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I play random and somehow end up playing terran and protoss more than Zerg.
So when I get around to Zerg, the only real strategy I know is "mass roaches." I have tried banelings exactly twice and they did absolutely nothing for me.
Could somebody please help me with this? What are Banelings good for? They seem to be useless against marines/marauders and against zealots/stalkers.
They're good at softening up zealots and they absolutely massacre marines.
They're mainly good in the early game for smashing open a player who's walled-in. They deal A LOT of damage to buildings.
Awesome against zealots and marine. If he has an MnM army of mostly marauders, don't bother with them.
Good to know:
-they have a pretty decent sized AoE explosion
-you need more than a handful to really see their impact, especially against zealots
-their AI is smart enough that you won't lose all of them on one unit (unless that unit can actually take a bunch of exposions without dying) by attack-moving, but micro is still quite advatageous obviously
as a terran player, i know they absolutely massacre my marines. but yeah, you do need a decent number of them for them to be effective.
The guys above are right - their primary purpose in life is to kill Marines, Zealots, Zerglings, and Hydralisks. They're really not very cost-effective against just about everything else, even buildings, I feel :p.
The problem is that most people (myself included) don't have the speed to use Banelings to their full potential.
With a Terran player constantly using Energy for Mules, he may not really use Scan when pushing out, and an infantry ball (mainly Marines) may come at you before he gets Ravens. You could burrow Banelings once you get Lair tech, essentially turning them into mines and circumventing the problem of getting shot at when trying to get close enough to explode. However, this requires a fair amount of skill, as you have to pay close attention to the minimap and detonate them right when the marines are walking on top of them.
For the rest of us, we usually have to rely on sufficient numbers + some Zergling fodder to ensure that the Banelings hit home.
I suppose you could drop them into an enemy's mineral lines with an Overlord - I haven't tried that myself, yet :p.
There amazing - a m a z i n g - vs terran infantry, and I dont use them much vs toss but they'd be decent vs zealots.
There somewhat tricky to use! but they are better than I thought they'd be
Alot of times the marines just run into them or try to escape and end up all dying....burrow makes them even better on some maps you can burrow them at there choke points leaving there base and when they move out with there push they all get destoryed, if they start to get smart of this just burrow them on the path to ure base.
Remember that the speed upgrade turns them into death-balls litterly and they work perfectly with speed-lings once they have the speed upgrade. They can be heavy on gas if you start spamming them(its addicting) so be sure not to over spend you only need a handful mixed in to have a good effect on the battle.
Also if you really want to break a terran just bring a few and that wallin is gone in a flash.
Thanks guys, you also answered my second question: how to deal with walled-in terrans as Zerg. I can do it fine as Protoss (6 Zs do wonders against supply depots) and as terrans I just wall in myself, but Zerg I couldn't quite get the hang of.
I'll have to remember to use them my next ZvT!
I'm not sure using banelings are really cost efficient to bust a wall, but I guess you could try that.
Personally, I expand and get fast hydra + nydus when that happens. I feel it's just safer.
That being said, I'm sure that a huge zergling attack with banelings to bust the front could work wonders.
busting a wall isnt really about being cost effective, its about being able to bust it to begin with - while having troops left, and banes is a way to do that without standing around & letting the enemy take lots of free shots. nydus is great, but thats higher tech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyvik
Are you having scouting problems? Or problems just killing them with a wallin?
If its the scouting thats a issue yeah it can be hard - the first thing I would suggest is hopefully get some intel on that first overlord, see if theres more than one rax or more than one gas or maybe a tech lab but try not to let it die - some people like to drone scout as well me? not so much. One thing I always always do for more than one reason is morph a overseer asap (usally after hydra den) and drop a changeling in there base, its amazing how good thing things are and as a bonus you keep that overseer alive for possible nydus worm usage later. Also keep a ling outside there choke and a overlord behind there natural expo just in vision of the minerals so you can see when mining begins.
If its a issue of killing them outright I think instead of saying "how can I kill that wall in" say how can I use the fact that there turtled in there base to my advantage, I usually don't bust the terran until i have a fully saturated second base and a ton of hydras, but honestly the best bet is try to deny that expo which they cant take while walled in. Another thing to think of is if you go to bust them with say a roach rush and you get shot by a tank - retreat this means they went heavy tech and you can use that to your advantage since they more than likely wont be pushing until they secure that natural expo. And with tech comes less of a army you might be able to nydus there base easily if they relying on a cliff + tanks to stop you from killing them.
Also if there's a wall-in(or even if there's not really) send 1 ling to every single tower on the map and overlords to any blind Air pathways to ure base, if you have good map presence its impossible to be surprised by a drop or something with good unit placement - the wall-in keeps them safe but it also keeps them off the map. With something as simple as 3 lings on a map like desert oasis you can be 100% protected from drops and be able to react to either attack path easily. Just a small note about that map dont disregard taking the islands instead of a 3rd elsewhere, nydus worms make claiming islands so easy you can even have 1 queen handle ure main and both island bases.
Of course it is. If you bust the wall but don't finish him what's the point? And to be able to finish him: you need to have the immediate ressources to make your army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
If you spend too many ressources to bust his wall, and don't manage to kill him (it's not because he's walling that he isn't producing an army behind that wall, which is the beauty of T right now), you're hurting yourself because his wall served it's purpose: it tipped the scales of a battle to his side.
All I'm saying is that if you're going to try to bust his wall, you'd better be confident you can kill him in that go, or at least cripple him way more than you crippled yourself to go for that timing break.
Four Banelings costs 100 gas and 200 minerals. With that, you can deal 240 damage to a building; that's enough to weaken Supply Depots enough for your Zerglings to get in and start killing stuff.
Is 200/100 cheap enough? I think it is.
30hp goes down fast, especially when trying to go up a ramp in a line. Theorycraft sucks.
But yeah, if you get 100% efficiency, obviously 200/100 is cheap enough, but it's 200/100 wasted if he's got an MnM army waiting at the top and you have to back off. I'm not saying you shouldn't attack, I'm saying you should gather intel before attacking, and busting a wall quickly isn't always the best course of action because he could be making units that will own yours (like hellions).
You'd be surprised how far a Baneling can get, even with multiple Marines shooting them. And the blast radius is surprisingly large; they don't have to connect to the building to do their building damage to it.Quote:
30hp goes down fast, especially when trying to go up a ramp in a line.
Plus, you can always send one Zergling in front as a sacrifice to absorb damage.