Terran Imbalanced Cheese Strategy

I was playing someone in a 1v1 game today and believe I was the victim of a terribly imbalanced Terran cheese strategy. I'd like to describe it here int he hopes that someone can comment on it, as to whether it truly an imbalance.

Short summary:

Terran rushes with 2 barracks outside my base. I spot it. He sends marines + most of his workers. I fend him off, but we both lose units and workers while fighting inside my base. He wins because he can call down MULEs to gather minerals when both our workers numbers have been decimated.

Longer version:

A 1v1 game.
Me: Protoss
Him: Terran

Him: He builds 1 depot in his main right away, then takes that SCV outside of my base and builds 1 barracks. He sends another SCV to arrive while the first barracks is half done and uses it to build a 2nd barrack.

Me: I spot no barracks inside his base with my probe. I immediately move my probe back to the destructible rocks entrance at the rear of my base. I spot the 1st barrack being started and another of his SCVs on the way. I had 1 gateway already warping in. I assumed he was going to cheese with another barrack and made a 2nd gateway to keep up. I started chrono boosting my gateway to make my first zealot and make a cannon next to my nexus.

Him: He upgrades his command center to orbital command and sends all but 3 SCVs to rush me, along with his marines. He uses call down MULE to continue to make money, while pumping marines and moves in all his SCVs and marines (which he continually pumps) to attack my probes and block off my zealots.

Me: I make as many zealots as I can, chrono boost my gateways, make as many zealots as I can, and try to fight him with my zealots and probes.

We both lose fighting units and workers, and I manage to fend him off, killing his marines and SCVs, but my economy is ruined. I cannot get extra minerals to build up more zealots, but he can use call down MULE to keep his economy going (even when he lost most all his SCVs). In the end I lose.

What I expect:

Some way to fend this off.

Suggestions:

I don't know, maybe static base defenses should be stronger? I don't even know if it would help. He would just do the same thing except outside the perimeter of my canon.

What do you think?

Edited for stupidity.

First: I disagree

Scond: This is in the wrong Forum, must go on Strategy

Make canons. Or block of choke with 2 sentries and tech while he has no minerals.

That being said its still kind of imbalanced against protoss, certain maps don't have a blockable choke and going forge puts you at a eco disadvantage. Half of the of maps will let you come back from the disadvantage because of an easy expo or tech advantage, but another good portion of them gimp you pretty hard. Scrap station for example.

That being said, I don't understand why hes making them outside your base. Most forms of this cheese simply involve him making them in his own after walling off his choke. As the below poster suggests, just kill his SCV, the deadlier variations of this are inside his own base.

Go kill the SCVs building the barracks. Not rocket science.

Moved to the strategy forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hav0x

Go kill the SCVs building the barracks. Not rocket science.

---

1) it is now very hard to target a SCV building a large struct in SC2. the SCV is mostly inside the structure (where it can't be targeted) instead of on the outside. see http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...=5000&pageNo=1

2) he sent all but 3 of his SCVs to rush me. he can finish his barrack with those SCVs while using MULE plus a few SCVs left in back in his base for money.

3) if i take my probes off my mineral line, i can't make zealots while he can make marines once his SCV rush make it to his barracks location.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sysrpl

1) it is now very hard to target a SCV building a large struct in SC2. the SCV is mostly inside the structure (where it can't be targeted) instead of on the outside. see http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...=5000&pageNo=1

2) he sent all but 3 of his SCVs to rush me. he can finish his barrack with those SCVs while using MULE plus a few SCVs left in back in his base for money.

3) if i take my probes off my mineral line, i can't make zealots while he can make marines once his SCV rush make it to his barracks location.

---

I've been able to target them perfectly fine. And if he is only using a mule to mine it is only equal to about 5 SCVs mining so its not like he is getting tons and tons of minerals.

Not to mention he needs that first barracks completed for him to go Orbital Command and even when he has that first one complete he still needs 150 minerals to complete it.

