Trends i've noticed that could use changes

Infestors are not being used at all. Seriously needs spell changes.

Queen creep tumor should probably be changed. Currently, zerg has two units that just create more creep. The queen and the overlord. Could someone also confirm if sunkens also create creep as well?

No one uses the High Templar phase shift. Not saying it's bad. But should consider making it more interesting considering it's in direct competition with psi storm.

According to beta forums, people feel that roaches are OP. Even if they aren't OP, they've become units that almost all zerg players end up having to tech to for early to mid-game survival. It's a tank that deals good damage and only costs 1 food.

Raven spells could probably use some nerfing. Two attack spells and a defense spell? It's like having a high templar that can fly and cast psi storm while defending itself from most projectiles. And unlike irradiate from SC1, it's difficult to micro units away to minimize the damage they take, seeing as how it's hard to know which unit is targeted, and comes down pretty quickly.

Reapers auto-cast D8 Charges on buildings? =\

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Originally Posted by moosh

Queen creep tumor should probably be changed. Currently, zerg has two units that just create more creep. The queen and the overlord. Could someone also confirm if sunkens also create creep as well?

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Overlords only make temporary creep, and sunkens do not make creep.

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Reapers auto-cast D8 Charges on buildings? =\

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It's like the ultralisk head attack. It's a different graphic that does different damage. It's quite powerful; I think Blizzard looked at the orc raider and went "I like!"

Nydus Worms also create creep where you build them, FYI.

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Originally Posted by moosh

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No one uses the High Templar phase shift. Not saying it's bad. But should consider making it more interesting considering it's in direct competition with psi storm.



Reapers auto-cast D8 Charges on buildings? =\

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Is Phase Shift still in the game?

Last time I looked at templar archives, there was only 2 icons (or did I miss one?) - one for Psi Storm and the other looked like Khaydarin Amulet for energy; can someone confirm this plz?


In response to D8, the answer is Yes and the ability is f*ucking retarded OP as 4-5 reapers can kill a nex/cc/hatch in like 14-16 seconds, and there is absolutely no way to tell even with scouting the Terran base that theyre coming. Def needs nerfing - maybe cutting that 45 damage in 1/2?

High templar get Phase Shift automatically.

I feel like in general the caster abilities are fairly underwhelming.

Protoss casters have two very cool abilities - Force Field and Psi Storm. The mothership has solid abilities but players rarely get a chance to make one. Phase Shift and that anti-range aura are not that interesting (or useful) and don't provide much competition for the alternate skill. High Templars are once again just psi-stormers or half an archon.

Ghosts pretty much call down nukes...I'm not sure if they have EMP or lockdown at all anymore, but I haven't seen anybody use abilities with the ghost other than nuclear strike. I'm also disappointed that although ghosts were supposedly going to be cheaper and more common in SC2, they are actually now far more expensive and at least as rare as they were in SC1.

Ravens are kind of cool, but I think the turrets are more than a little gimmicky, and I don't know if they totally nerfed hunter-seeker or something, but nobody seems to use that skill. I preferred the science vessel's abilities because they were more...sciency.

Infestors don't seem very well thought out to me at all. I don't think the developers have really decided how they want them to be used yet (which is evident from the fact that they've changed so much since they were introducted). Queens are useful, but since they just sit in the base they can't really be a functioning part of your army.

Right now the casters are fairly disappointing. I compare them to the casters from WC3 (I thought they were done well in WC3) and find them wanting.

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Phase Shift and that anti-range aura are not that interesting (or useful) and don't provide much competition for the alternate skill.

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I can't say anything about Phase Shift, but you've obviously never used Guardian Aura. That is a powerful, and highly annoying, ability.

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Ghosts pretty much call down nukes...I'm not sure if they have EMP or lockdown at all anymore, but I haven't seen anybody use abilities with the ghost other than nuclear strike.

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You've clearly not played the game as Protoss. EMP basically screws up their entire ground army.

