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sentry is a very atractive unit to get regardless, but i like to get phoenix in PvP. rather early. and sentries are gas heavy light units, so tehy are easy pickings for gravitation-beam; taking 20 damage per shot by otehr phoenixes while in the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by GnaReffotsirk
i mostly use the sentry as a defensive unitQuote:
Originally Posted by Todie
so i dont have like more then 3.. coz in offnesive u need a lto of them, and thats just a waste of gas, you could get more colosi (if saveing up gas) instead in later game, yet even then i have more minerals then gas and just waste it on zealots or expanding, and i got like 3 camnd rows od stalkers 2-3 colossi, a few importals.... but those damn terrans awlays can beat me, not even charge helps here..
the same as stalkers fail to marines with stim in early game...lol
Yes. Any time there's Terran Ghosts on the field, you won't want to make any Sentries, since you don't even get to use their energy before EMP lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by GnaReffotsirk
Your zealot composition is prolly too small. Zealots absorb SOOO much damage from marauders. Also, focus 1-2 zeals on killing the rines while the remaining zeal deals with the marauders with support from the stalkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Klifer
I've played very close skirmishes in close start position PvT where T just starts coming in with 1-2 marauders and 1-2 marines. You need like 2 stalkers and 2-3 zeals to deal with that. And you increase the number of zeals and stalkers as the battles continue till you can push the T back. You SHOULD be teching hard while that happens though since T is most likely FE'ing right then. You expo as soon as you are able to move out. Scout his base and harass harass harass!
With enough spook, you can get him to bunker up and get unnecessary turrets if you get stargate, then push in with HT tech and massive zealot stalker and 1-3 VR (depending on your income).
Build some Phoenixes and go Ghost Busting ;)Quote:
Yes. Any time there's Terran Ghosts on the field, you won't want to make any Sentries, since you don't even get to use their energy before EMP lands.
during my nabish times i noticed one thig:
on small maps,, never go for early tech.
on small maps, mas (with counter units etc)
that why i have "stepps of war" and that small burning map... "intersomething zone".. i ALWAYS lose on those maps... like i have 3 win on em, and 50 loss :D
On Incineration Zone ( lava map ) i always do a chargelot/sentry/stalker push early on, preventing my opponent from expoing. Then, I generally tech up to immortals ( getting an observer out first ). And then i push to win!
About the phœnix issue... I though about it and figured out that they might not be a good unit for war but they would be effective hunters! They could add them the detector ability so they could hunt down ghost aiming nukes, DTs parties, and other stuff like that...
An observer along with a phoenix party is nothing but a burden... They're too slow and lasts little time when detected...
Hellmessenger, I'll give you a hint:
Go to your Robotics support bay and check out the upgrades.
It won't make the Observer fly as fast as a Phoenix, but it will enable it to keep up a LOT more than it can un-upgraded.
Yeah I already knew that... you could even do that upgrade in SC1. But phoenixes with detector would make them a good unit instead of being useless...Quote:
Originally Posted by protoswarrior
Why are they useless?
In PvZ, you can use them to great effect vs a mutaling zerg, and even vs a hydra heavy build, getting an early phoenix or 2 to hunt ovies and harass drones and queens before lair makes them extremely useful to slow down zerg. In any matchup even.
Once u have 3 phoenix (4 vs Terran), you can kill 6-8 workers really fast, and gain an econ advantage that way. In battles, you can lift siege tanks, Immortals, stalkers and even roaches and basically have a "stasis field"-like effect where half the army is disabled in early game.
Hydras + Roaches cook my chargelots, stalkers and immortals. Even in equal numbers, my guys are trapped behind each other cause stalkers dont let the damn zealots through. Not to mention hydras and roaches fire over each other nicely.
Any thoughts? Ya I know colossi cook these guys but im talkin early on before techin to the spidy's is cost effective.
Oh and warp prisms + immortals make great base busters :D
Also, any word on them nerfing the base hydra dmg to a multiplier like other units use? They do way too much damage to all armor types imo.
keep your zealots and stalekrs in sepparate ctrl grops so you can move teh zealots in front before engaging. also, your units are faster on netural ground: use that to fight him where it suits you, and use sentry-support to furhter enhance that by isolating parts of his army or trapping them to deny retreat...
also try to flank the hydras with zealots; hydras are dealing the great damage and zealots are much better at killing hydras than they are at killing roaches. stalkers (and esp immortlas) will handle roaches if you keep them in good position - focus fire is good.
Research Blink?Quote:
Originally Posted by Westerner
Doh!
7
8 pylon Chrono boost
9
10
11 gateway Chrono boost
12
13 Assimilator
14 pylon
Then I get Core then Branch from there, but I always get Warp Gate no matter what. Personally Warp Gate (even w/o many gateways) is too important to just skip, even if you are going robo or air =)
I was wondering what you guys' strategy is on Desert oasis?
This is by far my worst map. Not cause i lose much on it, but because i hate the layout, having a hard time expanding and such.