IMO its completely stoppable. Post your replay and maybe we can give you some tips on what you could do to stop it.

most ppl talk like as if this is rlly easy to defend
well those ppl will learn how to be quiet when they get owned and get it tried on themselves cuz it's ridiculously imbalanced
AND
ppl say u can go forge first to defend
well guess what
1. going forge first or even building forge early game against terran is already being at huge tech disadvantage
2. when they see the forge, they can just simply expand while u waste your precious minerals on forge and cannons
so those ppl who talk like "oh stop complaining u loser it's so easy to block" should reconsider or try to defend it themselves
then they'll learn how to be quiet and start sending some feedback to blizzard to fix this imbalance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hav0x

I've been able to target them perfectly fine. And if he is only using a mule to mine it is only equal to about 5 SCVs mining so its not like he is getting tons and tons of minerals.

Not to mention he needs that first barracks completed for him to go Orbital Command and even when he has that first one complete he still needs 150 minerals to complete it.

IMO its completely stoppable. Post your replay and maybe we can give you some tips on what you could do to stop it.

---

Here is a replay link:

http://imagebot.org/replays/marines-rush.SC2Replay

It just seemed like bad luck/bad play IMO.

Your probe just missed the barracks when you scouted. You can easily remedy this by checking out the areas close to your base that he may have a barracks building before heading for his base.

You didn't block your choke. I never leave my choke unblocked, you're just asking to be rushed if you do.

You attacked him with only a couple zealots. You shouldn't have went to him, you should have massed up at your choke (which should have been blocked) and waited for him to attack so you could control the flow of the battle using your choke. Your workers would have been safe and you would have been able to out-macro him.

You weren't using chrono-boost whenever it was available. You had almost 100 energy saved up at one point while you were pumping out zealots.

I'm not saying its the easiest thing in the world to stop but it is far from impossible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hav0x

It just seemed like bad luck/bad play IMO.

Your probe just missed the barracks when you scouted. You can easily remedy this by checking out the areas close to your base that he may have a barracks building before heading for his base.

You didn't block your choke. I never leave my choke unblocked, you're just asking to be rushed if you do.

You attacked him with only a couple zealots. You shouldn't have went to him, you should have massed up at your choke (which should have been blocked) and waited for him to attack so you could control the flow of the battle using your choke. Your workers would have been safe and you would have been able to out-macro him.

You weren't using chrono-boost whenever it was available. You had almost 100 energy saved up at one point while you were pumping out zealots.

I'm not saying its the easiest thing in the world to stop but it is far from impossible to stop.

---

Okay, I watched the replay again. Although I did use chrono boost a few times to make zealots faster, you are right, I did have at least two charges I didn't use on my gateways earlier on.

Also, a mistake in my description earlier. He completed his 2nd barrack when my scout made the trip back. He sent 2 workers at the same time.

Regarding the blocking of the front. I've had this rush happen on me before on this same map (which is why I placed the pylon at my backdoor rocks). In the other game the terran busted down the rocks with his SCVs in front 8+ marines while pumping in back. The rocks came down in no time and by passed by blocked front.

Maybe it is stoppable, but given the call down MULE ability, the tactic is too effective IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sysrpl

Okay, I watched the replay again. Although I did use chrono boost a few times to make zealots faster, you are right, I did have at least two charges I didn't use on my gateways earlier on.

Also, a mistake in my description earlier. He completed his 2nd barrack when my scout made the trip back. He sent 2 workers at the same time.

Regarding the blocking of the front. I've had this rush happen on me before on this same map (which is why I placed the pylon at my backdoor rocks). In the other game the terran busted down the rocks with his SCVs in front 8+ marines while pumping in back. The rocks came down in no time and by passed by blocked front.

Maybe it is stoppable, but given the call down MULE ability, the tactic is too effective IMO.

---

Which is why you keep a pylon over there like you did to keep an eye on it. If they are over there shooting it be waiting for them on the other side of the bushes. Bushes can make be a great help against marines and other ranged units. Just don't let your zealots run to the other side of the bushes to attack. Make them come to you so they need LoS to hit you.

the best way to stop this would have been to scout him and either see that he has 2 barracks being built outside your base or see his base and notice that no barracks have gone up inside his base.

i haven't played beta so if this does turn out to be a huge problem they could just make MULEs a tier 1.5 ability instead of tier 1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by warrior6

the best way to stop this would have been to scout him and either see that he has 2 barracks being built outside your base or see his base and notice that no barracks have gone up inside his base.

i haven't played beta so if this does turn out to be a huge problem they could just make MULEs a tier 1.5 ability instead of tier 1

---

They could also slap a gas requirement on the orbital command to delay it slightly.