Small yet crucial changes SC2 must have.

These are pretty minor changes, but honestly, I see little reason why they aren't in the game already. Not having them is a huge detriment to the game, especially considering how little effort would be needed to implenet them.

#1:

Make tabbing unit groups more visible. As in make it so we'll actually know what units were currently selecting out of a large group based on the unit select icons. Think WC3, where your currently selected unit type is enlarged. SC2 needs one of these, I have no idea why it doesn't have one.

#2

Make ability effects show remaining duration when highlighted, and flash when expiring. Would be extremely useful for chrono boosting and stim packing, but almost more importantly, streamline custom games. Abilities play a huge role in such games, and it would be a needless hassle for the coders to have to custom script the UI to display such basic information, and not having it would be a needless detriment to custom games.

#3

Give stimpacks an iconic sound. One aspect crucial to starcraft is it is very watchable, a person with no knowledge could watch a game and understand all the strategies, because they are very visual. WC3's e-sports scene suffered from countless buffs and abilities that had very obscure effects that had huge impact, but non-obvious visualaudio feedback, making it a far less entertaining e-sport.

SC2 has mostly replicated this. Missle explodes, lazerz vaporize, turrets are turrets, and giant blue balls of lightning raep the contents within them. One of the most glaring exceptions to this rule are Stim packs, which in SC1, had a immediate feedback response, followed by a rapid boost in speed. In sc2, speed in general is less noticeable due to a 3d enviroment, while their is no feedback besides a vague lightning mark above your units heads. When observing games, stim packing is almost unnoticeable, which is a bad trend towards similar effects in WC3 that were game changing, yet the spectators could not admire it due to obscure/not obvious/lack of good visualaudio feedback.

#4

Fix spell descriptions so that they operate in fastest difficulty.

Rather self explanatory. Needlessly obscures game mechanics, contradicts blizzards core values of accessibility yet scalability into higher play. Makes exploring custom maps needlessly complex.

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Originally Posted by newcomplex

#3

Give stimpacks an iconic sound. One aspect crucial to starcraft is it is very watchable, a person with no knowledge could watch a game and understand all the strategies, because they are very visual. WC3's e-sports scene suffered from countless buffs and abilities that had very obscure effects that had huge impact, but non-obvious visualaudio feedback, making it a far less entertaining e-sport.

SC2 has mostly replicated this. Missle explodes, lazerz vaporize, turrets are turrets, and giant blue balls of lightning raep the contents within them. One of the most glaring exceptions to this rule are Stim packs, which in SC1, had a immediate feedback response, followed by a rapid boost in speed. In sc2, speed in general is less noticeable due to a 3d enviroment, while their is no feedback besides a vague lightning mark above your units heads. When observing games, stim packing is almost unnoticeable, which is a bad trend towards similar effects in WC3 that were game changing, yet the spectators could not admire it due to obscure/not obvious/lack of good visualaudio feedback.

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Can't say much about the other points not having a copy I can play, but I've never had a problem noticing units got stimmed.

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Originally Posted by Maul

Can't say much about the other points not having a copy I can play, but I've never had a problem noticing units got stimmed.

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I feel like it makes the game less observer friendly. Think if you didn't know what stims did. OH YEAAAh was a far better indicator that shit was going to go down then green squiggles and a shshshshs.

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Originally Posted by newcomplex

I feel like it makes the game less observer friendly. Think if you didn't know what stims did. OH YEAAAh was a far better indicator that shit was going to go down then green squiggles and a shshshshs.

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Perhaps, but if you're observing a high level game out of your own free will, you'd more than likely know what's going on anyway.

Starcraft, or any RTS, is not something that's fun to watch if you have no idea what's happening other then humans shooting aliens.

I still think there is enough visual indicating with stimming to indicate even to a beginner what is going on if they're at least familiar with the ability.

Nah, i found Starcraft 1 a lot of fun to watch when I was new to it. I find Starcraft 2 a different experience.

For instance, the "AWW YEAH, THAT'S THE STUFF" really felt like they were taking drugs, you didn't need to tell me they were using Stims, i immediately knew they were upped on heroine or something.

I think SC2 art polish is amazing, the rest, well good thing it's not coming out yet. Which begs another question, WTF have the other teams been doing all this time? 3 years and they couldn't make a good soundscape for SC2? 3 years they couldn't record some good voices? Give me a break, Samwise needs to be pushed to the top so he can shoot the sound people.

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Originally Posted by Maul

Perhaps, but if you're observing a high level game out of your own free will, you'd more than likely know what's going on anyway.

Starcraft, or any RTS, is not something that's fun to watch if you have no idea what's happening other then humans shooting aliens.

I still think there is enough visual indicating with stimming to indicate even to a beginner what is going on if they're at least familiar with the ability.

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Not really, at least in Korea. Most people observed SC before playing. Think thats a good model to have.

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Not really, at least in Korea. Most people observed SC before playing.

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Unless they could speak English, that would mean that they would have no idea what the Marine was saying. Which means they'd have to figure out what was going on from context. Which they apparently were just fine with being able to do.

I don't know about sound but the way the zerg extractor pops out is like i am watching something like a cartoon for 7 year olds....Really awfull,i mean the old models(the brighter ones) were better for Terran and Zerg and the darker one fited the protoss better.

i agree with all the little things you said for abit more eye candy, but I don't see any sounds coming any time soon

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I don't know about sound but the way the zerg extractor pops out is like i am watching something like a cartoon for 7 year olds....

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I'm fairly sure the effect for this is still a work in progress. It wasn't that long ago that the effect for an extractor in production was just an off-colored version of the regular building production effect.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Unless they could speak English, that would mean that they would have no idea what the Marine was saying. Which means they'd have to figure out what was going on from context. Which they apparently were just fine with being able to do.

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Lol they don't need to understand english. OHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH is pretty universal.

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OHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH is pretty universal.

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Universally understood as injecting stimulants. Really?

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Universally understood as injecting stimulants. Really?

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Universally understood as shits about to go down.

Little green squiggles are not.

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Universally understood as shits about to go down.

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Universal. Um, if you say so...

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Little green squiggles are not.

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It is however a language-agnostic way of saying that something is happening to those units.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

It is however a language-agnostic way of saying that something is happening to those units.

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Well, if you say so, but the numerous multicolor squiggles in WC3 were completely missed by 99% of the audience. Its one of the biggest problems with WC3 as an esport, even moreso then teh blademaster.

Over 50% of the abilities in the game require a detailed knowledge of the game to understand. In SC1, this was not a problem at all (except for very few skills like the medics blind). In SC2, its slightly more of a problem.

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Originally Posted by newcomplex

Not really, at least in Korea. Most people observed SC before playing. Think thats a good model to have.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Unless they could speak English, that would mean that they would have no idea what the Marine was saying. Which means they'd have to figure out what was going on from context. Which they apparently were just fine with being able to do.

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Maybe people did get into SC just from watching it, but until they play it themselves they're not going to completely understand everything that's going on or appreciate what the guys are doing.

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Originally Posted by newcomplex

Lol they don't need to understand english. OHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH is pretty universal.

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No it's not. See my response above.

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Originally Posted by newcomplex

These are pretty minor changes, but honestly, I see little reason why they aren't in the game already. Not having them is a huge detriment to the game, especially considering how little effort would be needed to implenet them.

#1:

Make tabbing unit groups more visible. As in make it so we'll actually know what units were currently selecting out of a large group based on the unit select icons. Think WC3, where your currently selected unit type is enlarged. SC2 needs one of these, I have no idea why it doesn't have one.

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While I support your suggestion, I don't think it's necessary. As long as you have portraits turned on, you know which unit type is currently in your subgroup.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Unless they could speak English, that would mean that they would have no idea what the Marine was saying. Which means they'd have to figure out what was going on from context. Which they apparently were just fine with being able to do.

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In South Korea, you have to pass English class to pass high school.

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Originally Posted by newcomplex

Not really, at least in Korea. Most people observed SC before playing. Think thats a good model to have.

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I'm pretty sure that's true only in South Korea (about most people observing before playing).

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Originally Posted by Maul

Starcraft, or any RTS, is not something that's fun to watch if you have no idea what's happening other then humans shooting aliens.

