The Protoss Players Thread

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Originally Posted by KidCurry

I had a few quick questions. Is it normally ok to be supply blocked if you 9pylon for just a few seconds before your 11th probe starts to build, or is there a way around it? And I really don't like 8 pylon.

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Not unless you CB on 9 too. Put your probe where you will build your pylon and spam "E" until it shows up and you can place it. Get your probe out earlier so that you can do that. I do 9 pylon and never get supply blocked or stop probe production.

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P v Z: I read the first ten pages of this thread. It seems there is a lot of difficulty dealing with brood lords...I ran into this as well. Its 20 pages later, any new things that might work? I'm going to go with a mix of Stalkers and Void Rays. Also, is it possible to FF right in front of your line of stalkers and prevent the broodlings from getting to your line?

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Brood Lords are an expensive tech that you shouldn't let your opponent reach at all. I would suggest just more blink Stalkers, but I haven't played nearly enough pvz lately.

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P v T: Terran air is a problem. Especially when Banshees go for my mineral line. Where exactly should the cannons be placed and how many to ward off banshees.

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Phoenix are great if you scout his build. You can kill the 'shees and use the phoenix for graviton beam & scouting later.

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Also, when facing a banshee and viking mix, go stalkers, sentries and void rays? Guardian Shield and focus fire on the vikings?

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I personally like High Templar. It's hard because Banshees can straight up fight Stalkers one on one, plus they stack since they're air units, while Stalkers don't let other Stalkers behind them get in range half the time.

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And this last one is really simple. Does Feedback on a HT drain the energy of the target and deal an equal amount of damage, or does it just deal the damage?

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Drains then deals.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

I'm in low diamond & combine DTs into my army all the time, but no, I never straight up rush for them.

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I think that they should make it at least 50gas cheaper and faster to build
I mean those little maggots aren't that much useful in games

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Phoenix are great if you scout his build. You can kill the 'shees and use the Phoenix for graviton beam & scouting later.

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This is a unit that i frequently like to get vs Terran. I noticed that Smartcasting takes Graviton Beam as a 1-at-a-time ability, which means that shift-clicking the targets floats one at a time, while the rest of the Phoenix shoot at it. It's quite effective vs Light targets.
I still lose PvT most of the time, but as i win PvZ almost all the time, and my PvP is ok, it doesn't bothers me that much anymore.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

I just move the Zealot to the mineral line. When he engages the Zerglings, i attack-move with my Probes. You will be surprised of the amount of Zerglings that can die while trying to take down that Zealot, when their pathing is completely messed by the amount of Probes everywhere that are attacking the Zerglings. Of course, send the GWs rally-point to the mineral line and continue to make Zealots. Then you can guess how many Probes can be sent to mine again.
After the Zerglings die, move the Zealots to the ramp again, and Chronoboost your Nexus.
Try to not attack with the Probes if there aren't any Zealots, because their tanking is essential. You can run your Probes in circles around your Nexus to buy time. Zerglings cannot catch them easily without speed.

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Wow that makes a huge difference. Doesn't even worry me now when facing a zerg player. Last one I played they burnt everything into bum rushing me with lings, after i slaughtered them all using probes to tank I wrecked his base with 4 zealots. Thanks a lot!

SD

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Originally Posted by KidCurry

I had a few quick questions. Is it normally ok to be supply blocked if you 9pylon for just a few seconds before your 11th probe starts to build, or is there a way around it? And I really don't like 8 pylon.

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If you can get timing perfect you should have zero time on building a 9 pylon and after your your tenth is about to finish you should have maybe 1/2 a second food lock, or nothing if you can get timing down...then I chrono boost them once the pylon is done.

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Originally Posted by KidCurry

P v Z: I read the first ten pages of this thread. It seems there is a lot of difficulty dealing with brood lords...I ran into this as well. Its 20 pages later, any new things that might work? I'm going to go with a mix of Stalkers and Void Rays. Also, is it possible to FF right in front of your line of stalkers and prevent the broodlings from getting to your line?

