Patch 7 Notes

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Originally Posted by Skyze

Protoss already owns. What im pissed about is the major zerg nerfs!

How the hell do you win ZvT? Any good terran knows about baneling busts and wont fall for that.. and now that mutas were nerfed bigtime (turrets + thors buff) theres literally nothing zerg can do to stop terran.. Once the MMM army is up, they will still cut thru any zerg army like butter, even sunkens wont do crap with their "buff" against Marauders..

Im very dissapointed with how they are balancing the game so far, seems they nerf the weakest races, and buff the strongest.. I loved the balance in the first 3 patches, but each patch its getting significantly worse.

(for anyone to bash me on my balance opinions, im top 15 platinum div 8 in 1v1, so hope you are close to that or you dont know how top players play. Terran/Protoss is dominating at the top level, you barely see any zergs cept DIMAGA in any tournaments, and hes been losing lots since patch 6 too.)

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So that my "argument" is legitimate I am a rank 6 zerg platinum player. I have beaten some top level terran/protoss's with zerg. You don't need to do a baneling bust to win or have a chance. Mix in banelings mid game against a terran its very strong mixed with hydra/roach its awesome. Most people are saying that zergs the strongest right now anyway.

I have beaten gretorp and incontrol in a zvt and a zvp (incontrol is dominating atm with protoss). Its possible and I don't see how terran/protoss are dominating zerg. You can't forget about upgrades either and a muta switch against protoss is nice at time specially when you rape a ton of probes. Just macro well, scout well, and you'll do fine.

Missile Turrets got a huge buff against light (dealing 12 instead of 7) but a slight nerf against armored (dealing 12 instead of 14).

Buff Transfusion!

Slowly turning this game into Warcraft 3

Banshee
+ The health has been increased from 130 to 140.
Weren't they very powerfull already?

Missile Turret
+ The damage has been changed from 7+7 armored to 12.
Why do they need that firepower?? Is the fire rate really slow?

Thor
+ Anti-Air damage has been decreased from 10+6 light to 8+4 light.
+ Anti-Air attack now deals splash damage in a 0.5 radius.
Probably was the bane of light air units.

PROTOSS
High Templar
+ The Psi Storm radius has been decreased from 2 to 1.5.
mmm... i don't know, it looked pretty small already. It looks like a better investment to go Robotics, that unlocks Observers, Warp Prisms, Immortals, and then Colossi.

Photon Cannon
+ Life and Shield values have been increased from 125/125 to 150/150.
Too much bonusses vs Armored?

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

So wait point of clarification. Do roaches only have enhanced healing underground now?

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Organic Caparace is the T3 upgrade right? Then seems like they won't regenerate over ground at all.

Strange considering that they're powerfull early game, but they losed power late game, IIRC. Wouldn't be better to nerf something early game, and increase late game? :confused:

To those complaining about the ZvZ matchup I have one word for you: mutalisks.

Go roach warren and then tech straight to the spire. Meanwhile pump out as many roaches as you can. When he attacks repel him with the Roaches. He will outnumber you, but retreating back to your ramp will save your base. He thinks he has you on the fritz, and then all the sudden there's muta's killing his hatch. GG.
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KIDS NEXIUM

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

StarCraft II Beta – Patch 7 (version 0.9.0.14621B)
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...49316&sid=5000

Thor
+ Anti-Air damage has been decreased from 10+6 light to 8+4 light.
+ Anti-Air attack now deals splash damage in a 0.5 radius.
...

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Yay. I'm so glad they brought back more ofthe old units. /sarc
I guess those resourceful terrans resorted to welding Valkyries to the shoulders of a Thor. Brilliant! :p
*Fpalm*

On a serious note, in my exp, Terran mobile GTA wasn't sufficient. I say Terran rather than Thor, because I'm not convinced the GTA solution should be implemented via the Thor.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

(for anyone to bash me on my balance opinions, im top 15 platinum div 8 in 1v1, so hope you are close to that or you dont know how top players play.)

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You have a little arrogance on your face... might wanna wipe that off. Because we all know, league placement in a beta means the world.

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Originally Posted by Iceman_jkh

Yay. I'm so glad they brought back more ofthe old units. /sarc
I guess those resourceful terrans resorted to welding Valkyries to the shoulders of a Thor. Brilliant! :p
*Fpalm*

On a serious note, in my exp, Terran mobile GTA wasn't sufficient. I say Terran rather than Thor, because I'm not convinced the GTA solution should be implemented via the Thor.

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Now that you mention it... that splash radius feels so much like the valkirye and its muta killer thing... And with powerful turrets, Mutas are almost useless against terran.

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Originally Posted by n00bonicPlague

Missile Turrets got a huge buff against light (dealing 12 instead of 7) but a slight nerf against armored (dealing 12 instead of 14).

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They fire two missiles so its all x2. So they would deal 24 damage to everything.

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Originally Posted by KadajSouba

Slowly turning this game into Warcraft 3

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Care to explain what you mean?

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That's what I thought until I started owning masses of zerglings with my roaches. ZvZ is evolving yeah, but really slowly. Very small things, like now I get my upgrades faster, and expand later. But I still mass-up roaches. Even against zerglings, if both go +1, your roaches will dominate because it'll only take them 2 hits to kill lings.

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The key to the current, pre-patch +1 Zergling build is fast Zerglings combined with fast expanding. I think the timing is something like 14 Hatch followed by Pool. By the time he gets his Roaches to you, you should be able to pump more 4x more Zerglings than he can Roaches. He can't fast expand with you and keep up on his econ and Roaches at the same time.

If he moves to attack you, you send your Speedlings into his natural/main. By doing so, you win map control and the freedom to expand where you want.

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(I have no idea why you're talking about banelings "busts", which makes no sense in this context).

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Because we're talking about 1-base builds involving Sunkens for defense. Essentially, a Terran wall-in, except with 300 Hp buildings that hurt you.

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To those complaining about the ZvZ matchup I have one word for you: mutalisks.

Go roach warren and then tech straight to the spire. Meanwhile pump out as many roaches as you can. When he attacks repel him with the Roaches. He will outnumber you, but retreating back to your ramp will save your base. He thinks he has you on the fritz, and then all the sudden there's muta's killing his hatch. GG.

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2-Hatch +1 speedlings will kill you before your Spire finishes. Hell, on most maps, straight-up Roaches will kill you (pre-patch). The only place where this might work is on Desert Oasis, but that's only because it has a stupidly long rush distance. And even then, odds are you won't win.

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Originally Posted by blade55555

So that my "argument" is legitimate I am a rank 6 zerg platinum player. I have beaten some top level terran/protoss's with zerg. You don't need to do a baneling bust to win or have a chance. Mix in banelings mid game against a terran its very strong mixed with hydra/roach its awesome. Most people are saying that zergs the strongest right now anyway.

I have beaten gretorp and incontrol in a zvt and a zvp (incontrol is dominating atm with protoss). Its possible and I don't see how terran/protoss are dominating zerg. You can't forget about upgrades either and a muta switch against protoss is nice at time specially when you rape a ton of probes. Just macro well, scout well, and you'll do fine.

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even being a mid-rank gold palyer, this does not surprise me.. so long as we're not taken on the bed by a strong timing push that outnumbers us badly, a well mixed zerg ground army puts up a very good fight against terran M M M ... as it should be IMO, it seems as if they need to make good use of the versatility that can get from medivacs transporting ability, and to a lesser extent, stimms, and preferably some well used support units, in order to put up a resource effective fight.

where are the ravens anyway?

.. this is not saying i have i t easy vs terrans, only that it looks like a quite dynamic MU. will be interesting to see what happens with muta use though, not that iv barked up that tree alot vs T.

I already thought that going Mutas against a Terran was a bad idea. I think this pretty much seals it. The baneling bust helps, but the only thing I've really seen work at all is Hyrdalisks. Roaches simply don't have good enough range to take down a wall fast enough, and Mutas get ripped apart by practically everything in the Terran army. Even then you're going to have a pretty tough time especially if they have a decent number of tanks.

Any thoughts on how well Corruptors do against Terran air?
________
Avandia Lawsuit

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Buff Transfusion!

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How would you even go about buffing it? It hardly heals pretty much every zerg unit back to full health with one cast.

You could reduce it's energy cost. That's about it.

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Any thoughts on how well Corruptors do against Terran air?

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Uh, poorly. They're good if you're going brood lords... and they're more resilient to marine fire so they might be good for taking down medivacs.

The splash is nice on the Thor but in my opinion it's still not enough.

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Originally Posted by blade55555

So that my "argument" is legitimate I am a rank 6 zerg platinum player. I have beaten some top level terran/protoss's with zerg. You don't need to do a baneling bust to win or have a chance. Mix in banelings mid game against a terran its very strong mixed with hydra/roach its awesome. Most people are saying that zergs the strongest right now anyway.

I have beaten gretorp and incontrol in a zvt and a zvp (incontrol is dominating atm with protoss). Its possible and I don't see how terran/protoss are dominating zerg. You can't forget about upgrades either and a muta switch against protoss is nice at time specially when you rape a ton of probes. Just macro well, scout well, and you'll do fine.

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Read patch notes, mutas are useless now. Turrets were already strong enough to take out multiple mutas before because you cant stack them like in BW, now it will be worse.

Protoss im not really too concerned about, they are beatable. I still think force field should get a nerf, but its not overpowered like marauders.

Look at tournament results though, outside of DIMAGA's little games, and HayprO doing good in the last zotac, its almost all protoss/terran winning.. the last XP korea tournament, think it was 1 zerg in round of 8, and he lost in that round.

Keep in mind, balance changes on a level like what we're playing at, like US server platinum, wont make a big difference.. but when you are seeing the top european/koreans have only 1-2 zerg players who are capable of keeping up with the loads of protoss and terran players. makes you wonder.

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Originally Posted by Aldrius

How would you even go about buffing it? It hardly heals pretty much every zerg unit back to full health with one cast.

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There are no zerg units with over 125 health?

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You could reduce it's energy cost. That's about it.

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Reduce cost, make HP gain permanent, add AoE, make into powerful heal over time, allow queen to cast on self, increase HP gain, make into "healing pool" (shield battery) ....

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

There are no zerg units with over 125 health?



Reduce cost, make HP gain permanent, add AoE, make into powerful heal over time, allow queen to cast on self, increase HP gain, make into "healing pool" (shield battery) ....

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most of those would be too strong.. permamently adding HP to a unit makes it like some kinda RPG hero unit, that wont do. You just sit in the back of your base with 1 ultralisk for 10 minutes, pumping him with HP til hes like 5000 HP then own? yehh.. no.

allowing the queen to heal herself tho, is a decent idea.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

most of those would be too strong.. permamently adding HP to a unit makes it like some kinda RPG hero unit, that wont do. You just sit in the back of your base with 1 ultralisk for 10 minutes, pumping him with HP til hes like 5000 HP then own? yehh.. no.

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The proposal for permanent healing would be to only let it be cast on buildings. Perfect for buffing spine crawlers or saving that all important spire.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

There are no zerg units with over 125 health?

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Yes, but 125 is a good amount anyway.

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Reduce cost, make HP gain permanent, add AoE, make into powerful heal over time, allow queen to cast on self, increase HP gain, make into "healing pool" (shield battery) ....

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How would the HP gain even work? AoE or HoT might be all right, but I like the way it works now. Healing zerglings is kind of a waste of time, even with AoE. Allowing her to cast it on herself would break Queen synergy. And I don't have the foggiest clue what you mean by 'healing pool'.

I like the way the spell works now personally.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

most of those would be too strong.. permamently adding HP to a unit makes it like some kinda RPG hero unit, that wont do. You just sit in the back of your base with 1 ultralisk for 10 minutes, pumping him with HP til hes like 5000 HP then own? yehh.. no.

allowing the queen to heal herself tho, is a decent idea.

