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Roaches get +2 from the ranged attack upgrade!? Wow, people weren't kidding when they said there'd be undocumented changes.
This is even more incentive to get the +1 ground missile attack upgrade as Zerg when transitioning to a Hydra/Roach build midgame. The +1 carapace only seems to matter in Ling vs Zealot fights, but that wouldn't be as important as the missile attack since you'd probably be getting Roaches instead of lings in the first place.
Yeah, but that Change really doesn't make any sense at all. After all, people were whining about Roaches that they are too strong, good damage, durable etc. Why would they buff them in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT
Get rid of recall. It's been done before. The MShip is too slow to really use it effectively on offense. Let Protoss players focus on warp-in and the warp prism as their means of mass transit.
They can come up with something better than that.
o High Templar
+ Phase Shift: This ability has been removed from the game.
+ New ability: Feedback - Drains all energy from the target unit and causes damage equal to the amount of energy drained.
mmm... maybe Phase Shift wasn't too useful, but what's Feedback next to Psi Storm? Ok, you can deal a maximum 200 to 250 dmg to any unit that is an energy user, and keep it from using spells, if it has survived, however, for spellcasters, most of the time they're going to have middle amounts of energy, that means that Psi Storm is likely to deal around the same damage, if not more. So it's only useful to stop spellcasters that would survive one Psi Storm. This will completely make the Mothership just a big unit, however.
o Mothership
+ Vortex: The energy cost of this ability has increased from 75 to 100.
+ Vortex: The target radius of this ability has decreased from 3.0 to 2.5.
+ Temporal Rift: This ability has been removed from the game.
+ Wormhole Transit: This ability has been removed from the game.
+ New ability: Mass Recall - Teleports all of the player's units in the target area to the Mothership.
Uhhmm... Arbiter anyone? :p
A pity about Wormhole Transit, isn't the unit too slow, or it has been made faster? Anyways, being unique it was an interesting spell to keep the unit alive.
I actually thinked that the Protoss needed some way to move their already-produced units, in addition to using Warp Prisms in "ship mode". Protoss units are damn big, and very few of them fit per transport. It's very hard to do a mass drop as Toss, unless the transports cost jack. On the other hand, Gateway units can be warped-in, Colossus can climb cliffs, and already-produced Stalkers can Blink there, so there's to be seen if that really adds much.
o Nexus
+ Chrono Boost can no longer target allies.
That was too damn powerfull.
* ZERG
o Infestor
+ Neural Parasite: Functionality changed - The Infestor now channels this spell, which lasts 10 seconds or until the Infestor is destroyed. You can now target all units with this ability.
Well, we now are going to see what the unit can do.
+ Terran Infestation: The ability’s energy cost has reduced from 50 to 25 and Infested Terrans now spawn 1 at a time.
Wait... it was into the game already, or they just forgot to mention they added it?
They added it to the game with this patch. I'm guessing they've been having patch notes out for alpha builds, though. So this is based off of when the Infestor had the ability.Quote:
Wait... it was into the game already, or they just forgot to mention they added it?
Phase shift had a lot of potential. I think it was mostly that nobody even knew it was there. And it has the same problem as feedback: it's competing with Psi Storm. But the power that ability would have had against a few Thors, Immortals, Colossi, Ultralisks... Brood Lords... any spellcaster.Quote:
mmm... maybe Phase Shift wasn't too useful, but what's Feedback next to Psi Storm?
Well, Phase-shifting the big units would be really useful in a fight, but i don't know if it isn't better to soften them with Psi Storm. How much did the ability last? Could the units move while Phase-shifted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
I can't call a channeled Neural Parasite "good".Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Archon
I just know I hate such abilities. I thought Phase Shift was cooler. When you drain a spellcaster's energy to 0, assuming they even survive, they become useless for more than 8 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
How do you face the computer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser
Well, 80 damage to an Ultralisk or removing it from the fight for 8 seconds. I think both are potentially useful. Though theoretically phase shift isn't all that great against zerg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
The one time I used it to moderately good effect was in a game where I was PvPing. I decided to go mass stalkers and my opponent went zealots/Immortals. I had blink, so my stalkers could handle the chargelots all right. But I also had a few High Templar. I think at the time I didn't have psi storm researched yet so I used phase shift on his immortals.
I didn't win the fight, but that doesn't mean the strategy wasn't sound. I lost because I got outmacroed, I didn't have nearly enough stalkers (and I had the resources for them too). But I think I held out much longer against that army than I would have had the Immortals been able to join the fray. That'd work on colossi too pretty well. Or Carriers. Or Void Rays.
So it's definitely at least useful in PvP. And I think there's some definite use for it in PvT as well. With Thors and Battlecruisers. That's pretty limited, but it's still a USE. And I don't think it prevented spellcasting, but if it did that'd be an even further use for the ability.
8 seconds.Quote:
How much did the ability last?
I think so. But the preferred targets for the spell can't move very quickly anyway. I still don't know if it stopped spellcasting, though.Quote:
Could the units move while Phase-shifted?
Hit +AI in the 'create custom game' page.Quote:
How do you face the computer?
I haven't really had enough time to test it out yet. But thus far while it's definitely better than Terran infestation... it's... very... mediocre. The range on the Infestor's abilities is just too short or something. I don't think they should be able to cast while burrowed, but having such a short casting range AND being a ground-based spellcaster amongst a bunch of massable units that take up a HUGE amount of space makes it tricky to use.Quote:
I can't call a channeled Neural Parasite "good".
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
Hey what's the meaning of this!
I wonder what the heck is going on with the poor Mothership. I mean this changes don't seem to improve but to go worse!Quote:
Colossus
* The building pathing radius for this unit has decreased from .75 to .5625.
That's kind of the idea. The Mothership was a bit too strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josue
Though I think CHANGING her like this was just silly.
I am looking forward mainly to the single player portion of the game, so I am not so bothered with the multiplayer, but it seems to me that the final SC2 beta build could look pretty much the same like Brood War - the new units are only slightly modified versions of the canceled ones or they represent only chaotic mix of veteran Brood War units abilities.
That disappoints me a little. I think Blizzard did a mistake with the decision to cancel old units with the introduction of the new ones. I was hoping for the game with all the veteran Brood War units in place and the introduction of four to five new ones per faction - like it seems will be the case in single player portion of SC2.
I think it is not so important if some units are less useful in MP than others. I think it should be much more important if the game can have more variety and more opportunities to change or to surprise. The same builds of units every game seem very boring to me - like every Protoss player has to mass Stalkers. I think it would be better and more exciting if there were more units per faction in SC2 multiplayer.
Does anyone agree with me or are you all perfectly satisfied with the direction Blizzard is going for multiplayer?
It's always annoyed me how Blizzard keeps ditching anything remotely new in favor of rehashed abilities. Like I said it's as if they're afraid to innovate and unwilling to balance new ideas, and simply resorting to tried and true abilities out of desperation. It's very disappointing to see them doing this after so much time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Romla
Well I for one am glad that the wormhole transit ability is gone. The mothership is already the sort of thing that can destroy you all by it's self. The last thing it needs is the ability to escape from battle anytime it starts taking moderate damage. I say bring back the Independence Day style laser beam!
________
Homemade vaporizer pipe
I would put wormhole transit back. I don't mind the rest of the changes.
From what Ive seen, I think Void Rays are gonna get changed at one point. They should have a stronger base attack and less armor bonus. Nexus sniping is not my idea of a good time.
derp It's not a balance patch, just a patch to try different things.
Stop crying. This isn't going to be the last patch by a long shot and the game isn't suddenly going to be released like this next week.
Once they see that people don't like some of these changes, they'll probably revert, or try another set of skills.
Just a few points I'd consider important, but which aren't up in the first post:
-Battlecruiser is Yamato only now, just like it was in SC1.
-Sentry now has some ability called Guardian Shield (reduces incoming damage by 2).
-Viking's +10 vs. massive bonus is now +4 vs. armoured.
-Queen's transfusion now heals 125 hp for 50 energy.
-Corruptor does +8 vs. Massive, rather than +8 vs. armoured.
-Lurker has been dropped.
-Missile Turret, Sensor Tower and Supply depot now apparently no longer have Salvage.
Just because whiners are whining about something doesn't mean they're right.Quote:
Yeah, but that Change really doesn't make any sense at all. After all, people were whining about Roaches that they are too strong, good damage, durable etc. Why would they buff them in the first place?
These were all things that were in the beta from the start.Quote:
-Battlecruiser is Yamato only now, just like it was in SC1.
-Sentry now has some ability called Guardian Shield (reduces incoming damage by 2).
-Viking's +10 vs. massive bonus is now +4 vs. armoured.
-Queen's transfusion now heals 125 hp for 50 energy.
-Corruptor does +8 vs. Massive, rather than +8 vs. armoured.
-Lurker has been dropped.
-Missile Turret, Sensor Tower and Supply depot now apparently no longer have Salvage.
Pay attention.
Those changes are weeks old. Where the hell have you been guy?Quote:
Originally Posted by MattII
- Reaper
The change and hype seems a bit overrated since there are good counters to them and if someone is loosing to them repeatedly he is simply not prepared and needs to learn.
- Feedback
Sadly this looks like a Protoss version of EMP - useful against Ravens and Ghosts (kinda like a Western Gunfight ... whoever shoots first wins). IMO the three races should be DIFFERENT instead of getting the same power ... just with a different flavour. That is one of the typical failings in MMORPG-design / balance attempts IMO.
- Mothership
I think its a bit overreacting to exchange the Teleport with Summoning. A better change might be reducing the movement speed of the massive ship and keeping the "Teleport to Protoss building". This way you can keep the "escape teleport" and make the ship less effective while moving in a fight.
Thinking about it, I don't agree with Feedback on the HT. It's already got one damage spell, and it shouldn't have a direct counter to the Terran's direct counter to HT's - Ghosts.
So, what Rabiator said.
the mothership is new arbiter... giant arbiter.
The colossus is now smaller (but looks the same size). You could do weird stuff like that in Warcraft III as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josue
Until the map editor comes out, though, we'll have hardly any idea what that means.
I really do wish it could get back some of the neat stuff they showed back when. The black hole and planet cracker (you know, where white people come from) were neat looking.
Notes for the new patch today are up.
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2785
Not all of us got beta keys you know. I live in NZ, we aren't exactly the first people to get the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
You have access to the internet don't you? You should easily be able to access said info.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattII
-----
wow you quoted me quite long ago, I wish the forums had a "who quoted me" query so I would have know before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
thanks for the info... I wonder who else quoted me and I was unaware...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimera757
So, it's just internal size and model's still the same size or something like that?
Sorry, I never used WC3 editor only staredit.
Well...that was just a matter of time, I guess. :)Quote:
Chrono Boost can no longer target allies
With Smartcast, thats going to be brutal on enemy spellcasters - Raven and Infestor in particularQuote:
So I'm just curious. What do you guys like about Feedback being on the High Templar?
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