So mostly, i just go for a one base game. I usually try to go zealot/stalker/sentry, with a few immortals if the game gets a little longer.
Please post some replays, and i'd be forever grateful :)
meh...wrong person to ask here, i always get pwned on desert oasis due to drops that i know are gonna happen and yet dont prepare for :P lol
had a tourney match against a terrain i had on the run to turtle....and didnt occur to me that i should expand and beat him that way :P lol yes im cool like that lol
The watchtowers are really important in this map. This is one of those maps where you actually have to fight over them IMO. You want to get an obs and check to see if anybody has secured either a gold or island expansion, and if not, take one yourself. Scouting is key here, and despite the formidable ground distance b/w bases you still want to check for cheese & proxy because it's a 2 player map.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropsonic
Base trading is very common in this map. So when you're wrecking his base while he's wrecking yours what you do is pull all your probes and expand to HIS side of the map so that after you get done wrecking his base you can go defend your new expo.
I have a question: how i'm supposed to expand in Desert Oasis in PvZ, if my units are ass-slow, and theirs are very fast? If they know what they're doing, and build Zerglings and Mutalisks, it's damn difficult to defend my main and an expansion there.
Yeah it is tough, but Stalker/Sentry does well against that unit composition. Blink is pretty important on that map too IMO. When you expand you want to make a pylon first and then your nexus, so you can lay down some cannons. He'll inevitably harass you when your army is off on some other side of the map, so when he does warp in your units to whatever is under attack (your expo or your main).Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
The key in all of it is to be able to take an expo WHILE he is trying to kill/harass another. Defend it like Gradius said, but try to make another one somewhere else (since he won't expect that to be happening). That enables you stay in the game even if you do lose 4-5 probes in the harass exchange.
Use stalkers and 1-2 sentries to defend and in that time, use your main army out there to do some econ damage to him as well. Just make use of your FF to protect vs lings, and Blink to focus down mutas. Proxy pyloning their expo or close to it is not a bad idea either. you can retreat, and warp in 4 zealots and hide them. Prep to defend your bases when u spot him moving out or just chasing you, then use the 4 zeals to slaughter probes while ignoring lings (shift queue attack targets).
Desert Oasis is very Zerg favored, but it isn't impossible to win vs them. Just dont lose too many probes and block ling runbys using FF on your ramp and cannons/zeals at your nat or expo.
EDIT: Getting Phoenix is not a bad idea either, but you need good control to use them though. Remember, they aren't corsairs, but they're close enough ;)
Thanks, next time i'm playing there, i'll try to keep my base tight, cannon it and the expo, while building Stalkers.
Is it possible to quick expand with cannons + zealots (no gas), then take 4 gas at once, or is it suicide because Mutas will get too fast?
It's very hard to not gas because if zerg scouts it he can go muta roach and fuck you over while you frantically try to tech and counter. Roaches would eat zealots alive while mutas go to town on your cannons and, later on, your probes.
The thing is... if you succeed in getting a fast expo, zerg is kinda screwed since you will have a mow-down army at your disposal with that preferential income.
I had a fun PvP match the other day. It was on Scrap Station, or whatever it is called. I did a standard build to double and eventually triple Gateways, but he was proxy-ing me with cannons right inside my base. He was pushing into my probe line, and there were far too many cannons to destroy. So I took a gamble and sent two Zealots into his base. I killed a few probes, took some damage - one Zealot had only 1 HP left - and ultimately destroyed his Nexus using just the two Zealots. Back at my main base I mined a tiny bit more to get 400 Minerals and went and made a second Nexus at my natural. With all his resources piled into the proxy and a handful of Zealots (I had a few too), he said gg when he realized I had gotten a second base up.
yeah, that good work. although its always a terrible feeling getting caught off guard by a proxy, you should always try to hang in there.. those situations can be often be turned around!
Here's an interesting game. I played very defensively, he kept raiding my worker lines but I replenished them and fought him off. I ultimately had eight Warp Gates ready to warp in reinforcements and I think I just out-macroed him, seizing both high yield expansions until I felt confident enough in my forces to push into his base. I still need to work on the macro though, I could and should have taken a third base. But I'm overall pleased with how I did. Rewatching the replay, I simply could not have made the final push into his base without the Warp Prism warping in reinforcements in the middle of the battle. It helped a lot and I overwhelmed him with Stalkers, Zealots and a handful of Immortals and Sentries.
A few times the lag screwed up my micro. I note these instances colorfully. :p
Very nice use of that warp prism there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang
But as you say, you need to work VERY hard on your macro. You had soooooo few of those probes. You expansion and main were far from saturated.
Keep building probes, even if you build too many, so that you can always saturate a new expansion asap.
What league was that in, btw ? :=)
Bronze.
Macro has always been my weak spot, even in the original SC. I never expand fast enough or often enough, and never make enough workers. I'm pleased with my early performance with about two dozen of them at my main. 6 for Vespene and what was it, 16-18 for the 8 mineral field? Sounds about right to me. But yeah, I never had enough at the expansions.
For max saturation, you'd want 3 workers per mineral and 3 per vespene geyser. For max effectiveness you should have 2. But it's always better to have more, since you can saturate a fresh expo faster that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang
A good advice, is also that once you have an army, attack move it, and forget about it. Then macro up.
Once you get good at macroing, take a look on how your army is doing once in a while and perhaps micro a little.
Don't have the replay but late game PvZ on Lost Temple the other day I did some pretty snazzy Blink micro. Ran into an expo on the other side of the map, trashed the Queen and caused a bit of damage, I may have destroyed the Hatch, can't remember. Anyway, thanks to an Observer I saw his army coming for me so I waited until they came up into the base, then Blink'd down the cliff to escape without a scratch. Blink'd to chase his units and keep up with them, Blink'd down the hill into my high-yield expansion to defend it, and when I finally attacked I sent a lone Stalker up the ramp for sight and Blink'd the rest up.
I have to use this ability more often.
Yeah, not for nothing Lost Temple was and is played so much.
Stalker + Colossi is a crazy combination. You have AoE and huge mobility, with cliff climbing in both units. Stalker protects Colossi from air units, and Colossi protect Stalkers from mass ground units. Colossi even give vision above the cliff for Blinking upwards, in case you don't have an Observer (which you should).
I had a large excess of resources in this map and could have researched and built more units, but aside from the excess I think I did a good job of saturating my two bases this time around. I researched the Colossi upgrade because I was intending to make them until I saw no detectors, so I went for a Dark Shrine and he left when I DT rushed his workers.
In other news the guy was a really sore loser and frankly, didn't seem very good. He had very few workers when I came calling, according to the score screen I had a full twice as many resources (7,*** to 14,***), and his only offensive move was to send two Reapers. I told him I was ready and had two Stalkers at my cliff to chase them off. Besides that he just turtled up with Marauders and Tanks and that. I msg'd him after just to say gg, but he proceeded to complain I won by a bitch move, he expected more of me, wasn't a fun game, "I guess some people just hold themselves to higher standards," and in general just being a really sore loser.
But yeah, lame gameplay aside I just wanted to show off my saturation.
well,when i get protoss i fast rush everytime
for me is the best choice
in the late game vr and colosi are great..
I concur. I'm always hitting first in my games. Unless it's Zerg. They usually get out 4 - 6 Zerglings before I can get out 2 or 3 zealots. Then I have probably launching an assault because I'm out numbered. I try to at least get 4 warp gates by my ramp to start me off. Most of the time I can end it before I need anything else. Of course I've teched a bit so I can get my tier 1 upgraded. Never got a chance to use Air or the Colossus much in the beta though. I'm pretty sure I'll probably stick with Protoss, but I'm not sure still.Quote:
Originally Posted by DutuCatalin
Against fast lings (ie 8 pools) you just need to make a choke with 1 Pylon and 1 gate (or 1 pylon 1 gate and your 2nd gate / core), and stick 1 zealot there while you get a second one, and then keep making them till you can push out with 3-4 zeals and engage his fast expo (if he is), or just force him to get spine crawlers and more lings. That hurts the zerg more than anything while your econ remains intact and you tech to something or take your natural.
Against FE zergs, you can open with 2 gates and add gas after your 3rd zealot and make a core right after to continue pushing with 3 gates, until he has a lot of speedlings and then you can crush him with 4 gate push - expo. If he roaches, just get robo tech and get 1 immortal, or skip the Immortal for a fast Bay so that by the time his hydras are out, you own his army with Colossi (just don't let it die).
What is the makes number of gate ways you guys usually make at protoss. I get about 4 up and that seems to supply me through out the game.
4 on 1 base. On 2 base you need to go up to 8. And on 3 base, u need like 12+ (upto 18) since the income is so high you can spam gateway units really really fast.
This is esp true in close PvP's. You NEED to replenish faster than your opponent or you'll get steamrolled. And every time you push, you expand.
well something i was toying around with before beta ended was actually archons
dunno if people noticed, but these guys are beasts! fast archon build actually worked wonders against the zerg (as long as they dont mass hydra, but even still, backup with sentries), and a terrain infantry build, these guys are beasts
2 archons vs mutas and speedlings, backuped by a few zeals and sentries and stalkers, destroyed the whole army of the zerg which was 5x my size :P never noticed how powerful they are. guess that gives me a great alternative to mix it up abit rather than go HT storming
storm is great too but im starting to love fast archons more and more
assss long as its not against another toss, they tend to get owned quick
Just never paid close enough attention to notice during gameplay, so just a handful of questions about the Sentry's Guardian Shield.
- Is the effect cumulative if a unit is covered by several Sentries with shields?
- Is the Sentry itself protected by its own shield?
- If not, can two Sentries protect each other with shield?
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang
Yes
N/A