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you just make it a once only boost
+100 max hp permanent to any bio unit or building that is not transfused
+200 hp healing

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Originally Posted by Krikkitone

you just make it a once only boost
+100 max hp permanent to any bio unit or building that is not transfused
+200 hp healing

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Wouldn't 135 HP zerglings be kind of hard to deal with? (Or jeez... 190hp Hydralisks)

The ability is fine the way it works now. You pretty much need an extra queen to use it effectively, but eh. I don't see the problem with that really.

Blargh - missile turrets hurt Mutalisks so much already - this is going to hurt >_<.

And Thors dealing splash against air now - EEK! It's even harder to go Mutas against Terrans. And Banshees - I thought those were pretty nasty before, but now I'm going to have to really be on top of my anti-air defence.

As a Zerg player who's had Psi Storm frequently used against him, I'm personally grateful for the AoE nerf :p.

The change to Organic Carapace is what I don't get. At the moment, burrow micro with Roaches isn't even that common - it's mainly used as a way to heal up Roaches outside of combat. Healing while unburrowed was the reason people got OC at Hive :p. Like Nicol suggested, maybe we'll see people start to use Roaches as commando units more often, but I kinda doubt it.

The Brood Lord nerf doesn't seem like it'll make the unit much less kick-ass :p.

And the Spine Crawler buff is sooooooooo appreciated. Now it can finally two-hit unupgraded Marines :p. Not to mention fare better against all sorts of units. Yay!

You know whats kinda funny? I just realized that if you switched Transfusion and Calldown Supply on the Queen/OC they would each see allot more usage.

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You know whats kinda funny? I just realized that if you switched Transfusion and Calldown Supply on the Queen/OC they would each see allot more usage.

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That's only because people would build another Queen for the sole purpose of doubling their Overlord's capacity. Also, Terrans can already repair adequately well; dropping 125 health on some nearby unit isn't going to mean much when you can just put some SCVs or Medivacs on the job.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

Read patch notes, mutas are useless now. Turrets were already strong enough to take out multiple mutas before because you cant stack them like in BW, now it will be worse.

Protoss im not really too concerned about, they are beatable. I still think force field should get a nerf, but its not overpowered like marauders.

Look at tournament results though, outside of DIMAGA's little games, and HayprO doing good in the last zotac, its almost all protoss/terran winning.. the last XP korea tournament, think it was 1 zerg in round of 8, and he lost in that round.

Keep in mind, balance changes on a level like what we're playing at, like US server platinum, wont make a big difference.. but when you are seeing the top european/koreans have only 1-2 zerg players who are capable of keeping up with the loads of protoss and terran players. makes you wonder.

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You cant stack them quite as neatly as in BW, but you can still heavily stack muta's as long as you micro it right. They spread back out more quickly, but you can still compact them enough for all of them to launch 1 glaive at the same time to insta-gib turrets or SCV's. If you micro enough you can keep them in a tight ball for however long you want.

EDIT: Ignore my build/macro/micro, I never play zerg... I didnt even play them much in BW so >.>

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

That's only because people would build another Queen for the sole purpose of doubling their Overlord's capacity.

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Make +4 supply

Additionally, the benefit would ultimatly be limited by how many buildings zerg units had.

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Originally Posted by GRUNT

And Thors dealing splash against air now - EEK! It's even harder to go Mutas against Terrans. And Banshees - I thought those were pretty nasty before, but now I'm going to have to really be on top of my anti-air defence.

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They already dealed splash damage, they just changed the radius. Don't know if it's bigger or smaller, however.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

You know whats kinda funny? I just realized that if you switched Transfusion and Calldown Supply on the Queen/OC they would each see allot more usage.

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I don't know, i just don't see someone running out of supply being a huge problem, except early game, when it can be really lethal.

Experienced players are unlikely to run out of supply in any race, so the ability has a problem to begin with.

By the way, i prefer to have more supply buildings/units instead of getting more supply in one of them. Specially for the Zerg, as they double as transports and scouts.

They could allow the Terrans to call down an entire Supply Depot. That would have the same effect, but probably could be useful in battle.

Ugh. No way. Switching them wouldn't accomplish much of anything.

