The Protoss Players Thread

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Originally Posted by DesertRose

1. You build two additional Pylons at the beginning, but you'll just need one. Better save the minerals for an earlier Core, Forge or Assimilator.
2. You build a second Warp Gate, but that keeps you from producing additonal Zealots for a couple of seconds because you're out of minerals; better wait one or two probes later before building the second one.
3. Sometime you build 3 Probes at once, don't do this. It will prevent you from using 100 M for other things. Hotkey your production builds (you have, that's good) and click on the hotkey from time to time, if you see they're only one or zero Probes currently being build (small white squares if you have selected more than one building) build an additonal one.
4. Building placement; it may be personal preferences, but I always build a line of Pylons and build my builds right next to the line. That way each building is powered by multiple Pylons. In your replay some of your buildings were only powered by one or two Pylons. Either build your Pylons right next to your buildings, or at the edge of your base; e.g. the right corner right next to the choke point is a good place for a Pylon, then you'll always see if your opponent passes by.
5. Cannon placement; build one Pylon each at the corner of your Nexus that are parallel to the mineral line (in your replay it would have been the upper right and the under left), then build two cannons between your Nexus and the minerals, place the cannons right next to the Nexus. That will keep your Probes save from early harassment and will only slightly disturb your Probes from harvesting.
6. Don't forget to continuing build up your base and army; during both attacks you let your minearls go up to 500-700. You also build way to many Warp Gates; you can afford only 3-4 Warp Gate per base.

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Thanks for the long list of advice : ) I'll definitely keep this in mind. All the time, i thought i was during everything right, except for the part with too many minerals. But i really need to try this out today :)

Hey, when you psionic storm a colossus, do you aim at the feet, or aim at the head? I always think of colossi as flying units (thought technically ground) that can be hit with ground attacks, so I'm thinking the feet, but which is it?

Feet.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Feet.

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Just like a flying unit, ok thanks.

void rays > everything

beat a huge tank push terran and some zerg going ling rush into mass roaches
with 6 void rays , its handy to keep a probe hidden somewhere on the field incase your main is going down and quickly hit up a nexus or pylon somewhere

This how a proper PvP should look. Screw Void Rays. Both players blindly assault the others base and the one with the smarter tech and strategy wins lol.

haha

I'm all for that XD

i havea question, how do i counter a maruder+ thore + viking terran combination (as playing toss ofc :P) like i saw a few mass armies like it, and was like "crap.. and what now?", know how to counter thors with void rays, but how to i counter those viking that give air cover, if i cant shoot them (i tryed with my stalkers, but they got taken down by maruders nad thors, i also tryed to add some immortal to it or colossi.. but i still fail :P)

PS: im a noob im playing a week or so

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Originally Posted by Klifer

i havea question, how do i counter a maruder+ thore + viking terran combination (as playing toss ofc :P) like i saw a few mass armies like it, and was like "crap.. and what now?", know how to counter thors with void rays, but how to i counter those viking that give air cover, if i cant shoot them (i tryed with my stalkers, but they got taken down by maruders nad thors, i also tryed to add some immortal to it or colossi.. but i still fail :P)

PS: im a noob im playing a week or so

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The answer is to cry in a corner and hope its over quickly. Alternatively, mass Phoenix OR HT and Chargelots.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

The answer is to cry in a corner and hope its over quickly. Alternatively, mass Phoenix OR HT and Chargelots.

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hmm interesting :P i think crying in the corner is more optimum :P

cheers ;)

Lot of chargelots to keep Marauders busy, few Stalkers to focus down Thors, and Phoenixes to take down those Vikings(after or at the same time use gravitation beam as much as possible to help your ground army).

I could be wrong, but this is how I'd try to counter them.


On other news, I'd like some as detailed opinions and critique as possible from a PvP game that I just played, probably my best match that I've played so far! So if this is the best I can do right now, what I should do to get better?

http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/3926

Points that I myself noticed is that my macro in this one is 2,3x better than in my previous matches, but, still lacks.
- I didn't saturate my expansion, but I managed to create army all the time and even build two extra gateways + forge!
- I messed up 2-3 times badly with blink, and could've used few sentries.
- Didn't scout enough, was too afraid of losing observers.