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Every occurrence I have had with brood lord, void ray, or phoenix, and stalker focus fire on them has worked. Generally with my zealots playing cleanup on the broodlings. However the problem I have also seen is they usually have infestors mixed in, since they are required to make brood lords...so you have to kind of control your units very well. I usually try to force field and make it harder for the broodlings to get to my units, but it doesn't prevent them from reaching your units, just after they land. Blink is very helpful for this if you choose to counter with stalkers. I have blinked up to cliffs and move and shoot them as I go. When the broodlings come I blink down. All about positioning. Scouting is crucial...if you see they are going brood lords, might not be a bad time to try to take out maybe their expansions or even attempt a base hit. Or use a couple phoenix to go overlord sniping.

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Originally Posted by KidCurry

P v T: Terran air is a problem. Especially when Banshees go for my mineral line. Where exactly should the cannons be placed and how many to ward off banshees.

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In upper gold league I've always done well against banshees having stalkers focus fire them down. If you feel they are going for banshees (again scouting is crucial) I generally build a couple pylons and a couple cannons on the other side of my minerals. It usually scares off any banshees. I would recommend phoenix too. They are a) a good scouting unit and b) in a group of 2-3 pretty good to cleanup banshees.

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Originally Posted by KidCurry

Also, when facing a banshee and viking mix, go stalkers, sentries and void rays? Guardian Shield and focus fire on the vikings?

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You may play around with stalkers a bit and see how many it takes to kill a banshee in one round of shots, and try to control that many to fire while the others clean up vikings. It goes back to unit control, and after some practice it makes more sense.

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Originally Posted by KidCurry

And this last one is really simple. Does Feedback on a HT drain the energy of the target and deal an equal amount of damage, or does it just deal the damage?

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HT feedback drains the energy and does damage. I usually get them if I also need psi storm though.

If you want to practice sometime add me as a friend. I want to get better with Terran and you seem to need practice with them too so. SDangeR is my character name too.

Hope this helps

SD

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Originally Posted by SDangeR

Wow that makes a huge difference. Doesn't even worry me now when facing a zerg player. Last one I played they burnt everything into bum rushing me with lings, after i slaughtered them all using probes to tank I wrecked his base with 4 zealots. Thanks a lot!

SD

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You're welcome :). This is mostly what i do in PvZ, seems to work well: when you get your expansion, try to get Colossi with the range upgrade. If you keep a bunch of Zealots and/or Stalkers in front of them, the Zerg player cannot really shoot at them unless he has air units. If he goes air, you get blink for the Stalkers, and don't really need many Zealots, if at all. Take all Corruptors down as fast as you see them to protect the Colossi, you can pretty much ignore the ground army while you take air down (shouldn't take much with the mass of Stalkers), the Colossi are shooting at them, anyways.

well the last PvZ i win was becouse i scout his zerling rush and instead of going 2 gatways as i always do i go for 1 gateway - 1 forge, then 1 zealot, 1 canon, the canon just pop up in time when the 6 zergling arrive, and i hold em off. Then i immediately go for 4 warpgates and start stalker production. The rest of the game was pretty nice and easy because the Zerg go for mass mutas vs my mass stalkers =P

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Originally Posted by tam

hmm...i have trouble believing that build order as 10 gateway yes is possible...but 13 assemilator and core and ur second assimilator at 14, i really dont think you'de have the minerals by that point to do that

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if yer talking bout my build its something like that it might of been 14 core 14 assem but it was something like that...I kinda just do that opener by feel now so dont remeber the exact supply but its close to that XD But you can always cut a few workers for the fast stalkers!

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Originally Posted by SDangeR

If you want to practice sometime add me as a friend. I want to get better with Terran and you seem to need practice with them too so. SDangeR is my character name too.

Hope this helps

SD

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Thanks, I'll do that, and thanks for the help.

Hey guys, a few questions and pardon the noobness.

How and when do you use carriers, if you do at all? I don't really play competitively, just to have fun and I love carriers. But their uses seem to be limited especially considering how they wer nerfed compared to SC1's carriers. So I am curious as how you use carriers if at all.

Other question, how do you people counter Terran ghosts? They seem to be the bane of the Protoss really. I can think of a few things, like the High Templar's feedback, sentry hallucinations to waste emp, maybe Phoenix graviton beam?

Carriers - end game unit through and through now, even then this is assuming you have the econ and standing army to defend. If you get the interceptor upgrade carriers are strong shit, but even then mass carriers isn't viable anymore - you need VR/Phoenix to support them possibly, if not a decent ground army.

Ghosts - i cant really say much, but this is more about micro if you're talking about EMP. If they blow it on your army, and a lot of units got hit, run away and regen your shields, if not then have your ranged units focus fire the ghosts and melee kill the rest of the army. Again im not sure if that the best advice though.

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Originally Posted by ProtossHierarch

Hey guys, a few questions and pardon the noobness.

How and when do you use carriers, if you do at all? I don't really play competitively, just to have fun and I love carriers. But their uses seem to be limited especially considering how they wer nerfed compared to SC1's carriers. So I am curious as how you use carriers if at all.

Other question, how do you people counter Terran ghosts? They seem to be the bane of the Protoss really. I can think of a few things, like the High Templar's feedback, sentry hallucinations to waste emp, maybe Phoenix graviton beam?

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Hey using carriers is usually at the end of the mid game-late game but you can use them earlyer on if you have a good stratige like charge lots stalkers with carriers but the thing u gotta look out for is if they got alot of AA(anti air) then its usually not a good idea.


The ghost emp thing is kinda hard to counter yes hallu's may work but could also bak fire and u just lost maybe 500 energy what I do is I send in a few zlots and they usually emp that bak em up(take charge off)then get army n go.

A massive carrier-army is a tactic that never occurs to me. Depending on my enemy's build i am usually just supporting/leading with VR's and the occasional mothership(which really pisses zergs off at times when they lack an overseer)

Guess it's just a habit that i've grown away from, and only employ in FFA-practice games.

Thanks guys, another question which I am sure has been asked to death but here goes. How do we deal with *early* marine marauder rush? Is there no other way except for us to be more aggressive and harass the terran before he can get marauders?

Because once the Terran gets marauders backed with marines, zealots are trashed except if in huge numbers which is unlikely. Stalkers get owned by Marauders easily. Sentries die fast. I know we can use them to ff and tech (and we can't do this for long), but that means conceding map control. Immortals are too expensive and not so useful in this scenario and Colossi are very hard to get early on without taking a huge risk. Same with High Templars and Psy storm.

So how do you fight them early in the game?
I am thinking that maybe Zealot / Stalkers might do the trick, if the marauders are distracted by the stalkers, but that wouldn't work against a good player. Maybe backed by Immortals to deal with the marauders?
Or do we have to tech rush to Colossi and / or HT? If so, how can we do this while simulteanously holding him off.

Thanks again guys.

I got a huge problem that i'm searching advice for. I am currently in a tournament and will be facing the Terran i've been practicing a few games(PvT) against. He knows i'm completely vulnerable to a Thor-rush and of course he is blackmailing me with using it in the game.

So if anybody knows a good counter for it, please let me know :)
(Someone adviced cockblocking the ramp with 6 sentrys where energy regen+numbers equals uptime+cannons but i'm not sure if this works)

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Originally Posted by ProtossHierarch

Thanks guys, another question which I am sure has been asked to death but here goes. How do we deal with *early* marine marauder rush? Is there no other way except for us to be more aggressive and harass the terran before he can get marauders?

Because once the Terran gets marauders backed with marines, zealots are trashed except if in huge numbers which is unlikely. Stalkers get owned by Marauders easily. Sentries die fast. I know we can use them to ff and tech (and we can't do this for long), but that means conceding map control. Immortals are too expensive and not so useful in this scenario and Colossi are very hard to get early on without taking a huge risk. Same with High Templars and Psy storm.

So how do you fight them early in the game?
I am thinking that maybe Zealot / Stalkers might do the trick, if the marauders are distracted by the stalkers, but that wouldn't work against a good player. Maybe backed by Immortals to deal with the marauders?
Or do we have to tech rush to Colossi and / or HT? If so, how can we do this while simulteanously holding him off.

Thanks again guys.

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One way is to let half his army up the ramp and then FF. Have another sentry use gshield so your zealots don't get killed walking up to the marines/marauders. Try and allow the marines up and leave out the marauders. Your stalkers can hit the marauders on the lower level and marauders can't fire back. your zealots should be able to take care of the marines, especially if you have gshield up.

How do we host replays? I wanted to put one up.

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Originally Posted by Vrebona

I got a huge problem that i'm searching advice for. I am currently in a tournament and will be facing the Terran i've been practicing a few games(PvT) against. He knows i'm completely vulnerable to a Thor-rush and of course he is blackmailing me with using it in the game.

So if anybody knows a good counter for it, please let me know :)
(Someone adviced cockblocking the ramp with 6 sentrys where energy regen+numbers equals uptime+cannons but i'm not sure if this works)

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Just get 2/3 gate robo bay. When he rushes for the thors use immortals to counter them. If he tries to follow up with bio/mech throw some colossus into the mix and you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Jdawsman

Just get 2/3 gate robo bay. When he rushes for the thors use immortals to counter them. If he tries to follow up with bio/mech throw some colossus into the mix and you should be fine.

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Was wondering if a single/double gas-steal would do the trick long enough to delay a cost-heavy Thor in earlygame. Not sure if it's worth it due to the minerals lost though(if any).

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Originally Posted by Vrebona

Was wondering if a single/double gas-steal would do the trick long enough to delay a cost-heavy Thor in earlygame. Not sure if it's worth it due to the minerals lost though(if any).

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lol you shouldn't give him a damn chance to get them

HT with their feedback against Thor's+Storm agains bio is great

Recently i haven't been playing SC2 much... at all.

And that's all because of PvP. I hate the matchup soo goddamn much. I played 2 games today, both PvP, and lost them both.

Mostly i think it's due to my BO's, so i thought i might ask for some help here.

If any diamond P in the mood, please share your PvP BO's. Wether it be 4 gating, 3 gate robo etc. i need to know.

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Originally Posted by Dropsonic

Recently i haven't been playing SC2 much... at all.

And that's all because of PvP. I hate the matchup soo goddamn much. I played 2 games today, both PvP, and lost them both.

Mostly i think it's due to my BO's, so i thought i might ask for some help here.

If any diamond P in the mood, please share your PvP BO's. Wether it be 4 gating, 3 gate robo etc. i need to know.

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I 4 gate into DT's most the time. My reasoning behind this is that even if the opponent goes to a robotics bay they always seem to build 1 observer to put in your base then never make another one. Alternatively if the opponent 4 gates or even goes stargate generally they will have little to no detection allowing you to do maximum damage.

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Originally Posted by Jdawsman

I 4 gate into DT's most the time. My reasoning behind this is that even if the opponent goes to a robotics bay they always seem to build 1 observer to put in your base then never make another one. Alternatively if the opponent 4 gates or even goes stargate generally they will have little to no detection allowing you to do maximum damage.

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Aren't they going to scout your dark shrine?

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Originally Posted by Jdawsman

I 4 gate into DT's most the time. My reasoning behind this is that even if the opponent goes to a robotics bay they always seem to build 1 observer to put in your base then never make another one. Alternatively if the opponent 4 gates or even goes stargate generally they will have little to no detection allowing you to do maximum damage.

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toss players often go for cannons... hell, i do too...
besides, even 1 observer can completely negate the dt's...

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Originally Posted by Dropsonic

Recently i haven't been playing SC2 much... at all.

And that's all because of PvP. I hate the matchup soo goddamn much. I played 2 games today, both PvP, and lost them both.

Mostly i think it's due to my BO's, so i thought i might ask for some help here.

If any diamond P in the mood, please share your PvP BO's. Wether it be 4 gating, 3 gate robo etc. i need to know.

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pvp's are nothing but stalker massing or cannon rushes for me...

human fools cannot strategize in my division...ho-hum...

Intro: rant about colossus that i deemed to be unworthy of its own thread
I see that it makes sense that colossus could be targeted by anti-air (since they're so tall), but makes the colossus a very large and tall liability. In my experience i've seen this weapon become "end all gg" weapon if your opponent doesn't scout or the xtra large glass tower that was a waste of my precious minerals and gas. I mean, it was suppose to be the super weapon that was buried under the surface of auir for its extreme power. Any unit that can attack can attack this. And on top of that the colossus can be targeted when it is on the higher ground...

I'm just saying that for the investment you have to make (to build and to tech and to upgrade thermal lances) the colossus seems like a large liability.

P.S. i had a dream that the colossus could attackair units (goodbye mutas

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Originally Posted by IchibanBaka

Intro: rant about colossus that i deemed to be unworthy of its own thread
I see that it makes sense that colossus could be targeted by anti-air (since they're so tall), but makes the colossus a very large and tall liability. In my experience i've seen this weapon become "end all gg" weapon if your opponent doesn't scout or the xtra large glass tower that was a waste of my precious minerals and gas. I mean, it was suppose to be the super weapon that was buried under the surface of auir for its extreme power. Any unit that can attack can attack this. And on top of that the colossus can be targeted when it is on the higher ground...

