Re: The Terran players thread
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Man, Terrans are so whipped. If you're not 100% totally safe behind your stupid wall, then you're dead. Please.
Too bad late game with upgrades we powerball through all your measly troops.
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So all the Zerg has to do is rush with 6 Lings and basic micro, and I have to be on top of my game just to survive? That sound unreasonable to anyone else?
Well it was like this in SC1 as well. Both sides need to micro, but I think microing lings is harder. If he's microing he has to also macro. If he's not, then he'll be even farther behind if you manage to defend his rush.
Re: The Terran players thread
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Both sides need to micro, but I think microing lings is harder. If he's microing he has to also macro. If he's not, then he'll be even farther behind if you manage to defend his rush.
Microing Lings is harder? I'm sure it is when we're at armies of 5+ units each, but if you watch this game I literally have ONE Marine out by the time he attacks with 6 Zerglings.
Re: The Terran players thread
Alright so I watched your replay. Your first SCV scout didn't even scout his base, you just went straight to the expansion and sat there. Why?
If you went into his base you would have saw that he was rushing you. Solution? Build a bunker at your choke, and make another supply depot to finish blocking off. I don't usually go double barracks first. I get my addon before, but that's just me.
Re: The Terran players thread
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
If you went into his base you would have saw that he was rushing you. Solution? Build a bunker at your choke, and make another supply depot to finish blocking off. I don't usually go double barracks first. I get my addon before, but that's just me.
Question; Does the need to build such a massive blockade feel like it is putting you behind. And secondly would not a massive blockade have Baneling Bust written all over it?
Re: The Terran players thread
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Originally Posted by
Taoo
Question; Does the need to build such a massive blockade feel like it is putting you behind. And secondly would not a massive blockade have Baneling Bust written all over it?
The Bust is exactly what I expressed concern with once Pand showed me his emergency blockade. The 3 or so Depots don't really hurt that much economy-wise, I don't think, but it's such an awkward placement that getting your Rax/Factories behind it later is going to make your wall so thick your units won't be able to shoot past it, much less actually GET to the front without 20 seconds' worth of Lifting Upping.
Re: The Terran players thread
A video I found that deals with Baneling Busts (though not on wide chokes);
http://www.own3d.tv/video/25606/TvZ_...stop_Banelings
Re: The Terran players thread
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The Bust is exactly what I expressed concern with once Pand showed me his emergency blockade. The 3 or so Depots don't really hurt that much economy-wise, I don't think, but it's such an awkward placement that getting your Rax/Factories behind it later is going to make your wall so thick your units won't be able to shoot past it, much less actually GET to the front without 20 seconds' worth of Lifting Upping.
I think you're vastly exaggerating. I replaced one barracks with a supply depot. That hardly counts as clutter. In fact, it opens up a wider choke for your units to exit, instead of having 2 thick barrack walls.
Secondly, yes, there's the baneling bust but when is that not a problem? There's always the threat of a baneling bust. The point is that in rushing, he'll fall behind if he doesn't do any damage which allows you to mass up infantry quickly along with stim, and counter rush before he can put anything up or get banelings. If he starts massing spine crawlers than that means you forced him to waste money on crawlers, allowing you to shift to factory tech or even starport tech.
Re: The Terran players thread
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Originally Posted by
pure.Wasted
So all the Zerg has to do is rush with 6 Lings and basic micro, and I have to be on top of my game just to survive? That sound unreasonable to anyone else?
Now this I disagree with. He might have lost 3 more eggs to Zerglings (instead of Drones) as opposed to the usual, but I lost way more than 3 SCVs, AND I lost LOTS of mineral time. I don't see how I could have had an advantage had I survived.
Can I just take a second to vent here? I'm sick and tired of Zerg doing nothing out of the ordinary, and me having to bend over backwards just to SURVIVE. They figure out that Banelings exist and can actually be used to blow up walls? Great, now we have to wall in 3x as thick JUST IN CASE he decides to get any Banelings somewhere down the line. And now they're rushing without even scouting, and it's completely viable and guaranteed to put me at an econ disadvantage, if not end the game right then and there.
What's the Terran equivalent? I have to get like 3 tech labs and an upgrade to make Reapers viable, and a single Stalker/Roach/Marauder will completely nullify my harass.
The thing is, I don't even know if the wall around the main would help me. I already have trouble being outmacroed by Zerg players that take advantage of their map control. A wall around my CC sounds like I'm just begging to be contained even more than I usually am, and I can't afford a disadvantage like that.
I have to kinda agree with this. I mean, yeah you're a bit overreacting but there definitely seems to be something wrong with this match-up. In any case, it's still way better than TvP in the original Starcraft BW. Nothing was more imbalanced than this damn MU... I still have nightmares of how protoss could laugh at my mines/vulture/siege wall and just recall all over the place or tech switch to carriers and snipe all my stuff by doing easy micro over the ledge.
Re: The Terran players thread
I watched the rep, PW. :]
The Zerg player did an 8-pool on you. That's not standard. Most Zergs only get their Spawning Pool at 14, or do an Overpool. Basically, that wasn't your standard 'starting 6 Zerglings' - that was a straight-up rush. That, along with the wide ramp of Scrap Station, can be a tough combination.
However, I do need to put a bit of blame on you :p. Most importantly - you were playing in the dark. You had the opportunity to scout the Zerg player's base (I was happy with the timing of your scout), but instead of spotting those Lings or seeing that very early Pool. you didn't even go inside the Zerg's base - you just had your SCV patrolling the natural, assuming that the Zerg was going to fast expand.
If you had spotted those Lings incoming, or seen the early pool, you could have not worried about getting an Orbital Command so early (I know you didnt get one at all, but I'm just saying), built more SCVs and Marines, and pulled SCVs off.
I thought it was a bit bizarre that you started your Orbital then canceled almost immediately, and you did this before you saw the Zerg's Lings :p. What was your reasoning behind that? :p Actually, maybe it would have been better if you had gotten it up, because even if you lost a couple SCVs, you could still recover with MULEs.
All that said, I've never actually done an 8-pool on Scrap Station, but if it's so unstoppable, I'm sure we'd be seeing a lot more of it on that map, and I haven't. o_0
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Originally Posted by
sandwich_bird
I have to kinda agree with this. I mean, yeah you're a bit overreacting but there definitely seems to be something wrong with this match-up.
:mad:
Re: The Terran players thread
iv spent today playing Terran, Custom mostly, but some ladder, its hard for me to play at the level i play zerg...
anyway, iv got some builds /strategies that im trying to get to work in differnet MU's : Vs Protoss, im loving the reapers, and im trying to make em alst into the midgame.
one idea is to go 9rax 9ref to get that first reaper out asap for harassment. however, i never deal enough damage with taht for it to feel significant..
instead im opting for 10rax 10 ref 10 supply, to make my OC as early as 12 to get the funding to power that second rax asap.
im careful to keep my reapers alive; get one or two of them first thing. then add marauders, and try to be offensive with that combination, maybe about 1:1 ratio of marrauders & Reapers
... if my opponents goes for all ground, the idea is to scale up this idea, and add on ghosts + eventually air support.
so far iv only played noobs or VR-users with this; to be safe vs VR tech one best watch their buildings while poking in there with reapers: is something missing? ... if suspicious, better look closer & scan and delay 3rd rax / expo for factory and eng-bay..
..... i have some reps of this, but its not really crisp yet. but will post upon request.
Vs Zerg im having a more dificult time, not least cuz i havnt faced as many zergs in random custom games. The diea anyway, is to push with helion marauder, as this is something i struggle against (or well, the one time i faced it)
i've got no crisp build for this atm, but obviously you get helions first, from a reactor pre-built by rax.
attack timings are hard too. wait too long and the Z can just power econ or even get mutas up. i need options; right now im thinking about opening with reaper harass to make suire he donest get too cocky..
TvT i like the tanks. early gas to 2fact tanks is a beauty when it works, just gotta watch out for banshees & try to make a move before i get outmanoeuvred by drops. also cant get funky with the early build due to threat of reapers, need a few early marauders or at least one, with a tighter base-build (& dependant on map?)
im most excited about TvP : Marrauder/Reaper/Ghost is beautiful when it works: stim + EMP on stalker/immortal while zealots get quickly picked off by reapers -> reapers can easily persue / wreak havoc on base / workers / retreating units