Thanks for your time :)

I just lost to a Marine rush. FML.

i zealoted them marine rushin bitchez to outer space :p

I've seen a lot of protoss replays (mainly thanks to Crota!) and I've seen a few starting build orders from a few of the pros, and I'm just wondering what one is considered best when you don't know if the opponent is going to proxy or early pool you.

1)
8.5 chrono probes
10 pylon
10 gateway - chrono probes

2)
9 pylon
10 chrono probes
13 gate

3)
9 pylon
12 forge
14 cannon

Is there a certain one that you would use against against Terran/Zerg/Mirror?

i think, as long as i dont see an early cheese, i usually always go the same

9 pylon
12 gateway
14 gas

if i see early cheese, i'de probably get a forge earlier, maybe even a second gate earlier

Any advice for battlecruisers? Stalkers can't touch them, and neither can Phoenix. Void Rays are ok...but they're kind of expensive and unless you pump from 2 stargates you'll be outmatched. Plus the BCs can take out a Void Ray in a single Yamato shot. On top of all this, after a fight, the guy just repairs his BCs and they're good as new even if you did some damage. Would HT + Void Rays work? High Templar to feedback them, and Voids to finish them off.

I wouldnt say that Grad.. I kicked BC @$$ with a bunch of Stalkers

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Any advice for battlecruisers? Stalkers can't touch them, and neither can Phoenix. Void Rays are ok...but they're kind of expensive and unless you pump from 2 stargates you'll be outmatched. Plus the BCs can take out a Void Ray in a single Yamato shot. On top of all this, after a fight, the guy just repairs his BCs and they're good as new even if you did some damage. Would HT + Void Rays work? High Templar to feedback them, and Voids to finish them off.

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You're on the right track, but the proper combo is HT + Stalker. I am LOVING Templar tech vs Terran. You can feedback half their army (Ghost, Thor, Medevac, Banshee, Raven, BC), and effectively storm another quarter (Marine, Marauder, Tank). The only units which can avoid most storm damage are Reapers, Hellions, and Vikings. All of which die to Stalkers very, very quickly.

I almost never bother with air vs Terran these days.

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Originally Posted by Flatus

Lot of chargelots to keep Marauders busy, few Stalkers to focus down Thors, and Phoenixes to take down those Vikings(after or at the same time use gravitation beam as much as possible to help your ground army).

I could be wrong, but this is how I'd try to counter them.

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i could also be wrong, bu he mentioned Thors, which augt to be quite good vs phoenix,s ince they are light.

your better off taking the fight on the ground i'd say; zealot /stalker /immortal /sentry ... where the fiht stands would be important.


About BC:s VR + HT sounds like a plan, but you if BC's are teh main crux, yuo might aswell use your gateways to churn out some stalkers, sicne they are good firepower vs armored - especialy compared to gas cost.

in longer term on larger scale, VR HT should certainly be a somewhat hard counter, taking upgrades into consideration; your armor /shield upps will negate his attack ups, while the upgrades to fully charged VR damage is surely more than 1 per upgrade, also, once you have the speed upgrade for the VR, you'll have significant mobility advantage.

i guess it'll depend alot on circusmtances & micro surounding feedback / yamoto / feedback denial / EMP / other unit composition / postion / etc

@ Gradius

To be honest, from what I've seen, Terran players go more with mass Vikings than mass BCs. But as far as countering the BC's, I've had success with focusing them down with stalkers or parking an observer by their starports and hitting them with VRs before they have enough BC's to make a dif. Other than that, our AA is so damn terrible I feel like we need to take the offensive in an air battle as soon as possible, because once they mass vikings we are pretty much screwed.

Dropping some immortals into their starports, usually in the rear of their base and away from their ground troops, seems to work well too since it sets them back right off the bat.

Alternatively, has anyone noticed that carriers seem really terrible, and that our air units are kind of underpowered and expensive (this last makes sense but at least our units used to be worth the extra expenditure)?

Carriers blow hard. We don't need em.

I guess what bothers me is the fact that we only really have 1 viable air unit, and 1 AA unit not counting HT's....Scouts may have been expensive but at least they were hardy enough to stay in the fight and could harass worker lines.

i recently lost a 2v2 game where we ended up massing: 200/20 vikings with 200 / 200 infantery (with ghosts + a few thors) lost to mass carriers and mass stalkers.

