Right now the high ground mechanics is a do or die with needing spotters. What if they added a -2 range penalty to low ground so that even with a spotter high ground still has the advantage?
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Right now the high ground mechanics is a do or die with needing spotters. What if they added a -2 range penalty to low ground so that even with a spotter high ground still has the advantage?
What they need to do is units firing near the edge of high ground can be seen.
agreedQuote:
Originally Posted by Wankey
UHh they can be sometime, I've had thors blind fire into high ground and crush the units ont he edge several times now.
No. I love the sight mechanics in SC2. I think they're sufficient for giving high ground the advantage.
So your not bothered that a single spotter removes all the advantages of high ground? With a spotter it is like fighting on even ground? I'm not saying remove the current mechanic, but add something on top of it.
Perhaps a slight armor bonus to those on high ground?
That won't do anything against high damage dealers like tanks which are designed to counter high armor.Quote:
Originally Posted by screw_ball69
LOS will be just another thing to get used to over time, like bringing detection when attacking to work around DTs, Lurkers and such. Cliffs are just another aspect of the game people will have to get used to.
Detection is a do or die scenario too in many cases. Getting a spotter is simply another priority to have.
I'm pretty sure the concern here isn't getting used to spotting, but rather that spotting is too easy. In tier 2+, the advantage of high ground may as well not exist in most cases, as there's no reason any race should be running around without an air unit (Medivac/Obs/Overseer, at the very least).Quote:
Originally Posted by Triceron
On another matter, what happens if the unit firing on you is behind brush/smoke, do you still get to see it or is it hidden from you?
You can see anything that's shooting at you. But if something is behind brush or up a cliff and you don't have sight of the area, you can't hit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattII
Of course if you're using those units for spotting you're leaving them very vulnerable. And as soon as they're dead you're in the exact same position. And if you used your Medivacs you've kind of screwed over your infantry.Quote:
In tier 2+, the advantage of high ground may as well not exist in most cases, as there's no reason any race should be running around without an air unit (Medivac/Obs/Overseer, at the very least).
Well that seems to go contrary to everything else I've heard, where you can't see a unit that's shooting at you if it's up a cliff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
I think the sight mechanic is good, but there should be something more. I have no idea what though, because random misses are flawed, as are damage reductions. Armor increase is even more flawed than damage reduction because it affects units differently... Range reduction would make some units useless (like roaches)...
These ideas aren't necessarily bad imo, but they would need adjusting for each unit.
Something that appeals to me in terms of gameplay, is a slightly increased cooldown after shooting to higher ground. It doesn't make much sense, but seems to work in terms of gameplay imo!
In my opinion all lower terain units fireing at units at higher ground should have a -2 to their attack range.
It make sense even in a real world, and some other rts alredy had this with succes (height = range)
High ground remains a advantage as long as aircontrol is contested. ATA and ATG in General has high range, with High ground you force your opponent to expose them. It also means that there is no Terrain (dis)advantages for Airunits.
30% miss when firing from low on high ground....
I'd say -1 range at best, modern firearms are limited for more by the skill of the operator than the power of the weapon, and these things are supposed to be even more powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfecttear
It does, killing the spotter gives the player a huge advantage again. The guy on low ground cannot do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by flabortast
So you cannot actually kill units on high ground?Quote:
Originally Posted by flabortast
Roach has 3 range, if it gets -2 range it makes it melee. See my point?
If anything Blizzard should reduce cliff advantage.
Or we could have the SC1 setup renewed for low ground to high ground:
1) Spotter needed except for unts firing on you.
2) Low to high ground range unaffected, but accuracy -1 or -2 due to visual limitations. SC1 emulated this by randomly (a) showing shots hit the ground (especially for Terran on the low ground) or (b) not doing any damage unless shooter is a turret/canon/spore/air
Alternative/additional suggestion assuming this is not present already:
Give Colossi/Thor/Ultra limited high ground vision (say 2 or 3).
I have no issues with the mechanic as it is.
Honestly, I don't see what's so bad about the miss mechanic SC1 and WC3 had. I guess they wanted to make SC2 "less random" by killing off doodad and elevation protection.
As much as we can discuss this matter, I don't think they are going to change anything at this point. It seems set in stone.
It's bad because the results aren't predictable. That makes the game benefit or punish a player by no reason. The higher the unit's damage and the longer the cooldown, the more it's benefited or punished.
Take for example a Terran player with 10 Tanks. Ideally, 2 or 3 Tanks would miss. If he has good luck, maybe 1 misses, or with bad luck, maybe 5 misses. We are talking about a damage difference of 60 per Tank. The good luck player will get 60 dmg less, while the bad luck player will get 300 dmg less.
Instead of doing that random thing, you could reduce damage to high ground units by say, 25%.
But just killing the spotter is going to give the full advantage to the guy on higher ground again. That can create some micro requirements right there.
The mechanic is fine as it is. Spotters are usually gotten by mid to high game and if your still relying on the high ground to protect you at that point you have already lost.
There is also to consider that High Ground isnīt the ONLY Terrain factor anymore. There are also Brush and Watchtowers.
The point here is that these "fit" together. If we reverted highground brush would be nearly worthless.
Watchtowers are not only a source of intel but a significant tactical position.
Airunits are not a real hardcounter since to provide intel they have to surrender their main advantage: mobility.
It seems I must retract my previous comment as a bad fit. :)
My suggestion is nulled because each unit has an early-ish unit it can use to scout high ground: observer/medivac/overlord. And mobility is not sacrificed because:
a) If you pay enough attention to the area the scout is covering, you can save it and return it.
and b) It seems from the UI in the videos that patrolling is still in the game. Use it. It enables one scout to cover at least 2 locations (more with the waypoint system, assuming it yet remains, though I have yet to see it). Note that covering too many locations with too few patrollers loses value.
Focus fire the spotter down and you're back to having the advantage.