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Originally Posted by moosh

Infestors are not being used at all. Seriously needs spell changes.

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Agreed for the most part. Or some tweaks to it's existing spells at the very least.

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Queen creep tumor should probably be changed. Currently, zerg has two units that just create more creep. The queen and the overlord. Could someone also confirm if sunkens also create creep as well?

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Uh... they work completely differently. Queen spawn a permanent creep tumour that spreads creep, but must also be cast on creep. Overlord generates creep anywhere, but it must remain stationary while doing so or the creep will dissipate.

And spine crawlers most certainly do NOT spread creep.

Creep tumor is fine.

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No one uses the High Templar phase shift. Not saying it's bad. But should consider making it more interesting considering it's in direct competition with psi storm.

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Nobody knows it's there. Nobody's even BOTHERED to try it as far as I've seen. It's the perfect alternative to Psi Storm anyway. Works on big units, is instantaneous and can't be dodged, etc. etc.

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According to beta forums, people feel that roaches are OP. Even if they aren't OP, they've become units that almost all zerg players end up having to tech to for early to mid-game survival. It's a tank that deals good damage and only costs 1 food.

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Uh, sure. Though they're not all that great against terran. Marauders mess them up pretty badly. So do stalkers, but less-so. A roach rush is pretty hard to counter as Zerg as well.

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Raven spells could probably use some nerfing. Two attack spells and a defense spell? It's like having a high templar that can fly and cast psi storm while defending itself from most projectiles. And unlike irradiate from SC1, it's difficult to micro units away to minimize the damage they take, seeing as how it's hard to know which unit is targeted, and comes down pretty quickly.

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I dunno if they could use nerfing, but I still really don't like Hunter-Seeker Missile. I think auto-turret and defensive drone are fine, though. Defensive drone is limited to certain units and won't protect the Raven from mass units. It's mostly useful against static defenses.

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I'm also disappointed that although ghosts were supposedly going to be cheaper and more common in SC2, they are actually now far more expensive and at least as rare as they were in SC1.

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They were never going to be cheaper. They were dirt cheap in StarCraft 1. What they were going to do was make them lower tech and give them more widely useful abilities. Cloak is A LOT more useful at lower tier, and they make up for their higher cost with much better damage and a higher health score. They 2-shot drones/probes and 3-shot SCVs... that's really good.

I haven't seen them much, but I think that's another case of nobody really knowing what to do with them or when to get them. I think that's why a lot of the casters look lame right now, a lack of knowledge and familiarity.

I've been playing mainly zerg and I must agree with the infestor bit. I've tried them out a few times and while the snare / dot is neat it isn't worth building the unit. I'm disappointed that they can't cast from underground as well.

Everyone keeps saying roaches are OP but they are basing it off what they do to marines or zealots... which they are the counter for. Have you seen marauders, immortals, stalkers or any unit that attacks ground from the air eat through them?

Casters in general I haven't seen a lot of use from, Raven's mainly just being used as an observer. There really isn't much need for phase shift since everything is being massed. It is considerably better to damage the entire opponents army than to remove one unit from attacking / defending (in 98% of situations).

Creep Tumor is neat... but until you upgrade to a Lair the queen isn't regenerating energy fast enough to use one and use spawn larva on cooldown. That tumor isn't worth the extra larva.

D8 charges... holy god are they powerful. You expect that kind of power on an Ultralisk but not an early game unit. I've seen a small group of reapers jump into my base and rape a couple of sunkens before they did much damage at all. You simply pray you have enough 'lings to run 'em off.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

I can't say anything about Phase Shift, but you've obviously never used Guardian Aura. That is a powerful, and highly annoying, ability.



You've clearly not played the game as Protoss. EMP basically screws up their entire ground army.

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I'm just going on what I've seen in replays. If you say that EMP is used frequently to great effect, I'll take your word for it.

Same for Guardian Aura, although I still think it's an uninteresting ability. It's kind of like Maelstrom only it requires less skill to use.

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Originally Posted by Xeonio

Creep Tumor is neat... but until you upgrade to a Lair the queen isn't regenerating energy fast enough to use one and use spawn larva on cooldown. That tumor isn't worth the extra larva.

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What's this about queen energy regen increasing when you have a lair?

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D8 charges... holy god are they powerful. You expect that kind of power on an Ultralisk but not an early game unit. I've seen a small group of reapers jump into my base and rape a couple of sunkens before they did much damage at all. You simply pray you have enough 'lings to run 'em off.

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Seeing how reapers hard-counter zerglings, maybe you should be using some other unit...

Yea, the few games I've had the issue with them has been times I've tried early expansions. It's most likely that if I don't for the fast expand I'll have roaches to deal with them instead.

I'm not 100% sure that the Queen's regen goes up but I'm pretty sure it does. It feels like it regens faster after I get a lair as I can't get a creep tumor and a spawn larva at the same time until after the lair is up. It might be that the regen is just slightly faster than a spawn larva cooldown so that I just have to wait longer in a match regardless of the lair tech or not. I know that when I have a hive I'm able to setup another hatchery in the main base and keep them both larva'd with a queen (but that is probably due to micro short comings of my own).

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I'm just going on what I've seen in replays. If you say that EMP is used frequently to great effect, I'll take your word for it.

Same for Guardian Aura, although I still think it's an uninteresting ability. It's kind of like Maelstrom only it requires less skill to use.

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About EMP, watch latest games in StarCraftLegacy youtube channel, watch LiquidNazguv vs FrozenArbiter, you will see there how powerful EMP is.

Maelstorm??? What? Oh you think about Force Field... Guardian Aura creats aura around Sentrie that reduce every missile attack by 2. Which means your units are actually getting +2 Armor vs ranged attacks which is extremely powerful for that low cost! And I like it.

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I'm not 100% sure that the Queen's regen goes up but I'm pretty sure it does. It feels like it regens faster after I get a lair as I can't get a creep tumor and a spawn larva at the same time until after the lair is up.

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That's probably because you missed a Spawn Larva cycle.

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I'm not 100% sure that the Queen's regen goes up but I'm pretty sure it does. It feels like it regens faster after I get a lair as I can't get a creep tumor and a spawn larva at the same time until after the lair is up.

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The Queen gets energy on every spawn larvae cycle. The spell takes longer to cast than it does for the Queen to regen the energy necessary to cast it again.

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Same for Guardian Aura, although I still think it's an uninteresting ability. It's kind of like Maelstrom only it requires less skill to use.

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If you're talking about Guardian Shield, that doesn't make any sense. If you're talking about Force-Field... I'm not sure how it takes LESS skill to use.

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Everyone keeps saying roaches are OP but they are basing it off what they do to marines or zealots... which they are the counter for.

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Roaches are pretty powerful. And I say that as a person who is predominately a zerg player. They counter zealots a bit too well I think.

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Originally Posted by Aldrius

Roaches are pretty powerful. And I say that as a person who is predominately a zerg player. They counter zealots a bit too well I think.

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Yea, I was saying the roaches are the counter to zealots / marines / lings... the base units.

I'm not playing at the high end so its probable the pro's have already seen a better work around. My current problem is that Immortals seem to be the answer to most things ATM. Roaches and Marauders are the bread and butter unit which is EASILY countered by Immortals. With each attack upgrade the Immortals get another +4 damage to Armored units... which as you can imagine is pretty nasty.

I've tried countering Immortals with Hydras but the ling's don't seem to stand up to Zealots long enough for the Hydras to finish the job. I don't know what the Terran's do cuz I don't play them.

I switched over to playing Protoss because it is WAY more user friendly than Zerg (mainly due to the building Q and the macro mechanic is much easier to use than going back for larva spawning). Mainly I've just been starting off with zealots and stalkers and as soon as I see the terrans massing marauders (I haven't seen a Terran strat that doesn't include massing them) or Zerg massing roaches (again... thats all they seem to do) I start spamming Immortals. I've won every game with that sad strat.

I think Immortals should be nerf'd at least a bit. Their relative power at tier 2 vs. the equivalent t2 units is quite devastating.

I don't think there is a zerg unit with a bonus damage to armored is there?

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Originally Posted by Kimera757

Overlords only make temporary creep, and sunkens do not make creep.



It's like the ultralisk head attack. It's a different graphic that does different damage. It's quite powerful; I think Blizzard looked at the orc raider and went "I like!"

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Lol... i remember when raiders were quite the cheese. Massing raiders and going straight for killing enemy buildings. Sounds a lot like reapers atm, don't it!?

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Yea, I was saying the roaches are the counter to zealots / marines / lings... the base units.

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Kinda. These days, Roaches are only really a counter for mass Zealot. Normally, I just build up a good quantity of Zerglings. That plus getting a decent surround by luring them back to the creep is enough to deal with Zealots.

Roaches have lots of really hard counters: Stalkers, Marauders, Hydralisks. Getting too many Roaches leads to you being steam-rolled. Not unless you invest in the Tier 2 Roach upgrades (faster movement, burrow, and burrowed-movement).

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With each attack upgrade the Immortals get another +4 damage to Armored units...

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Plus 5, actually. Their bonus damage mod is 3, while their regular damage mod is 2.

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Their relative power at tier 2 vs. the equivalent t2 units is quite devastating.

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But they're incredibly weak. They can't shoot air and Tier 1 units slaughter them. They're good as close-range support, but it's not like you can mass them and win. And any AtG murders them quick and easy. Banshees, Mutalisks, Phoenix (Grav), whatever.

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Originally Posted by Kimera757

Seeing how reapers hard-counter zerglings, maybe you should be using some other unit...

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Reapers are way too fast to get anything but speedlings - just 1 rax/techlab or 2rax/techlab and you have reapers. 4 -5 reapers are enough to cause like 200dmg every second or 2 secs... *fucking OP man! They really require a dmg nerf or d8 needs to go. There is absolutely no way to predict reapers via scouting too, and theyre fast and more mobile than any other early unit!


Possible counter in PvT: Early rush to stalkers (but leaves you vulnerable to marauders)
Possible counter in TvT: Tech to reapers as well and outmicro, OR marines and bunkers at strategic places (more balanced)
Possible counter in ZvT: lings to speedlings and be vigilant of them (which is insane)

Btw are yamato's and nukes finally smart casts? And nukes deal 300 damage flat to all units in the area? or has some kind of a radius and the further away you get you take something like 300/200/100 ? Is the yamato cast from 10 range like the old one ? how exacly is the +200 vs buildings applied? How much seconds until it reaches it's target? (i think it's suppose to be faster then the old 15 seconds) ? Does it have some kind of a radiation effect or Emp?(That's a stupid question i forgot that blizzard likes to distant itself from reality :D)

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Originally Posted by arthas

Btw are yamato's and nukes finally smart casts?

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Except for blink (maybe charge... but charge is auto-cast), everything is smart cast.

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Does it have some kind of a radiation effect or Emp?(That's a stupid question i forgot that blizzard likes to distant itself from reality :D)

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No. That'd be pretty arbitrary...

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Originally Posted by RamiZ

Maelstorm??? What? Oh you think about Force Field... Guardian Aura creats aura around Sentrie that reduce every missile attack by 2. Which means your units are actually getting +2 Armor vs ranged attacks which is extremely powerful for that low cost! And I like it.

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My mistake; I said Maelstrom, I meant Dark Swarm. Guardian Aura protects against ranged attacks kind of like that.

Guardian Aura may be very useful, but I think it's uninteresting because it's just an aura. I like spells like Force Field and Psi Storm because they're very powerful but have to be used properly; they require skill. You don't just turn them on and reap the benefits (like you do with an aura).

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Originally Posted by Aldrius

Except for blink (maybe charge... but charge is auto-cast), everything is smart cast.



No. That'd be pretty arbitrary...

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Hmm yes and some abilities like siege/unsiege,viking transform.,cloacking,but those are obvious...btw can you check about the nuke damage potential and the yamato siege range?

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Originally Posted by PosImpos

My mistake; I said Maelstrom, I meant Dark Swarm. Guardian Aura protects against ranged attacks kind of like that.

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It's similar, yes. While dark swarm nullified all ranges attacks from the outside, guardian simply reduces its effectiveness. Still, for all intents and purposes the ability is nearly identical and thus not interesting.

Seems like so many of the abilities in this game are rehashes of the original. Very disappointing...

Speaking counters....

Hydra's have a 'fast' attack speed... but how does it compare to a roach's? Will the same number of hydra's beat the same number of roach's? I haven't spent much time tech'ing into them unless my opponent has air (which hydra's rape).

Question: Do larva spawn faster from a lair or hive than a regular hatchery?

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There is absolutely no way to predict reapers via scouting too

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So, if I use an Overlord to spot double-Barracks with Tech Lab, and I see a Reaper come out, I can't predict Reapers?

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Guardian Aura may be very useful, but I think it's uninteresting because it's just an aura.

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It's uninteresting because it's an aura. That's way stupid. Though not as stupid as:

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While dark swarm nullified all ranges attacks from the outside, guardian simply reduces its effectiveness. Still, for all intents and purposes the ability is nearly identical and thus not interesting.

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It's interesting because it changes targeting. You can stop Guardian Aura, by killing the generating unit. Phoenixes with Graviton, Mutalisk sniping, Banshee raids, or just good old-fashioned focus-fire if they get too close.

Once Dark Swarm goes down, there's nothing you can do except wait it out. And it stops ranged attacks, rather than just weakening them slightly. Guardian aura is great against units that rely on fast attack speed. It is terrible for units that rely on single-shot damage (60 damage AoE won't notice -2). Dark Swarm works equally well on everything. Dark Swarm is immobile, while Guardian Aura is not.

So no, it is not "for all intents and purposes ... nearly identical." Indeed, the only similarity between the two is that they affect ranged attacks. Everything else is completely different.

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Hydra's have a 'fast' attack speed... but how does it compare to a roach's? Will the same number of hydra's beat the same number of roach's?

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It depends. Is Burrow micro being used by the Roaches? If so, does the Hydra side have an Overseer?

Is the battle on Creep? If so, are the Hydras kiting the Roaches?

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Question: Do larva spawn faster from a lair or hive than a regular hatchery?

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Why would they even add that? There's Spawn Larva; if there's one thing the Zerg don't need anymore, it's faster larva spawn rates.

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Originally Posted by Xeonio

Yea, I was saying the roaches are the counter to zealots / marines / lings... the base units.

I'm not playing at the high end so its probable the pro's have already seen a better work around. My current problem is that Immortals seem to be the answer to most things ATM. Roaches and Marauders are the bread and butter unit which is EASILY countered by Immortals. With each attack upgrade the Immortals get another +4 damage to Armored units... which as you can imagine is pretty nasty.

I've tried countering Immortals with Hydras but the ling's don't seem to stand up to Zealots long enough for the Hydras to finish the job. I don't know what the Terran's do cuz I don't play them.

I switched over to playing Protoss because it is WAY more user friendly than Zerg (mainly due to the building Q and the macro mechanic is much easier to use than going back for larva spawning). Mainly I've just been starting off with zealots and stalkers and as soon as I see the terrans massing marauders (I haven't seen a Terran strat that doesn't include massing them) or Zerg massing roaches (again... thats all they seem to do) I start spamming Immortals. I've won every game with that sad strat.

I think Immortals should be nerf'd at least a bit. Their relative power at tier 2 vs. the equivalent t2 units is quite devastating.

I don't think there is a zerg unit with a bonus damage to armored is there?

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Keep in mind Immortals cost a whoopin 4 food. So they should be MUCH more difficult to mass than roaches.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

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Originally Posted by Xeonio

Hydra's have a 'fast' attack speed... but how does it compare to a roach's? Will the same number of hydra's beat the same number of roach's?

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It depends. Is Burrow micro being used by the Roaches? If so, does the Hydra side have an Overseer?

Is the battle on Creep? If so, are the Hydras kiting the Roaches?

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Assuming no micro. Mainly I just want to know which one has more DPS. Yes, I know there are reasons to have one over the other, I'm not talking about niche scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

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Originally Posted by Xeonio

Question: Do larva spawn faster from a lair or hive than a regular hatchery?

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Why would they even add that? There's Spawn Larva; if there's one thing the Zerg don't need anymore, it's faster larva spawn rates.

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I'd say thanks but you didn't really answer the question, simply gave a reason for it not to be in.

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Originally Posted by moosh

Keep in mind Immortals cost a whoopin 4 food. So they should be MUCH more difficult to mass than roaches.

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Yea, they aren't easy to mass but you don't need a whole lot of 'em when they are hitting your armored units for 50 each hit. I think the problem you get into with them is the hardened shields (personally I think it should be researched).

1 Immortal hits a roach for 50... 4 Roaches hit an Immortal for 40 (w/shields) 64 (w/o shields).

3 shots from an Immortal kills a Roach
6-7 shot rounds from the 4 roaches kills the Immortal

Immortal (250 min / 100 gas)
Roach x4 (300 min / 100 gas)

I don't think its like WOW thats crazy OP but I think it does deserve a tiny nerf. It seems odd that one unit so crazily trumps another unit, especially after they took out Scourge (assumably because scourge mostly nullified air strats vs. Zerg).

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

It's uninteresting because it's an aura. That's way stupid.

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It's uninteresting because you don't have to place it, you don't have to micro it, you don't have to have any skill at all to use it. Just press a button and turn it on. There is some trade off because you're using energy that you could use for Force Field, but that's all the thinking there is to it.

At least Dark Swarm took a little bit more skill because it was a placed ability so you had to actually micro where you placed it and keep your units within it etc. Guardian Aura is a dumbed down version of that ability (though not as powerful, as you explained). I agree that they are not "nearly identical," however.

In general, I dislike auras in RTS games because they are a passive way of adding strategic depth. There's no way for a player to distinguish himself through the use of an aura. One guy isn't going to be a whole lot better at using an aura than another. There were a lot of auras in WC3, but there were a ton of activated abilities in that game so it was fine. There aren't that many spellcaster abilities in Starcraft II, so I'd like them all to be a bit more nuanced than "press button to activate."

I don't see Immortals creating huge problems. They're very strong vs Armored units, and heavy hitters like the Siege Tank are totally useless against them (while the Shields are up), but they cost a ton of resources, and are weak vs a bunch of cheap units (that can eat the Shields pretty fast), several spells, have no defense vs air, etc.

About auras, you still need to micro the aura-generator, which is a very frail unit, unlike the heroes in WC3 that had a huge amount of HP. If the enemy focuses fire on a Sentry, it isn't going to last.

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

About auras, you still need to micro the aura-generator, which is a very frail unit, unlike the heroes in WC3 that had a huge amount of HP. If the enemy focuses fire on a Sentry, it isn't going to last.

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That's a fair point. Still, I'd like to see Guardian Aura be changed to be an activated ability that requires a bit more involvement on the player's part - not just doing what they can to keep the Sentinel alive.

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Originally Posted by PosImpos

That's a fair point. Still, I'd like to see Guardian Aura be changed to be an activated ability that requires a bit more involvement on the player's part - not just doing what they can to keep the Sentinel alive.

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It IS an activated ability. What made you think it wasn't? And it's called guardian SHIELD not Guardian Aura.

There are also other considerations, like the range of the aura is shorter than the Sentry's attack range. So if you want to use it with zealots you either have to micro your sentry or micro your zealots.

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Assuming no micro. Mainly I just want to know which one has more DPS. Yes, I know there are reasons to have one over the other, I'm not talking about niche scenarios.

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Burrow micro is not a "niche scenario;" it's the only reason to use Roaches at Lair-tech. And spreading creep isn't "niche" either; it's a basic strategy of the intelligent Zerg player.

If you want to see what the DPS of a unit is, have one of them shoot at a Command Center and see how long it takes them to kill it. If you're looking for more useful information, like their combat effectiveness, then "niche scenarios" like using actual micro will have to be taken into account.

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I'd say thanks but you didn't really answer the question, simply gave a reason for it not to be in.

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It's an idiotic question. It has never been in the game. Nobody talked about adding it to the game. Blizzard has never stated that they were considering it.

It's like asking "Does the Nexus produce Stalkers?" or "Do Reapers come from the Planetary Fortress?"

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1 Immortal hits a roach for 50... 4 Roaches hit an Immortal for 40 (w/shields) 64 (w/o shields).

3 shots from an Immortal kills a Roach
6-7 shot rounds from the 4 roaches kills the Immortal

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And? Roaches are armored and do a lot of damage in one shot. Immortals counter armored units that do a lot of damage in one shot. They're supposed to beat them cost-for-cost; that's what they're for.

It's like saying, "Well, Mutalisks should get a nerf because they beat Immortals to easily." They're supposed to.

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It's uninteresting because you don't have to place it, you don't have to micro it, you don't have to have any skill at all to use it. Just press a button and turn it on.

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So, the location of the Sentry doesn't matter. You just turn it on, and your units halfway across the map are protected? :rolleyes:

You do have to expend effort to make sure that all your units (including those charging Zealots that just ran out of its range to gleefully attack) are covered.

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There aren't that many spellcaster abilities in Starcraft II, so I'd like them all to be a bit more nuanced than "press button to activate."

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Arbiters had an aura; I didn't hear you complaining about them.

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Originally Posted by Aldrius

It IS an activated ability. What made you think it wasn't? And it's called guardian SHIELD not Guardian Aura.

There are also other considerations, like the range of the aura is shorter than the Sentry's attack range. So if you want to use it with zealots you either have to micro your sentry or micro your zealots.

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When I say activated I mean like you have to do something other than click the button and it just turns on and follows the unit around. It's an "activated" aura but it's not an ability in the same sense that psi storm or force field is an ability. Sorry; I should be more precise with my terminology.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

So, the location of the Sentry doesn't matter. You just turn it on, and your units halfway across the map are protected? :rolleyes:

You do have to expend effort to make sure that all your units (including those charging Zealots that just ran out of its range to gleefully attack) are covered.

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Yes, thank you, just totally exaggerate what I'm saying in order to make it seem ridiculous.

What I mean - and I think you know very well what I mean - is an aura isn't a particularly involved ability. Yes, you have to keep your units within it to take advantage of its effects. But as long as you're doing that, you don't have to think about it. Perhaps if the range is small enough that you have to be constantly working to keep your units within it, then it is sufficiently involved. But that just sounds annoying to me. But hey, maybe Guardian Shield really is a an ability which requires great skill and micro to use to its full potential. If such is the case, I will gladly concede the point. I'm just trying to say that an ability which is basically "turn on and nearby units take less damage from ranged attacks" doesn't seem very interesting to me.

About the arbiter: yes, it had an aura. But the aura wasn't one of its activated abilities. So Blizzard didn't implement the stealth aura in lieue of some other activated ability (like stasis or recall) which required energy. If the sentry had a passive "guardian shield" aura (which would be well overpowered I'm sure) and two other activated abilities - like the Arbiter did - then I would have no problem whatsoever with it.

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Yes, thank you, just totally exaggerate what I'm saying in order to make it seem ridiculous.

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No, you did that on your own. After all, you're the one about to claim that an aura that doesn't take energy is more interesting than one that does. That's pretty much about as ridiculous as it gets.

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But hey, maybe Guardian Shield really is a an ability which requires great skill and micro to use to its full potential.

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Does Psi Storm require "great skill and micro"? No. It's point and click. Select HT, press the Psi Storm button, and choose the target.

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So Blizzard didn't implement the stealth aura in lieue of some other activated ability (like stasis or recall) which required energy.

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How do you know that? How do you know that they didn't have some third ability in testing, but in the end just decided to give Arbiters a permanent ability?

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If the sentry had a passive "guardian shield" aura (which would be well overpowered I'm sure) and two other activated abilities - like the Arbiter did - then I would have no problem whatsoever with it.

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I... what? That makes it less interesting. It would no longer contend with Force Field and Hallucinate, thus removing critical decision making from the ability. No questions of energy contention, or time limits, or EMP, or anything.

It really doesn't get more brainless than a permanent AoE aura, where position micro is the only thing involved. Saying that this would be in some way better than the current Guardian Shield is like saying that Dark Templar are more interesting than Banshees, because Banshees have to research and activate their cloak.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Does Psi Storm require "great skill and micro"? No. It's point and click. Select HT, press the Psi Storm button, and choose the target.

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Well, it requires skill and micro, if the requirement is great or not, it largely depends on the situation. In PvP games, landing a Storm while dodging the enemy Stoms (in addition to your own!) is hard, every instant you have your HT selected is a instant you aren't dodging. Only slow targets are easy to target to full effect. With fast units you even need to predict where they're going to be when the ability activates (takes a small delay, even on BW).

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Originally Posted by Norfindel

Well, it requires skill and micro, if the requirement is great or not, it largely depends on the situation. In PvP games, landing a Storm while dodging the enemy Stoms (in addition to your own!) is hard, every instant you have your HT selected is a instant you aren't dodging. Only slow targets are easy to target to full effect. With fast units you even need to predict where they're going to be when the ability activates (takes a small delay, even on BW).

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I second you there. Storming and storm-dodging is the eternal micro dance in PvP, and in PvZ mid-game when facing lots of hydras. Storm does not require micro? It is very intensive to micro HTs and storming. Have you ever tried storming approaching speed zeals? You don't even dent their shields if you just storm a region they're only passing through and not stopping to attack. Yeah, storming definitely requires micro skill.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

No, you did that on your own. After all, you're the one about to claim that an aura that doesn't take energy is more interesting than one that does. That's pretty much about as ridiculous as it gets.



Does Psi Storm require "great skill and micro"? No. It's point and click. Select HT, press the Psi Storm button, and choose the target.



How do you know that? How do you know that they didn't have some third ability in testing, but in the end just decided to give Arbiters a permanent ability?



I... what? That makes it less interesting. It would no longer contend with Force Field and Hallucinate, thus removing critical decision making from the ability. No questions of energy contention, or time limits, or EMP, or anything.

It really doesn't get more brainless than a permanent AoE aura, where position micro is the only thing involved. Saying that this would be in some way better than the current Guardian Shield is like saying that Dark Templar are more interesting than Banshees, because Banshees have to research and activate their cloak.

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Well, I'm done arguing about it. Apparently I'm doing an absolutely atrocious job explaining what I mean because you haven't grasped any of the points I've made yet.

Cheers.

@PosImpos - Yea, I'm pretty sure that's the point of Nicol on these forums. Just to berate someone until they stop posting. Rather than answering a question he/she just talks down to you as if you have no idea WTF you're talking about. It's rather insulting but I'm gonna let him win cuz I'm pretty much done w/these forums as well. Sorry he got to you as well.