... carriers deal good damge, an cand still do damage while keeping at a LONG distance from teh enemy in other ways than other p air.

get your priorities straight; its the mohtership that is truely awfull!

First of all, did you upgrade your vikings? Second, vikings out range the hell out of carriers, and if you micro them even a little you can EASILY one volley shot any carrier and move out of range of the stalkers, even taking blink into account. In addition to which, viking as best used to pick off heavy units and attack the enemy base/supply lines. I tried a few joke 2v2 games as Terran/Terran and the only units we built other than base defense units was vikings. Didnt matter what they had, we could hit their supplies/overlords and smash their bases before their ground forces could counter. Not to mention that you can go to mass vikings about 8 minutes in. And in the event they had some air, we just stayed together and one shotted anything they built.

It was faceroll after faceroll...

Case in point, http://www.youtube.com/StarCraftLega...13/c09EBsYXj1Y

In the vid above, Crota and Ascension are mobbed by mass vikings, all ChowYunCat (lol) does is get a bitchin economy and pump out as many vikings as possible. The zerg contribute some but they are basically cannon fodder as wave after wave of vikings push into Ascension's base.

Nerf vikings imo, or somehow push them further into the tech tree or at least make them cost more gas than a stalker...

Vikings die in droves to any cheap mass-able unit. Mass Zerglings and Infestors with Fungal Growth would DECIMATE a Viking army.

Critique me :

http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/4984

Has anyone seen any great phoenix usage replays after the patch? Preferably hosted. I haven't been able to find any yet, but I'm watching videos before-patch where protoss players use phoenixes so greatly with constant harrashment, so I can only imagine how awesome they are now in hands of good players.

Drops, watching your replay atm...
- Around 4:40 you let zerglings to surround your zealots at your own choke point, that was really bad situation. Remember to put those two of those zealots in hold-mode and you'll win any zealot rush :) Though I admit that that position was hard to block quickly as your gateway itself blocks the view to the chokepoint where you're supposed to put your zealots xd
- Around 6:00 you dance nicely with the 'lings, blocking their way, but you make mistake of pulling your zealots too much back. If the zerg-player would've pushed right then, he would've gotten past them and straight to the mineral line.
- At 16:00 or so your stalkers got stuck behind stalkers on front, micro them a bit so all stalkers can do their job :)

Other than those little things, scout more! One observer going around the map keeping expansions at check can do a lot for you.

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Originally Posted by Flatus

Drops, watching your replay atm...
- Around 4:40 you let zerglings to surround your zealots at your own choke point, that was really bad situation. Remember to put those two of those zealots in hold-mode and you'll win any zealot rush :) Though I admit that that position was hard to block quickly as your gateway itself blocks the view to the chokepoint where you're supposed to put your zealots xd
- Around 6:00 you dance nicely with the 'lings, blocking their way, but you make mistake of pulling your zealots too much back. If the zerg-player would've pushed right then, he would've gotten past them and straight to the mineral line.
- At 16:00 or so your stalkers got stuck behind stalkers on front, micro them a bit so all stalkers can do their job :)

Other than those little things, scout more! One observer going around the map keeping expansions at check can do a lot for you.

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Will do :) Thanks!

man i blow hard when i try to zealot rush :P opponent always ends up making more....thats it, no more zealot rushes till i can perfect it lol

anyways, hows this replay look, was pvp, was tryin more hotkeys, hotkeying more stuff, and trying to micro/macro better, better than my other replays, but obviously did bunch of stuff wrong, would love some critique on it to find out my exact faults, maybe even ones i didnt see

i know collossi were pretty late, mainly because i honestly forgot bout them lol till near the end, than the thought occured "hmm...no stargates....might as well go for collossi" was going immortal build before than

edit: and yes, i am aware i was cash floating like a mofo....problem is, i tried to balance that out by building more gateways and robos....but i just had so much money i had no idea what to do with it...plus i 1 pyloned myself on 4 gateways which coulda been bad if he saw that.......and when i got into the battle at the end, i was still building collossi at my base, but i had huge amount of money and didnt use it...some tips on how to improve this especially would be great

