My Thoughts as a Beta Tester for 2 Weeks -_-

To many returning units OR units that are to close to the orignial with new skins are in SC 2
(hello Arbitor errm I mean mothership) to make it what it should. This game is starting to feel like the
original way to soon. I feel as though when the design process took place, when you removed a unit, you just thought of another to fill its exact same roll on the tech tree or simply didnt remove a unit.

I understand Starcraft was a masterpiece but alot of the new features that were expected to be in the beta ( BC's with new upgradable abilities ) corruptors that infested a dead target to creat air "turrets" and alot of other features are gone. Replaced with very bland ( but somewhat balanced counterparts) . I understand balance is key for this game but we also cannot forget that its been 5 years in development and 10+ years since the original. Sometimes I feel like abilities and spells were put into a hat and picked out for each race and juggled around.

For example the corruptor an ANTI AIR ONLY unit now has an abilitie very similar in function to the web ability of the corsair also ATA only . I might be nitpicking and the ability may serve a more useful function but also has been done 10 years ago.


Also, build orders. If you go to any website and look at the protoss tech tree and compare it to SC 1 you will find minimal changes. A forge still allows for cannons( cannons do the same damage from the original by the way). A cybercore allows for Stalkers( the dragoon equavalent which also required a cybercore) . O hey build a fleet beacon and get carriers.... honestly I played this game before..... 10 years ago.


Now to be fair, SC 2 has alot of really cool things. Warp in is very cool. The gfx's are top notch and allow users to enjoy the game on low end machines. The user interface has improved and the game DOES look and feel like Starcraft. There are some new strategys , Nydus network and warpin really do add to the intesity of any game.


Battle.net , as it is right now Is a ghost town. With no Chat Channels and custom games WITHOUT CUSTOM NAMES the whole experience feels very bland and stagnent. Althought people keep saying Chat lobbys will be added in the future. Remember blizzard, people need to communicate first in order to build friendships and the best way to do that are public and private chat rooms (clan channels etc).


I know this is Beta and blizzard is the best. But I hope the path they take to balance doesnt lend itself to making a carbon copy of SC 1. You can do it blizzard I know you can. Make SC 2 Great :).


Comments? :P

Well, I don't have a key, but I'll post my thoughts anyway.

First off, it is a sequel, and in order to capture the original Starcraft feeling, I think it is necessary to keep the majority of the original units. I see where you're coming from when you say it could feel like the original game pretty quick. However, the point of a sequel is to bring back characters, units and other aspects of the game that help give Starcraft its unique identity. As far as build orders, there are more differences than I anticipated. I'm fine with Cannons originating from the Forge, doesn't make that much of a difference, it's just carrying over from the original game.

I would expect Blizzard to really start stretching Bnet's capabilities within the next two weeks. They'll have to invite a lot more players if they truly want to see whether or not it can handle thousands of people on at once.

Regardless of the multiplayer, I'm still really looking forward to the single player. Custom games and playing coop vs AI with friends will always be enjoyable.

That is just my opinion.

Been playing this fairly though out the Beta period. Sorry if my post isn't as thought out as you might expect it to be;

I am having a blast with the beta. The gameplay is real tight and the balance is certainly there. There are some slightly powerful strategies but nothing has stood out thus far (Reapers of the past).

As for Bnet features, they simply don't want to introduce that yet because they want players to really dig into Multiplayer balance, the core and heart of the game. Chat and clan support isn't as vital to the success of the game as much as balance is. Plus, those features are guaranteed to come in full force so theres not too much reason to worry about them in the first place.

I'm not sure what to say, I love that it feels like Starcraft. Colossi do an amazing job to replace the Reaver while doing it in a completely different manner (Linear AoE rather than Radial.)

One thing I will agree with you 100% on is the juggling of abilities between races. Mind Control to the Zerg? Mothership is hardly worth the effort in terms of abilities.

In the end, I think I'm 90% satisfied, as in I would buy this beta if it was the full game (with the other features.)

That final 10% would be the jumble of racial abilities :P

I personally feel that there's enough newness in SC2 to shake up the experience quite a bit.

The very mechanics of SC2 already lend themselves to be pretty different from SC1. In particular, there are a lot of very very hard counters in SC2. In Brood War, Lurkers are good against Marines, but Marines are also good against Lurkers, with micro. The question of who wins depends a lot on battlefield micro. In SC2, I feel that there's more emphasis on building the correct units to counter the enemy's, and so it goes back-and-forth.

I think that this system will actually make it easier to add new units into the game (when it comes time for an expansion), but makes actual battlefield micro less rewarding for the player since a fight's outcome seemingly hinges more on raw unit composition and numbers.

I find this ironic since there was so much fuss about reduced macro in SC2 meaning players will use their APM for micro, but SC2 is still very much a macro-oriented game. You can micro Roaches against Immortals all you want - you're not going to be nearly as rewarded as a pro who micros Marines against Lurkers.

The counter system isn't quite as hard as something like Age of Empires though, and I still believe that it's very 'StarCraft-ish' in feeling, but with a different flavour. I'm not saying it's bad - in fact, I'm having a lot of fun right now - but it's still too early to come to a proper conclusion.

Although I may come off as slightly negative of the changes in SC2, I'm actually not :p. Given as daunting a task as creating a straight sequel to SC2, I think the game turned out marvelously (on first impression). Like I said, we still need a lot more time to see if this game can continue to be interesting or if it will stagnate (although hopefully not the latter, especially with 2 expansions coming).

I highly doubt this game is going to grow stagnant simply by seeing the number of games people have played on the ladders from this Beta alone. It can only get better from here on out.

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Originally Posted by Dragoonx

I highly doubt this game is going to grow stagnant simply by seeing the number of games people have played on the ladders from this Beta alone. It can only get better from here on out.

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If you read what I said again, you'll see that I don't say that the gameplay is going to be stagnant based on my Beta impressions :).

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Originally Posted by GRUNT

If you read what I said again, you'll see that I don't say that the gameplay is going to be stagnant based on my Beta impressions :).

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I'm not saying you did. I agree with you whole heartedly. I was merely reinforcing the thought that this is too great to die so young :P

There are a lot of differences from BW. You already mentioned the Nydus Worm and Warp-in, there are also Immortals, Void Rays, Blink, Charge, cliff-jumping units, Zergs don't have free detection anymore, the damage system is much more flexible, there are Banshees, and Vikings, and Reapers, and Marauders. Quite some changes for a sequel.

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I feel as though when the design process took place, when you removed a unit, you just thought of another to fill its exact same roll on the tech tree or simply didnt remove a unit.

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You might notice that the tech trees are virtually identical in SC2 and SC1. This was clearly a very deliberate design choice made by the SC developers.

Why? I have no idea, to be honest. Maybe they thought it'd be easier that way. Changing the tech tree changes a lot about a race. Once you start going down that road, your prior experience goes out the window. And without prior experience to draw on, you have to do a lot of testing to make sure it works.

Personally, I agree that Blizzard was perhaps more conservative than they needed to be. I would have started from a near blank slate, with everything, everything being up for debate. Including basic things like the core resourcing model. If they had started from that, I think there'd be a lot less StarCraftitus around, because it would be very much a different game.

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For example the corruptor an ANTI AIR ONLY unit now has an abilitie very similar in function to the web ability of the corsair also ATA only . I might be nitpicking and the ability may serve a more useful function but also has been done 10 years ago.

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I'm pretty sure you're nitpicking. Corruption can stop an army from being reinforced. D-Web can't do that. And of course, D-Web is cased on an area, not a building.

BTW, has anyone verified that Corruption on Pylons shuts off the radius of Psi?

@ Nicol Bolas
If you're going to start from a blank slate you may as well change the IP while you're at it.

We DON'T want another CnC4, they seem to have thrown everything CnC out of the window and made DoTA with mcvs...

Speaking about MC on zerg, the "brain tentacle" animation for it just makes it look great and actually fitting =p
Maybe that evolution Kerrigan was talking about was hunting down all dark archons and infesting them into corruptors. heh.

While I agree with your sentiment, in practice I prefer a sequel to a random game in a starcraft skin.

Either way, you might get your wish, Blizz did say they were willing to even remove units , even at this late point..

Speaking on tech trees, i personally like the "familiar but different" style, DTs position change, the normalisation of detection etc. Where a seemingly small surface change, completely changes the metagame.

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If you're going to start from a blank slate you may as well change the IP while you're at it.

We DON'T want another CnC4, they seem to have thrown everything CnC out of the window and made DoTA with mcvs...

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Civilization games have always been willing to reexamine and replace mechanics, even pretty core ones. And yet, they're all Civ games.

There's nothing to fear from requiring every mechanic to justify itself and potentially be replaced if something better is available. As long as you create the gameplay that you want, how you do so is pretty much unimportant.

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Either way, you might get your wish, Blizz did say they were willing to even remove units , even at this late point..

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Yeah, they say that. But that doesn't mean they actually are. And there are a lot of good reasons not to.

After two weeks, I have realized how bad my macro really is, and how rusty I am at this game.

I agree with Nicol that a bottom up approach of core game mechanics from the start would have been best.

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Either way, you might get your wish, Blizz did say they were willing to even remove units , even at this late point..

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C'mon, Blizzard wont even remove the mothership. Reminds me of the Simpson episode where Homer is chasing after the grilled pig and its rolling through streets and into streams and Homer is shouting "Its still good! Its still good!"

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

BTW, has anyone verified that Corruption on Pylons shuts off the radius of Psi?

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I tried this, and the Pylon still functions normally.

However, you can cast Corruption on a Terran building under construction to halt its construction (haven't tried with Protoss or Zerg).

Corruption also halts Larvae production when cast on a Zerg Hatchery/Lair/Hive.

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Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid

After two weeks, I have realized how bad my macro really is, and how rusty I am at this game.

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Well, you can't really be rusty at SC2, since you've only been playing for 2 weeks :p. Keep at it, and maybe you'll do better without having to worry about people watching you on your stream and needing to talk/play at the same time :].

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ-nP98VI5g

Mothership is justified =p

That aside...big arbiters, required? Who knows.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

C'mon, Blizzard wont even remove the mothership. Reminds me of the Simpson episode where Homer is chasing after the grilled pig and its rolling through streets and into streams and Homer is shouting "Its still good! Its still good!"

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Lawl! I hope you're right! Yet I do hope they find a way for it to be balanced and worthwhile or the Arbitrer will make a comeback and Mothership will be Single Player campaign only.

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Originally Posted by emikochan

While I agree with your sentiment, in practice I prefer a sequel to a random game in a starcraft skin.

Either way, you might get your wish, Blizz did say they were willing to even remove units , even at this late point..

Speaking on tech trees, i personally like the "familiar but different" style, DTs position change, the normalisation of detection etc. Where a seemingly small surface change, completely changes the metagame.

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Good points. I also prefer the changes not to be too stressful. This is StarCraft 2 not 3 or as you said another CnC4 whatever it is.