I'm just saying that for the investment you have to make (to build and to tech and to upgrade thermal lances) the colossus seems like a large liability.

P.S. i had a dream that the colossus could attackair units (goodbye mutas

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ah, but young one...
for all the pain and suffering the colossi have brought, was it not a sight of glory to watch those dreaded rocket-men burn to crisps?

then again... i have always had some issues with the colossus towering height making in the most vulnerable unit of all...
i think the biggest problem is it's 'armoured' class, effectively killing it versus so many different units from all sides...

Colossi must never be at shooting range. If something is shooting at it, kill it fast, or move the Colossi back, whatever is better. Also, Colossi are useless without the range upgrade, which means that the upgrade doesn't really make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Colossi must never be at shooting range. If something is shooting at it, kill it fast, or move the Colossi back, whatever is better. Also, Colossi are useless without the range upgrade, which means that the upgrade doesn't really make any sense.

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Yeah that range cost 200-200 i believe, on top of the robo bay 200-200 and the colossus 300-200 (also count in the robofacility 200-100)... Thats quite a large investment considering that the counters to the colossus are really easy to get and are much more versatile. viking has nearly the same range (8), does bonus damage against armored, and is relatively cheap (plus in the terran building system is quite easy to tech to). Then after its done killing the colossus, it can land to assist in the ground war. THe corruptor is also a unit that insta kills colossus (stalkers can't stop the corruptors if the zerg is sending in lings etc to support). Then if the Protoss player had teched up to colossus status, then its viable that the zerg could have teched up to greater spire and thus have the ability to morpth the corruptor into the broodlords.

I think that Colossi in PvT are not very good, because Siege Tanks outrange them, and will destroy'em very quickly. By the time you get the Colossi with range, the Terran can have a big army that is more effective for cost than yours.

In PvZ, i like to build Colossi + Stalkers. If Corruptors arrive, i focus-fire them, and let the Colossi handle the ground units. There's a point in a PvZ game that you cannot survive anymore without AoE damage.

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Originally Posted by senervo

toss players often go for cannons... hell, i do too...
besides, even 1 observer can completely negate the dt's...

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As i said the toss player usually only builds 1 observer to scout your base then never another one. Meaning you destroy his 1 observer and he never makes another.

That can only mean that teching to DTs in PvP is short-lived as a build since once P players start building more obs as a habit, DT builds will be null and void... and a huge waste of time and resources. Not a really safe strategy to use - in the short-term, it may work, but not against any good player with a brain to scout your army/base/tech.

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Originally Posted by Jdawsman

As i said the toss player usually only builds 1 observer to scout your base then never another one. Meaning you destroy his 1 observer and he never makes another.

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i always do... and there's no telling what most good players do...

but, should the circumstances be that i'm playing vs a less experienced or careful player, then yes...

but trying to snipe an observer remaining over the army for protection can be quite costly... and when he knows there are dt around...well...
observers don't take that long to produce..

Omg... what can i do to counter the MMMG ball, it's such bs.

What i do is make hallucinated HT and such in the front to take the blunt of the emps, then i rush in with real ht. but i do feel that mmmg is alittle unfair.

I'm pretty disappointed that you can't feedback a point defense drone. :(

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Originally Posted by Gradius

I'm pretty disappointed that you can't feedback a point defense drone. :(

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I am disappointed we cant feedback orbital commands/nexii =[

They can be EMP'd why not Feedback =[

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Originally Posted by Gradius

I'm pretty disappointed that you can't feedback a point defense drone. :(

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I'm pretty disappointed the thing exists

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Originally Posted by McLovin

I'm pretty disappointed the thing exists

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^ This

PDD's can be feedback-ed (?) as PsyStarcraft shows here :

:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiDdT...eature=related

at 1:09 mins

Was it patched or something? Because every time I try it it says "unable to target structure" (apparently a PDD is a structure).

Hmmm... Maybe it was, I don't really know. I was watching this on youtube today, but the date is pre-patch 1.1.0 (Aug 29, 2010). So it is possible and it makes no sense...

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Originally Posted by protoswarrior

Hmmm... Maybe it was, I don't really know. I was watching this on youtube today, but the date is pre-patch 1.1.0 (Aug 29, 2010). So it is possible and it makes no sense...

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Maybe they felt like they it was unfair for the Terrans :rolleyes: