Printable View
You will be suprised how fast they fall to marauders even if they are 2 times less then roaches,It's that damn fungal growth that ruins the M&M strategy, basicly you get stim anyway so you are double screwed,But overall roaches are good and strong unit , like them ,although i enjoy playing terran the most....Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Think hes talking about in PvZ think Squid likes Toss.Quote:
Originally Posted by arthas
PSA: I play Protoss.
The strategy is specifically regarding a PvP match up, prior to the latest patch (which I clearly stated, "previous to todays godsend patch).Quote:
Originally Posted by Maul
Protoss are incapable of killing a probe scout unless they use large amounts of workers, or until two zealots come out. So you can park your scout in their base until they do so.
I'm going to explicitly write you a build order for the previous patch. You build a pylon at 9, a warpgate in 13. This is the standard protoss build.
At 15, you build another warp gate and cybernetics core
At 16, you build a assimilator. You send 2-3 probes to use it, and pull them back to minerals. Begin proxy pylon spamming.
At 17, cybernetics core is done, and build another warp gate.
At 18, you can chronoboost warp gate research. The default 30 second research time is cut to 15. You begin to move two zealots towards the enemy.
At 19, your warp gate research is done.
At 20, you now have 5 zealots inside the enemies base.
Your enemy, assuming a traditional build that does not put the defender at a economic disadvantage in deference to a RUSHER (in contrast to every other rush in this game), will be unable to have zealots until "16".
Your probe is obviously not killable. Zealots move slower then probes, in case you weren't aware. The second zealot, chronoboosted, will not come until between 17-18. That leaves ~35 seconds before your forces arrive. Now, your probe simply spams proxy pylons, no more then two at a time. Simply put, two to three zealots do not do enough DPS in order to prevent one of the two from going up. Only by pulling workers can you ensure that the probe is dead. With apt probe micro, you offset your opponent 350 minerals, while losing next to none by canceling your pylons before they are destroyed.
Their is no possible way you can kill that pylon with a traditional build without using all your probes.
Regardless of what your opponent does, even the best toss players cannot down the pylon without incurring significant losses. Unless you want to tell me how to do what is mathematically impossible.
Now, ignoring the pylon, you can match your opponents 5 zealots with five zealots of your own, if you matched 3gate, without the proxy. If this is the case, the opponent will suicide his 5 zealots into your probes. Regardless of micro, he will inevitably kill over between 8-12 of them. That is a rediculous disadvantage, literally setting you back 700 minerals. You lose.
Alternatively, you can build specifically to counter this. In order to ensure that the pylon goes down without using probes, you can get a early gate. This is the worse strategy. A 10 gate will offset you 350 minerals behind the opponent, not even doing anything. The opponent, at this point, has invested, literally, 50 minerals into this strategy.
You can choose to fight them off. In order to counter a 5 zealot rush without losing almost all your probes, you can go 4gate. Going 4gate causes your opponent to be at a 1:30 minute tech advantage over you, as well as still getting a couple probes.
Finally, you can go photon canons.. Great, you spent 450 minerals on static defense. I think I won't build a pylon, send my scout back, and fast expand.
The result is that the only plausible strategy is proxy pylon. Actually, their is another counter, and that is to proxy 2 gates outside their base, even cheesier.
here are pro-gamers in tournament finals using this strategy.
http://playxp.com/sc2/xpt/vod/view.p...cle_id=1922551
http://playxp.com/sc2/xpt/vod/view.p...cle_id=1922553
As you can clearly see, their are no other viable strategies other then mirroring 3gate-proxy pylon. These were taken from the finals of korean progaming tournaments, and are not a one time cheese. Prior to the recent patch, 99% of high level protoss games ended in the form of 3 gate proxy pylon rush. My original post was posted before the recent patch.
QFT.Quote:
Originally Posted by newcomplex
Nearly every PvP looked like this and I only saw like 3 people actually successfully defend the initial warp-ins and kill the pylons. And you could argue in those cases that they were able to do so because of errors on the part of the person doing the warp-in strategy. It was lame and broken and is now fixed.
I don't see any future for this discussion. Sure, some people will have unfounded complaints about the game but don't generalize. Also, simply asking the people concerned to silence themselves will not change anything.
Thread closed.