http://www.blizzblues.com/us/karune-...367810855.html
Basically: 10 - upgrade lvl = dmg.
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http://www.blizzblues.com/us/karune-...367810855.html
Basically: 10 - upgrade lvl = dmg.
Also, Immortal's new damage values are 20 base + 15 vs Armored, and Disruptor's is 10 base damage.
-Psi
Um great. So basically the upgrade is worthless.
Pretty much. And i always thought that an fully shield upgraded immortal takes only 7 damage max, guess not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
Uh, that's exactly what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfecttear
An Immortal with +3 upgrades only takes 7 damage from anything.
Wait a second DemolitionSquid, i think that Cydra is saying something different:
In the examples, the Immortal is always fully upgraded, but the damage received by an attack of 35 is still 10, so Shield upgrades don't further reduce the damage after Hardened Shields are applied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cydra
So, i think it's actually like this:
- When the Immortal gets shot, normal damage calculation is done, as if it were a normal unit.
- If the result of the calculation is lower than 10, no hardened shield mechanic is applied.
- If the result of the calculation is higher than 10, the max damage received is 10.
Hardly, it reduces damage for attacks that don't activate the hardened shields (eg, Marines, Zerglings, etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
so basicly the harden shield is good against big burst of dmg like mines, D-8 Charge, lurkers (not even sure), siege tank and nukes? :D
for normal dmg like marines etc, this will never trigger right? not quiet sure I understand (in english)
I see what you mean now Norfindel.
Wow immortals are gonna be awesome. In really late game (like in a 2v2v2v2 BGH) I assume people will mass immortals instead of carriers now. Sure interceptors deal 5x2 dmg atm but carriers cost a lot more and use more supply. Immortals on the other hand counter every late massive dmg dealing units.
For the Immortal, it is (except for attacks that naturally do less than 10). What it doesn't do is turn 100 Hp shots into 7 Hp shots.Quote:
So basically the upgrade is worthless.
And lest we forget, shields upgrades help everything the Protoss had. Air, ground, buildings, all of it.
Except air. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
No, they've got it wrong.
It's the damage that would be done minus the upgrade THEN rounded down to 10.
If you set a unit against an immortal, the attacking unit does X damage, but then -3 from fully upgraded shields and then if it is still over 10 it gets bumped down to 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cydra
Immortals do some great Dmg, but this shield crap is bullshit.
Fail!
Going back to the hardened shields, does anybody have an idea if the hardened shields still activate even if the shield points are below ten? i.e, Does the 7-point hardened shield absorb the 7 damage from a heavy hitter, and the rest is carried over to health and armor computations?
It's not that difficult. If normal Shield mechanic results in damage > 10, damage is reduced to 10. It's just that Blizzard community personnel likes to give fans completely criptic messages :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
Not sure, but it i'm going to bet that the reinforced Shield mechanic won't work if you have less than 10 Shields left, and they would work like normal Shields. Difficult to know for sure, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfecttear
The shield upgrades to nothing against tanks, nukes, archons and other heavy hitters. But the Immortal is already considered a counter to those units (because they only do 10 damage), and the answer to an Immortal is units with small, fast attacks. Like marines, zerglings and battlecruisers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandonetho
With upgraded shields, the marine who normally does 6 damage will now do 3 damage. The zergling who did 5 damage will do 2. The battlecruiser who did 64 (8*8) damage will do 40 (8*5). Shield upgrades are very important against those units who normally are Immortal counters.
Plus: While the shield upgrade might not benefit the Immortal by much, this is compensated by being very useful for other units. Think of it along the lines of how Archons benefit less from armor upgrades (since their health distribution is extremely skewed towards shields). These universal upgrades benefit each unit differently, which is what Blizzard is aiming for.
I understand it fully, i just think it is a bullshit, as Pandonetho say it basically is worthless...Quote:
It's not that difficult. If normal Shield mechanic results in damage > 10, damage is reduced to 10. It's just that Blizzard community personnel likes to give fans completely criptic messages.
This point has been utterly refuted by the simple fact that the units that counter Hardened shields counter it much less effectively with shield upgrades. That, and that shield upgrades work for all units, not just Immortals.Quote:
i just think it is a bullshit, as Pandonetho say it basically is worthless...
I mean, you can think it's BS if you want; it doesn't change the fact that shield upgrades are not suddenly worthless when you use Immortals.
I mean that shield upgrade is worthless for immortal, not like overall... Why didnt they let old mechanic? It wasnt balanced? lol!Quote:
I mean, you can think it's BS if you want; it doesn't change the fact that shield upgrades are not suddenly worthless when you use Immortals.
Those who say the shield upgrades for the Immortal are useless are idiots who believe that the enemy will stop using Marines/Zerglings/Zealots as soon as heavier units are available.
The shield upgrade will still be awesome against lings and marine...
Exactly, against those units that do below 10 damage base, the shield upgrades will be essential.
I feel like I'm chiming in with the chorus here, but the shield upgrades are in a certain sense better for the immortal than other units.
Hardened shields make the Immortal super-effective against units that do large amounts of damage. These units are generally not effected much by armor values since they have a slower rate of fire. For instance in most cases (on normal units) +3 armor doesn't matter much against a siege tank. The units that armor is most effective against are rapid-firing small-damage units, since it subtracts a more significant portion of every attack. Normally, these are the Immortal's primary weakness! However when fully shield-upgraded the effectiveness of these units is greatly reduced. So the Immortal is still awesome against big hitters like tanks, but now it is also strongly protected against low-damage units like marines. It's win/win.
Actually, it's no more strongly protected against Marines fully upped than it was at base level, because we need to remember that the Marines are also getting upgrades, which unchecked will allow them to be much more effective Immortal killers (from 17 shots initially it drops to 15 shots, then 13, then 12).
Yes, obviously upgrades can be countered by other upgrades.
It doesn't matter what upgrades the marines have, upgrading shields is beneficial. Marines are a counter to Immortals, upgrading shields makes them softer counters than before. 3 is less than 6 and 6 is less than 9.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattII
Shield upgrades work for every protoss unit, I'd say that would be well worth getting the upgrade.
With High Templars having a shield recharge ability and hardened shields in the game, getting the upgrade will help quite a bit. Sure shields take full damage, but the way bonus works is different now and they only take full damage based on the armor type of the unit. Zealots shields won't be taking the extra damage from siege tank blasts.
I think he means that when the Immortal Shields are fully upgraded, and also the Marine attack, it's the same than both of them unupgraded, but that's how it's supposed to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrblt
Yep, they're identical to the unit's armor, a Protoss Shield is now an extension from the unit's HP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron