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The overmind was a complex being in that he was not so much an entity as he was the collective conciousness of the Zerg. Because of this, he could create and recreate personalities within the swarm in the form of Cerebrates.
Now that the Cerebrates are gone, and Kerrigan is the sole leader of the swarm, does she have the power to ressurect Zerg? By ressurect I mean preservation and reapplication of Zerg conciousness, not literally raising them in the battlefield.
Yes. All experiences and memories of each Zerg are possessed by the Hive Mind. Individual Zerg can have their lives downloaded into a new shell. This happens to many Zerg who prove themselves useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron
I'd say no. Cerebrates were a very special case and Kerrigan hasn't yet demonstrated the need or the skill to do something similar. Cerebrates were anchored into the creep, and after they were destroyed there was a light that hovered above their dead carcass (it represented their true essence). Only Dark Templar could destroy this light, and if it was destroyed the Cerebrate would not be reincarnated, according to Queen of Blades. If it was not destroyed, the cerebrate's light/essence would travel back to the overmind & it could be reincarnated.
The problem is that none of this goes on with standard Zerg minions or even "heroes" like Torrasque or Hunter Killers. And it doesn't need to, since they're all genetically the same, whereas the Cerebrates had different personalities/experiences, etc. Kerrigan can peak into the mind of any Zerg like a true hive mind, etc. but that doesn't mean that the consciouness of any units gets stored.
The Torrasque was a hero that was continuously "revived" in Enslavers and the last UED mission, but to tell you the truth it was probably just getting respawned.
I KNOW there is canon lore stating individual lesser Zerg can be revived. I just wish I could find it :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius
The closest thing to that is Why We Fight. A special zergling died, and Kerrigan reused its DNA.
I'm also very sure that the Torrasque was actually reincarnated, not just respawned. (Well, we should go with what the game itself said... they didn't use the term "respawn".) Something similar with Kaloth and Stukov.
What would that mean, exactly? If the Torrasque has no actual mind, anything more than the average insect does, what would it mean to "reincarnate" it? How would you be able to tell the difference between "reincarnation" and "produced another one?"Quote:
I'm also very sure that the Torrasque was actually reincarnated, not just respawned.
Whether she can or she can't makes no difference really, as far as we know she's got no more personable servants, and therefore no reason to use the power.
I bet Kerrigan has queens as servants. She certainly has Ethan Stewart. I don't think she can resurrect them though; she's never demonstrated that ability before.
I was going with what the game said. It's interesting there could only be one Torrasque at a time.Quote:
What would that mean, exactly? If the Torrasque has no actual mind, anything more than the average insect does, what would it mean to "reincarnate" it?
Why bother by rebuilding a lesser minion, when you can create one from scratch that is exactly the same than the other?
Cerebrates don't exist anymore, and if a Cerebrate could resurrect a man, Kerrigan should be able to do the same, but we are talking about different things anyways, as i doubt that Stukov would be able to be resurrected if completely destroyed. Probably he was just "fixed" by the Zerg, to start functioning again.
That's exactly what Kerrigan did in Why We Fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
No. Different cerebrates often had different abilities. I'm pretty sure what was done to Stukov was specific to Kaloth. (I hope so!)Quote:
...If a Cerebrate could resurrect a man, Kerrigan should be able to do the same
For instance, in the last UED mission in Brood War, each of the three cerebrates are supposed to have a different ability. One just made infested terrans, the other could pump up sunken colonies and the third could summon the Torrasque. If cerebrates have different abilities, why would you expect Kerrigan to have all their abilities?
I think Kerrigan can only create new if she wanted, but not resurrect them.
Yeah, i think you're right. I can imagine the Overmind capable of doing everything the Cerebrates could, but not Kerrigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimera757
She had 4 years to try, but probably even that wouldn't allow her to do it.
I would think no too, because she is still to immature (physically) to demonstrate such an ability maybe later in the zerg campaign, yes but probably not now
Is the Cerebrate a starcraft unit in the manual or is it only the heros like Zasz and Daggoth? I want to read the bio on what creature it was that they assimilated for them and their overall information. Anyone have any references / links? Theory is always appreciated as well. I really like this forum because of all the creative thinking and it gives me a good read everytime I read a new post.
Post note: If its not a unit that can be referenced as being assimilated into the Swarm, then I do not think it could necessarily be spawned by any means Kerrigan has at her disposal.
As far as I recall, we only got Daggoth and a generic cerebrate, not even Zasz.
Cerebrates are giant larvae, which are the original zerg organism. They were not assimilated into the Swarm. That's in the manual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Runei
Creating a copy of a unit out of its exact DNA is one thing, but the Ressurected Zerg during the Overminds reign retained their memories and personalities, something that doesn't happen with a simply clone. It also makes for more interesting story elements, like how the Zerg started out as the 'Eternal Swarm'. The moment Zasz died, the game completely changes and for the first time the felt fear and loss.
Kerrigan is now very much Zerg, but she's going to have residual human feelings. If she can't ressurect or recreate a being with personality or memories in tact, her sentimentality could be used against her.
Cerebrates could be reincarnated because they were facets of the Overmind's own entity. Destroying the body only destroyed an anchor. Breeding a new body provided a new anchor. Does a brood grow erratic, however, while the Cerebrate is disembodied?
One thing I wonder is whether the Overmind would have sustained any harm or decrease in intellect/being if a substantial portion of the Swarm were destroyed (and not by Dark Templar). That is to say, where is it "stored"? If the Swarm gives rise to the Overmind, and, say, the brood-equivalent of the Overmind's parietal lobe were destroyed (eg Brood So-and-so is annihilated), would the Overmind lose its coordination? Or only when destroyed by Dark Templar?
This, I guess, may depend on whether you believe the Overmind was a disembodied voice or corporeal entity. Both possibilities are supported by the game and manual. Expanding the Swarm allowed it to expand on itself, and this could all be stored in this physical body. On the other hand, I feel the concept if making the Overmind "physical" lessens its omnipresence in the Swarm.
Also, can a Torrasque be destroyed by a Dark Templar?
No. Not from what we've seen in the novel Queen of Blades. (It's lame, but the only source of lore on this.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
The xel'naga created it from the collective consciousness of the zerg. However, I don't believe it's continually being "remade" by the zerg minds; I doubt the Overmind changed when it added Kerrigan to the Swarm.Quote:
One thing I wonder is whether the Overmind would have sustained any harm or decrease in intellect/being if a substantial portion of the Swarm were destroyed (and not by Dark Templar). That is to say, where is it "stored"?
Having said that, I'm pretty sure the second Overmind was less intelligent, as it was made of numerous cerebrates, rather than all of them.
I don't believe it works that way, at least not for the first Overmind. (When making cerebrates, I believe it "copies" part of itself, rather than actually losing part of itself.)Quote:
If the Swarm gives rise to the Overmind, and, say, the brood-equivalent of the Overmind's parietal lobe were destroyed (eg Brood So-and-so is annihilated), would the Overmind lose its coordination? Or only when destroyed by Dark Templar?
I don't believe it's come up. (Depending on who you believe, there may have been some in Resurrection IV, and if so, you had the opportunity to kill the Torrasque with dark templar. Those ones wouldn't have reincarnated anyway, though.)Quote:
Also, can a Torrasque be destroyed by a Dark Templar?
The Overmind got ill when a DT slain Cerebrate Zasz, then your're given the task (by another Cerebrate) to erradicate Zasz's brood. Only then the Overmind speaks again: "Behold, my long silence is now broken, and I am made whole once more.". However, you're tasked to destroy the brood to "stem any further damage it might cause", not to restore the Overmind, so probably the Overmind illness was temporary, and restored by itself.
So, i think that the DT attack caused a "malfunction" in the link between the Overmind and the Cerebrates. However, if the Overmind was "made whole once more", that probably means that no permanent loss happened (besides losing a Cerebrate and whatever allows the Cerebrate to be reincarnated).
Also, when the Overmind lands on Aiur, it looked like a large ball of meat, so it either already had a physical form, or this was like a "seed" created to grow on Aiur, as you're tasked to clean the temple "where the Xel'Naga first set foot on Aiur", and plant there a Khydarin crystal you harvested before. It also mentions that: "for it's upon this ground alone that I can be made manifest".
I wonder if those Cerebrates that served as the basis of the second Overmind would have been able to later re-establish themselves as independant entities. (Once things calmed down, of course.)Quote:
Having said that, I'm pretty sure the second Overmind was less intelligent, as it was made of numerous cerebrates, rather than all of them.
Really? Lame sauce. :(Quote:
No. Not from what we've seen in the novel Queen of Blades. (It's lame, but the only source of lore on this.)
I read a few parts of Queen of Blades, and from what I gathered the Overmind's reticence was, at least in part, because it withdrew into itself to better study the Dark Templar attack. Of course, this would go against established (at least hinted) canon, where it's said the assassination of the Cerebrates caused the first Overmind to go into shock, disrupting the Swarm's efforts to defend it on Aiur.Quote:
So, i think that the DT attack caused a "malfunction" in the link between the Overmind and the Cerebrates.
The cerebrates had a hard time even existing without an Overmind; even if they could split back off, why would they want to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
Well, that's kinda like asking why the Overmind created Cerebrates in the first place. By this point the Swarm has lost a considerable number of them. Given that these Cerebrates likely had a lot of experience, I'd think they'd want to re-establish their independence to help lead the swarm, once the Overmind matured.Quote:
The cerebrates had a hard time even existing without an Overmind; even if they could split back off, why would they want to?
But, I wonder as to her level of command and abilities... the author of Queen of Blades emphasized at least a few times that direct command - at least of the sort demonstrated by the Cerebrates - was NOT Kerrigan's original mission, nor was she designed for it. She literally had to force her will onto individual minions when her pet Cerebrate was slain by Tassadar, in a manner similar to Dark Archon Mind Control. This is reinforced by the fact that required the aid of one in Brood War. But what do the Dark Templar trilogy books have to say on the topic?
Shadow Hunters never did get on the subject of mentioning the Cerebrates.Quote:
But what do the Dark Templar trilogy books have to say on the topic?
Though its been my long belief that Ethan and infested terrans (even before the Saga or SC2 was announced) would represents latter a newer generation of intelligent infested terrans leaders. Kerrigan's infested terran version of the past Cerebrates. Ethan being Kerrigan's 'Daggoth'. (That is if he survives Twilight.) Just a thought.
Read the excerpt of Shadow Hunters and simonandschuster.comQuote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
By the end of Brood War alone, Kerrigan could control the Swarm by herself. In four years, her powers haven't weakened.
Not sure about this but didn't she also have the odd ability to control the Zerg even as just a normal ghost?
Yeah, she did. She was uniquely suited to being the leader of the Zerg Swarm. The Overmind really lucked out finding her.