Hm, not really, since MS, Carriers and BCs are massive and armored, so... :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
I know what you wanted to say and I agree, but you can also put MS, BC, Carriers, Corruptors etc. Under same category.
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Hm, not really, since MS, Carriers and BCs are massive and armored, so... :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
I know what you wanted to say and I agree, but you can also put MS, BC, Carriers, Corruptors etc. Under same category.
I don't think so, Corruptors have a bonus vs Massive, aren't Massive themselves, and don't attack ground. I wouldn't consider them "capital ships".Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
About the bonuses, no problem. You just need to give the Light units a bonus vs Armored, the Armored units a bonus vs Massive, and remove the Armored type from the Capital ships, making them only Massive. I think it should be possible. Or just modify some other parameter to make the Light units not so good vs the Massive ones. The Massive units could get an additional bonus vs Light, if needed.
Of course, there's no need to exagerate the bonuses, the units don't need to be a ton more effective for cost than the others.
Uh, yeah, I missed that. They changed it, Corruptors did before bonus vs Armored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
Point is, if you address Capital Ships just as Massive, then Ground units will have really hard time against them. You are looking on it just as AtA fight, and it isn't. ;)
Zerglings have the highest damage output of any unit (save stimmed Marines, and that's time-limited). They had damn well better kill an ST in seconds. And Immortals are anti-armored, designed to crush Siege Tanks.Quote:
Yes but colossi are more durable for their cost,I'm not saying they should be a one man army but at least to last a little more then 2-3 seconds againts 10 zerglings....or 2-3 hits from a immortal...
If someone uses the unit that counters your units, you can't complain about why your units went down so fast.
That's true but at least they should have a little more then 3 seconds to unsiege them and quickly retreat or be picked by the medivac...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Try scouting to prevent that. Every other option you might choose to take decreases your reaction time, making it your own damn fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by arthas
Do they still hold that honour? I think they did in BW, but I haven't tested in SC2 yet. So many units hit so hard and fast in SC2 like Ultralisks and Hydralisks, that I'm not even sure if Zerglings still hold that particular honour :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas
Yeah, but what ground unit is good vs Armored air, anyways?Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
LOL, I just saw that there is almost no units that are Ground and that gets bonus vs armored and can attack Air. That is strange. Well, I found Stalkers have bonus vs armored, as they are the only thing that is good vs Armored air units in toss army. Well Void Rays are good too, but they are not Generalists as Stalkers are, and Stalkers are really mobile for ground units.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
Don't Hydras have a bonus v. armored?
Not anymore, now they just do 12 all round damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkitone
True, but they still have better damage-over-time than most units that shoot air. They're not specialized at armored air, but they can still bring down pretty much anything that flies.Quote:
Not anymore, now they just do 12 all round damage.
Stalkers. Stalkers are insanely good against armored air units.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
Hydralisks are fairly good against armored air. A little vulnerable depending on what they are fighting. For Terran, get enough Marines/Thor and they work too. Thor with their range advantage work pretty well against capital ships anyway. Damage is a bit low, though, but they can take a hit.
Yes, it seems like Stalkers are clearly a unit that would suffer a lot, if they have to go against the command ships, and they would lose the Armored tag. They have 8 +6 vs Armored damage. I'm surprised of the 8 base damage, it's very low. Even the Dragoon, that wasn't effective vs small units until you got a lot of them had 10 base damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
Ok, but Hydras have no specific bonus, so they won't suffer in the scenario we were discussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
The Thor has [10 +6 vs Light] x 4 with splash? Are they on drugs or what? That means that the Thor deals 64 dmg per attack on the target area. Won't light air units just melt away, or the attack rate is really slow?
Both. The attack is slow, but light units really can't survive it.Quote:
Won't light air units just melt away, or the attack rate is really slow?
Key thing here is that Stalkers can actually MOVE. Their pathing and movement speed is WAY better, and that only gets better when they get blink.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
So really they're MUCH better against light units than dragoons were. More of them can shoot at them, and if they get caught they can actually escape.
Stalkers were better with 11 base damage right? I think the immortals pretty much fill up the gap required for anti-armored support
Blech, no. Stalkers are great right now. Making them BETTER against light units would not be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by arthas
Except against air. And they don't deal near as much damage cost-for-cost. Well, they do from a theoretical mathematical point of view. But with the Stalkers higher speed and blink and all, they're better damage-dealers.Quote:
I think the immortals pretty much fill up the gap required for anti-armored support
Agreed. If Stalkers were actually good against Mutalisks, there'd be no need for Phoenixes.Quote:
Blech, no. Stalkers are great right now. Making them BETTER against light units would not be good.
you are right,didn't think of that,and will make phoenixes more effective and usefull overallQuote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
It really surprises me to read that about the Stalker, the stats look so low, and the cooldown isn't particularily fast. I would had assumed that they're complete crap vs anything that isn't Armored.
They're SO mobile. It makes up for any of the Stalker's perceived 'weaknesses'. And they attack fairly quickly. Especially with blink, they're incredibly difficult to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norfindel
The only thing they seem to be particularly bad against is Mutalisks, and even then, it's not impossible for a group of stalkers to beat a group of mutalisks. Especially with sentry support.
Blink is perfect on the Stalker. It turns a nerfed Dragoon into a real strong unit.
You took the words from my moth! :) This!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldrius
It's not even a nerfed dragoon. The lower damage is made up for by the fact that they're so much faster and lither. More stalkers can attack the same target A LOT quicker than the same number of dragoons could. The only real nerf is their slightly lower HP.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid
So you said 'any many' too? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by RamiZ
range is nerfed too. but whatever. stalker is a good well adjusted unit, expect nothing more than small tweaks to it during beta (along with clear trends of the metagame if there are any? im just rambling? :P)
No it isn't. They start with 6 range. That's what a dragoon has with it's upgrade. So if anything, that was buffed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
Terrans:
Surprised: Viking, Reaper, Ghost, Raven and Medivac
Disappointed: Banshee, Battle Cruiser and Thor
Protoss:
Surprised: Void Ray, Carrier, Sentry, Dark Templar, Colossus, Immortal
Disappointed: High Templar, Archorn and Fenix
Zerg:
Surprised: Roaches, Hydralisks, Nydus Worm, Mutalisk, Corruptor and Broodlord
Disappointed: Ultralisk
I need to investigate closer into infestors.
Surprised - This game really does seem well balanced from the very get-go of beta. Just from reading everything in this thread and listening to pro and amatuer players' opinions alike, there really isn't that much everybody agrees on and most units seems balanced for what they are.
Disappointed - I didn't get a beta key. :(