have gone through with it obviously, since it was scouted on the way in) but still managed to turn things around. Also, I love how he doesn't want to rush into my base with his banshees, despite the fact that I didn't have any anti-air.
Baneling droping is so much fun, even though this game my execution was flawed.
Anyways, hope you enjoy it. I specifically like mixing up my army composition a bit. I don't normally make composite armies like this, but maybe I should.