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Originally Posted by tam

man i blow hard when i try to zealot rush :P opponent always ends up making more....thats it, no more zealot rushes till i can perfect it lol

anyways, hows this replay look, was pvp, was tryin more hotkeys, hotkeying more stuff, and trying to micro/macro better, better than my other replays, but obviously did bunch of stuff wrong, would love some critique on it to find out my exact faults, maybe even ones i didnt see

i know collossi were pretty late, mainly because i honestly forgot bout them lol till near the end, than the thought occured "hmm...no stargates....might as well go for collossi" was going immortal build before than

edit: and yes, i am aware i was cash floating like a mofo....problem is, i tried to balance that out by building more gateways and robos....but i just had so much money i had no idea what to do with it...plus i 1 pyloned myself on 4 gateways which coulda been bad if he saw that.......and when i got into the battle at the end, i was still building collossi at my base, but i had huge amount of money and didnt use it...some tips on how to improve this especially would be great

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Alright.
First of all, don't try to split your workers when beginning. Select them all and point the to one mineral patch, and they will automatically split up.

Then, you should scout.

You should scout.

Did i say that you have to scout?

By scouting, you could've pushed out with those zealots way earlier, since your opponent teched.

Use your forge. Your opponent had 1+ armor and weapons. You had 0 0 0.

Build more warpgates/robo's. Your opponent had 6 WG and 2 robo's, while you had 2 WG's and two robo's, and you didn't use that second robo at all.

The easiest solution to your resource problem, is that once you have a natural, don't go for minerals first. Build assimilators asap, and start harvesting that gas.

And again. Scout. If you had scouted that robo, you could've gone Void rays or something.
Also, zealots are useless mid game. The become very useful though, when they have charge. Try that out.

Also, bind your production buildings and such to hotkeys. I always have my nexus' at ctrl 5, robos at 3, main army at 1, collosi at 2. Remember that you can select ALL of your WG's by pressing W.

You don't suck at this game. You just need some practice. You can improve a lot :)

umm dude....i was DragonOfTheW.nemesis............i was the one with the robos, and 6 wgs..... etc :P

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Originally Posted by tam

umm dude....i was DragonOfTheW.nemesis............i was the one with the robos, and 6 wgs..... etc :P

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Whoopsie : ) Didn't see you write that anywhere :=)

Hell, it's only my skill that sucks, or Protoss T1 is kinda pityfull? I mean, Zealots are easily kited without Charge, and Stalkers get owned by cheaper units like Marauders.

It seems like to win i need to tech to Void Rays (if they get too Marauder-centric), or outmacro the Terran, which isn't too easy, given the cost of their units.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Hell, it's only my skill that sucks, or Protoss T1 is kinda pityfull? I mean, Zealots are easily kited without Charge, and Stalkers get owned by cheaper units like Marauders.

It seems like to win i need to tech to Void Rays (if they get too Marauder-centric), or outmacro the Terran, which isn't too easy, given the cost of their units.

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Remember sentries. With guardian shield, stalkers own marauders, and with some well placed force fields, zealots become impossible to kite.

didnt think i had to write that down anywhere :P lol

now that u know who i was in the replay, mind actually seeing it from my perspective and seeing what i can do diff? :)

norf: immortals brutalize marauders. and so do stalkers with the right unit mix backing them up. sentries, and stalkers are a pretty good team

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Originally Posted by tam

didnt think i had to write that down anywhere :P lol

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Well, how do you expect people to see who is who then ?

ive posted various replays before with the same nick, plus my nick is written in the beta names thread in general discussion :) i'll write from now on i suppose :P

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Originally Posted by Dropsonic

Remember sentries. With guardian shield, stalkers own marauders, and with some well placed force fields, zealots become impossible to kite.

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Is there a strat that doesn't involve sentries? Or a PvP strat that beats someone who utilizes sentries?

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Originally Posted by GnaReffotsirk

Is there a strat that doesn't involve sentries? Or a PvP strat that beats someone who utilizes sentries?

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Sentries are quite fragile, and quite vulnerable to ranged attacks. Since sentries are always " in the middle " of a protoss army, the should be easy to with chargetlots ( if there isn't that many forcefields ), blinking stalkers, and collosi late game.

Experiment.