Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
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Originally Posted by
TWD
The difference again is that spawn larvae doesn't stack. If you forget about mule for a while it doesn't matter. Just call down 2 or 3 mules at once instead of just one. In the end the number of resources you get with it is the same. With zerg if you miss the new larvae spawning, that chance to use the ability is gone forever. There is a point mid game where it stops mattering as much since you'll have more larvae than you do resources. However, it is absolutely essential to get it every time early game in order to be competitive.
You can circumvent this by making more than one hatchery in the main, and using one queen to pop spawn larvae on multiple hatcheries. When that queen is low on energy, swap it with a queen at an expansion who might have more energy.
I think one issue is how effective spawn larvae is, giving 4 extra larvae for a tiny price of 25 energy; which gives you less reason to make multiple hatches in the main when you can make due with main w/queen and fast expansion w/queen.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
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Maybe they could use something like the Devourer's acid attack on the Roaches
Hell no... I didn't like this suggestion when it was first made. I didn't think it was possible, but I hate it even more now.
There's this idea that the Roach has a ton of DPS. That it makes Zerglings and Hydraliks and Mutalisks and whatever completely obsolete because it kills everything at tier 1. And then continues to do DPS further on.
This completely ignores the fact that the zealot attacks twice as fast as Roaches, and so have almost DOUBLE the DPS against anything that doesn't have armor. No range, but the Roach's range is very short. I'm not sure how fast stalkers attack, but they also have double the range.
Roach's DPS gets lower and lower compared to other units as the fight goes along, because they do BURST damage. The problem with this, is that Roach's have crazy survivability, so it takes them a LONG time to die. Or well that's the 'problem'. That's why Roaches SEEM very overpowered.
But really, even with their armor, zealots deal more damage to roaches over time than Roaches deal to Zealots. The problem is, they do it in BURSTS. So the zealots are dead before they've dealt their superior DPS.
Anyway, I don't think the Zerg are dull at all. I think what's new about them is just something that's a lot harder to use than what's new about the Zerg. I mean Overlords are completely different units, but you never hear anybody talking about that. The Queen is a completely different unit, never hear anybody talking about that. The Infestor is a completely new unit for the Zerg. Never hear ANYBODY talking about that.
And I think the problems are multifaceted, but I find the Zerg very fun to play, so... whatever. *Shrug*
Though I do also agree that spawn larvae is a very, very flawed mechanic. And that it could definitely use some work.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
They need to fix general flying units that keep going towards a point. This destroys overlord's ability to spawn creep.
If you move a group of ovies, they all move into a point, then start spreading out. Either program it so that as the ovies spread out, the creep drop happens or the ovies don't move towards one point unless you tell them to.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
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Originally Posted by
Wankey
If you move a group of ovies, they all move into a point, then start spreading out. Either program it so that as the ovies spread out, the creep drop happens or the ovies don't move towards one point unless you tell them to.
I have never had problems with this ability... =S You mean the creep drop is delayed a bit if they all move to one point?
I've never found that to be a problem.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
Yeah you have say 5 ovies, you click a place. They move on one point. Then they start spreading out. The delay is significant enough to not be useful in combat or creep pushes. If ovies stayed in formation, and the second the formation reached the movement point, it would be far more interesting to see.
The odd thing is that I believe they had this in Blizzcon 07 (if you one of the walkthrough vids) the ovies moved in formation. Dunno why they took it out.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
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Hell no... I didn't like this suggestion when it was first made. I didn't think it was possible, but I hate it even more now.
Personally, I think it would be fine... On a Tier 2 Roach. On the Tier 1 version? Hell no.
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Yeah you have say 5 ovies, you click a place. They move on one point. Then they start spreading out. The delay is significant enough to not be useful in combat or creep pushes.
So you want to decrease micro by making Overlords behave completely differently from other air units.
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Dunno why they took it out.
So that air units can stack. Otherwise, they just stay in formation.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
Uh decrease micro? Man you're like boneheaded... there is just no way to get into your head. That's exactly not what I want.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
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Originally Posted by
Nicol Bolas
So you want to decrease micro by making Overlords behave completely differently from other air units.
Nah, I think Wankey makes a great point. SC2 Overlords are very temperamental when it comes to de-accelerating since the series has now made the jump to 3D. When you tell the overlord to start spawning creep, it should immediately stop and do its thing. Now that I think about it, it should probably allow the Overlord to hold its position, even if another flyer pushes up against it and tries to force it aside. The fact that flyers tend to bunch up but then immediately push each other away like opposite charges tends to aggravate some players.
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
Exactly. I once did a spine crawler push with a bunch of ovies (thinking that once they stop, there would be instant creep) but I got into the base... things were frantic, the ovies started pouring creep, stopped a split second later cause they were pushing each out and spreading out. Thinking this is a bug, I moved my ovies again, who bunched up again (while for a split second, spread creep) and rinse and repeat. Until I realized what needed to be done is do nothing. Wait for the ovies to stop moving since you can't move them at all (even individually since they still push each other)
They should either make it that Ovie will travel in formation, or ovies' spread creep will start spreading the second your last move order is finished (thus the pushing doesn't screw it up)
Re: Zerg, the most mundane race to play?
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Originally Posted by
Aldrius
But really, even with their armor, zealots deal more damage to roaches over time than Roaches deal to Zealots. The problem is, they do it in BURSTS. So the zealots are dead before they've dealt their superior DPS.
What do you mean with burst damage? Won't they deal damage and wait the cooldown like any other unit? :confused:
