Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
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To be honest, my beef with the current Changeling is that it is ultimately not very interesting to see used. There's only one real situation where you'd use it over an Overlord or Overseer; namely to scout a base in the presence of anti-air but the absence of detectors and player attention. That's awfully specific to me.
Nobody's ever paying SO much attention to their base that they will instantly kill it. And even then you need a nearby unit to kill it with. You don't ALWAYS have that.
And detectors don't detect it. So, no, situations where the changeling are useful aren't that specific. You can also get away with using the changeling. The enemy player might not even know you saw this stuff.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
so i agree with mr.peassant in that the cahngeling isnt so interesting to see used, but i think making into a possible harasser is a bit extreme..
it might be better to give it one or two survivability / scouting abilities of its own; ability to burrow (permanently? along with extending its life a bit?)
allow it to use its remaining life-force to prasasite on something for vision of that unit sc/bw style ? (be it on a new timer or indefinately but visibly and / or targetable with or without damage to the host unit)
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
What if you could upgrade the overseer so that changelings could become tier 2 units?
"That tank will support my M&M push. Wait! I didn't build any tanks!"
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
The idea isnīt that any Player would ever confuse it with one of his/her own units but that the AI wonīt react to it. Itīs insofar by mere existance a Psychological Pressure on anyone Playing against Zerg.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
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Originally Posted by
unentschieden
The idea isnīt that any Player would ever confuse it with one of his/her own units but that the AI wonīt react to it. Itīs insofar by mere existance a Psychological Pressure on anyone Playing against Zerg.
What? That makes no sense. The concept of the changeling itself implies a large role it plays involves confusing the opponent into believing it's one of their own units. Otherwise, Blizzard could have just made a changeling creature that the AI doesn't respond to instead of intentionally making it morph into a unit that replicates one of the opponent's.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
The AI kills the Changeling more often and quicker than a player usually does from what I've seen...
-Psi
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
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Originally Posted by
Jabber Wookie
What? That makes no sense. The concept of the changeling itself implies a large role it plays involves confusing the opponent into believing it's one of their own units. Otherwise, Blizzard could have just made a changeling creature that the AI doesn't respond to instead of intentionally making it morph into a unit that replicates one of the opponent's.
Well part of it is for fun. It's a shape-shifting unit, it's part of it's flavour.
In rare cases, you can mix it in with your opponents army and move it around with them.
The fact that the player's units won't automatically shoot it is good enough to make it a useful spy. The latter, the fact that you can mix it in with your opponent's marines. That's just gravy.
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The AI kills the Changeling more often and quicker than a player usually does from what I've seen...
They mean the individual unit AI, not the computer player.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
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The concept of the changeling itself implies a large role it plays involves confusing the opponent into believing it's one of their own units.
No, it doesn't. Even if a changeling looked exactly like a blob of goo to the enemy, what matters most is that it doesn't show up as a blip on the enemy's radar. Thus, they won't know to look for it, which buys it precious seconds to go scanning the base gathering intel.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
...and the reason it looks like one of their basic units is so that they can't just visually inspect the base for this "changeling creature the AI doesn't respond to." They have to spend time checking to see if it isn't just an out-of-place unit.
So yes, I agree that the changeling would still work if it looked like goo or whatever, but the fact that it morphs into an enemy unit makes it that much better than it's job. However I also agree that this has nothing to do with fooling the opponent into actually mistaking it for one of his own units. It just makes it marginally harder to spot.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
I have little doubt that Changelings work. However, the issue here is that it doesn't offer a wide variation in skill level. It's either perfectly executed or not. Perhaps it's my own limited imagination but I can't really see a scenario where a viewer or commentator might go "Wow, now that's an inspired/awesome use of the Changeling."
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
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Originally Posted by
mr. peasant
I can't really see a scenario where a viewer or commentator might go "Wow, now that's an inspired/awesome use of the Changeling."
At average or high-normal levels of play I think you are probably exactly right. I expect that players will just have to deal with the fact that the Zerg will probably know what you are building, or else Changeling-hunting will just become standard part of gameplay. (it's also possible that mid-level players will have to much else to do to bother with Changeling at all...time will tell)
However, at very high pro-levels, any player who doesn't want his opponent to know what he has will have the APM to remove any and all changelings. So in that scenario, a player who can keep his opponent busy with attacks etc. in order to sneak in a changeling, well, that will be impressive because it'll be so unusual. Consider it similar to moments in pro-games when someone uses worker drills or something similar to sneak a scout past a wall-in.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
It's a cool idea for an HotS or LotV.
Not for WoL though.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
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...and the reason it looks like one of their basic units is so that they can't just visually inspect the base for this "changeling creature the AI doesn't respond to." They have to spend time checking to see if it isn't just an out-of-place unit.
Yeah, exactly. I've seen a zealot running around my base, and taken a second or two to go 'wait, is that one of mine or...? No. Must be a changeling.' Then it's taken me a second to go and grab a unit that can kill it. Then it's taken me a second to actually kill it. Buying the changeling precious spying time.
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So yes, I agree that the changeling would still work if it looked like goo or whatever, but the fact that it morphs into an enemy unit makes it that much better than it's job. However I also agree that this has nothing to do with fooling the opponent into actually mistaking it for one of his own units. It just makes it marginally harder to spot.
I actually have seen islandsnake mix in a changeling with an enemy army of marines, though. So it IS possible. And that's where the specatorship aspect will come in. When somebody successfully mixes in a changeling with the enemy army.
Re: Should Changelings Morph Into Something Else?
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Originally Posted by
Nicol Bolas
No, it doesn't. Even if a changeling looked exactly like a blob of goo to the enemy, what matters most is that it doesn't show up as a blip on the enemy's radar. Thus, they won't know to look for it, which buys it precious seconds to go scanning the base gathering intel.
I'm not arguing if it morphing effectively fools the opponent into believing it's one of their units or not, I'm just pointing out that Blizzard would not have made it morph into one of the opponent's units if that wasn't their intention. If the ONLY thing that matters is it not showing up as a blip on the enemy's radar, then why not just make it a blob of goo?
If you're arguing that they might as well because that is the only useful role it plays then that's fine; however, that doesn't change the fact that Blizzard made it morph because THEY intended for it to confuse the opponent into believing it's one of their own units. I highly doubt they did it just because it looks cool.
And believe me, while higher level players may easily spot one, I bet you could effectively use a changeling for quite some time against lower level players primarily because it DOES morph into one of their own units and confuse them.
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However I also agree that this has nothing to do with fooling the opponent into actually mistaking it for one of his own units. It just makes it marginally harder to spot.
It makes it marginally harder to spot because it temporarily fools the opponent into actually mistaking it for one of their own units. Seriously, how is no one getting this? There is nothing about it that would make it hard to spot EXCEPT the fact that it looks LIKE ONE OF THEIR UNITS!!