I do not want calldown supply on my zerg.

Transfusion is perfect for Zerg. Particularly for the Queen.

theres a video someone did of 30 thors vs 90 mutalisks with the new patch.. Attack moved into eachother

Anyone want to take a guess what happened?

3 thors died. Thats it.

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Originally Posted by Skyze

theres a video someone did of 30 thors vs 90 mutalisks with the new patch.. Attack moved into eachother

Anyone want to take a guess what happened?

3 thors died. Thats it.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWvvpzgalNY

Yeah, pretty nasty.

I will GLADLY take Supply Drop on my Pylons.

Am I and Xyvik the ONLY ones peeved to death about the nerf on Psi Storm????

I mean: Blizzard really wants people to stop playing Protoss altogether at this rate...

Storm WAS the only way to deal with masses of MMM in PvT and Mass Hydra/Roach in PvZ. Colossi tech is still too vulnerable to a tech switch to Mutas by zerg in mid-game. And Zerg doesnt even need a lot of them to focus down Colossi. If Protoss went stalkers/sentry to repel mutas, zerg can just follow up with zergling/Hydra/Roach using lings to pull stalker fire while Hydras and roach kite zealots and mutas hit-and-run micro Colossi...

I am fucking disappointed in Blizzard's constant nerfing of Protoss. The ONLY good thing they've done so far is buff stalkers. THAT'S IT !

If this continues, there will be no reason for anyone to play Protoss at all...

Its not like storm is usless people, its still good and you can still storm the shit out of the tightly packed MnM _>_

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Originally Posted by Hav0x

They fire two missiles so its all x2. So they would deal 24 damage to everything.

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That x2 also means that the target's armor will count twice. So, the nerf vs armored units is actually steeper than it looks, and the buff vs light units isn't as bad as it seems.

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Originally Posted by Islandsnake

Its not like storm is usless people, its still good and you can still storm the shit out of the tightly packed MnM _>_

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Yeah >.> about that...

EMP always fucks em temps up... sooo I dunno man. Protoss is getting the nerf gun a bit too much.

Also, wtf is toss gonna do vs Mass Roach/Hydra now... It's gonna cost much more gas to get the same AoE coverage as b4.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Archon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWvvpzgalNY

Yeah, pretty nasty.

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Awesome. Mass thors look awesome. Dont know about the cost effective thing between the two units, but it looked awesome.

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

Am I and Xyvik the ONLY ones peeved to death about the nerf on Psi Storm????

I mean: Blizzard really wants people to stop playing Protoss altogether at this rate...

Storm WAS the only way to deal with masses of MMM in PvT and Mass Hydra/Roach in PvZ. Colossi tech is still too vulnerable to a tech switch to Mutas by zerg in mid-game. And Zerg doesnt even need a lot of them to focus down Colossi. If Protoss went stalkers/sentry to repel mutas, zerg can just follow up with zergling/Hydra/Roach using lings to pull stalker fire while Hydras and roach kite zealots and mutas hit-and-run micro Colossi...

I am fucking disappointed in Blizzard's constant nerfing of Protoss. The ONLY good thing they've done so far is buff stalkers. THAT'S IT !

If this continues, there will be no reason for anyone to play Protoss at all...

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While I agree storm got nerfed abit too much, Protoss is still a very strong race. Feel bad for zerg, roaches got nerfed to oblivion, the tier 3 regen upgrade is USELESS now, and mutas are useless now too vs terran.

Terran marauder nerf will fix most problems though. I am playing protoss til a new patch, because least then I can deal with terran.

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

Also, wtf is toss gonna do vs Mass Roach/Hydra now... It's gonna cost much more gas to get the same AoE coverage as b4.

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Yes, but still, it's not really like Hydralisks can storm dodge.

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That x2 also means that the target's armor will count twice. So, the nerf vs armored units is actually steeper than it looks, and the buff vs light units isn't as bad as it seems.

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Yes it is. :P The Armored units armor counted against the 24 damage as it is. So the reduction is two damage what they used to do against armored units. Somewhat of a change, but 24 damage is really high anyway.