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I've shown plenty of people with limited exposure to SC commentated matches, which they've enjoyed.

I agree that obvious visual and audio markers play a huge role in this regard. There was some other spell/ability that I wanted them to make more obvious with sound, but now for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

Feedback litteraly lacks an animation or noticable sound. but thats surely temporary.


i think this is a good list.. waht i would add to it is a more consequent / intutive UI for queueing ordershttp://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3016

in short, you should be able to include an order to "unload" from a transport in an order queue even as the transport is on its way to pick up mentioned unit (as an earlier aprt of the same queue)

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

I've shown plenty of people with limited exposure to SC commentated matches, which they've enjoyed.

I agree that obvious visual and audio markers play a huge role in this regard. There was some other spell/ability that I wanted them to make more obvious with sound, but now for the life of me I can't remember what it was.

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Some more would be void rays and point defense drones.

(drones would be giving lasers a more visible effect and a sound, void rays should change into a deeper color at maximum charge)

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OH YEAAAh was a far better indicator that shit was going to go down then green squiggles and a shshshshs.

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I think the green indicators are amazing, BUT, I totally agree with the shshshshs noises, it's just lame and has no oomph to it.

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Universally understood as injecting stimulants. Really?

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I haven't read the entire thread... but are you arguing that "ooh yeaah" is a bad indicator simply because it's English and therefore not a universal understanding? Are you assuming that people can't just as easily identify "ooohh yeah" as an indication of drug use as a "shshsh" noise? There's no difference between the two, you merely associate the noise created with the ability used. Just because it's in English doesn't mean a thing.

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Originally Posted by Maul

Perhaps, but if you're observing a high level game out of your own free will, you'd more than likely know what's going on anyway.

Starcraft, or any RTS, is not something that's fun to watch if you have no idea what's happening other then humans shooting aliens.

I still think there is enough visual indicating with stimming to indicate even to a beginner what is going on if they're at least familiar with the ability.

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Actually, I have a friend who watched competitive Starcraft for two years before he started playing it himself.

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Originally Posted by Dalarsco

Actually, I have a friend who watched competitive Starcraft for two years before he started playing it himself.

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My co-worker ritually views replays, (SC1 and 2) yet refuses to play SC1 due to the 'ancient' UI - He tried it about the time it was released and didn't like it much (Pfff..CnC fanz, gotta luv em) - I'm sure at some point, he asked me what the "Oh Yeah!" meant exactly, along with some of the other, less obvious spells. (Plague, DS, EMP, Optic Flare, Parasite) Overall, I think its just easier to understand what you're looking at, and follow the action.

100% dead-on about Warcraft tho - for that one, you definitely have to have some pretty extensive 1st-hand knowledge of the game; maybe not so much when someone gets turned into a sheep....but many of the auras look exactly the same (War Drums and Devotion?) and there's no way to discern whats going on with spells like 'Sprit Link'

..."Uhh...what just happened?"

Most of all, once the armies clash, it is just a complete mess of spells and abilities - to the point where even seasoned guys are going,

..."Uhh...what just happened?"

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I haven't read the entire thread... but are you arguing that "ooh yeaah" is a bad indicator simply because it's English and therefore not a universal understanding? Are you assuming that people can't just as easily identify "ooohh yeah" as an indication of drug use as a "shshsh" noise? There's no difference between the two, you merely associate the noise created with the ability used. Just because it's in English doesn't mean a thing.

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Please read my statement in context. What was being said was that "ooh yeaah" is an obvious indication that someone is injecting a stimulant. I was point out that it is only obvious to an English speaker. The only reason it is thought of as "obvious" is because you've heard it for 11+ years and associate it with that concept now.

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Please read my statement in context. What was being said was that "ooh yeaah" is an obvious indication that someone is injecting a stimulant. I was point out that it is only obvious to an English speaker. The only reason it is thought of as "obvious" is because you've heard it for 11+ years and associate it with that concept now.

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Ah, I see. In that case then, yes I suppose you're right.

The units stats interface. Having to put ur mouse over to read almost everything of your units is retarded. Those stats need to be on plain sight.