More reason to add another Zerg caster!!!
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More reason to add another Zerg caster!!!
More reason to bring back Spore Cloud!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Asfastasican
-Psi
The Zerg have plenty of casters. They just all currently suck (except the Queen, but she's just a Spawn Larva factory).Quote:
More reason to add another Zerg caster!!!
Uh... how about they actually put some spells on the spellcasters they already have first...Quote:
Originally Posted by Asfastasican
Something simple then:
Give it Plauge but make it one-target ?
is it a problem that this would be less significant against protoss? or maybe it isnt cuz they ahve so many big units?
low energy cost, high DoT ... preferably based on % of units life, but not necessarily since its hard to use en-mass anyway due to one-target.
Plague AoE overlaps with Fungal Growth in a way that isnt optimal. even if it was made quite weak on small units by basing its damage on targets max-life, it would feel quite iffy.... but hey, if what the infestor needs is to replace FG with some sort of big-unit-focused plague, i could live with that... but with plague, Neural parasite would feel a bit out of place as well. its tricky.
Fungal Growth is basically already a very weakened plague combined with a very strengthened ensnare as it is... the easy solution here is to replace Siphon Life with something more practical, and make Neural Parasite work on mechanical units and then balance it accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
What if we change siphon life to something a bit cooler and more effective:
used from under ground, but still short range (not too much more than 3?) make the infestor entangle and drag the unit underground and make it targetable by burrowed units whether it should retain its DoT or even energy siphoning capabilities idk, probably not he siphoning.. then it would also require a new name.
I have to disagree with making Neural Parasite able to effect Mechanical units. I'd rather not have it in at all, but that's because I hate anything that takes the ability to fight back from me. I hated Lockdown, Maelstorm (?), Mindcontrol, and Stasis Field in SC1. I hated being stunned-locked in WoW, but not Feared because it broke randomly or with damage.
I'm also wary of the Mothership's Black Hole/Time Warp ability, as well as the Pheonix's Anti-Gravity Beam. The Mothership's ability could be justified because of it's unique status, as well as the cost. I'm not sure, but do units that could attack air still attack while under the effect of Anti-Gravity beam? If not, I feel that should be changed.
I'm also not sure how I feel about the Corrupter's ability to shut down buildings. I assume it's as annoying as Frost Breath from the Frost Wyrms (?) in War3, and be that the case I'd rather have Spore Cloud. Although, I never saw Spore Cloud, did it function similarly to Dark Swarm?
I also disagree with Neural Parasite effecting Mechanical units on a realistic level, I don't see how you could possible get to a Siege Tanks driver through the armor. It also bothered me that Broodlings could be spawn from Mechanical units. I do understand that it is a game, but there should be somethings that follow a logical path.
I feel that abilities that impair control, as opposed to removing it, are a much better option. I like Forcefield, Guardian Aura, the Maurader's slow effect and the Personal Defense Drone for this reason. I'm not sure how Fungal Bloom works, but I assume your units will still fight back.
Disabling abilities aren't as bad as you think, rdragon87. Stasis in SC1 was meant as a Tier3 tactic to immobilize troops while the rest of them get pounded, adn its use was subjective to microing correctly, and its small AoE made it harder to use when someone retreats and spreads his units while doing so.
MC was never used in SC1 except as a "pimpest play" tactic; not everyone can practically use it, and Dark Archons had no restrictions to use it. But DAs were costly in terms of gas and the energy requirement and depleting shields was a big cost to use the DA. Annoying as hell to have your 5-6 carriers MCed but then it comes down to scouting correctly and using your units effectively by not putting them in range of the caster and killing it before it uses MC.
The same would apply to infestor, except that a nerf was in order since it was clearly too cheap an ability. I was hoping for maybe a complete depletion of energy at least to use neural parasite, hence reducing the infestor's ability to spam the spell. But right now, MC organic units is just as good for the energy cost.
I agree with you that neural parasite should not be effective on mechanical units and I believe it must stay on organic units to prevent infestors from being OP.
Siphon Life on the other hand is a very stupid ability and I have seen it used like ONCE! I believe they should find another spell or animation to enable the infestor to regain its energy. Bring back CONSUME maybe...
Well I can see 3 ways to balance it
1. Cheap 25 energy,
non-psi,non-massive, non-mechanical... autocastable (making it anti light...problem is overlap in function with FG
2. Medium ~75 energy
non-psi, non-massive
good for siege tanks, Immortals, air units
3. large ~150 energy
non-psi
good for massive units (except Archon+MS)
I think #3 might be the best.. it can work against the single "support" heavy in an army to take out te rest of the army (like in BR ?? with the Colossus)
OR it can just work like an "Insta kill" if there are a large # of unit X... ie cast it on one Immortal out of a dozen, in a few seconds that immortal is dead.
For options #2+3 I'd disable building functions. (so no multiple tech trees)
All the abilities should either be
1. Long Range
2. Castable while burrowed
I slightly prefer the castable while burrowed.
Siphon Life should be on the Queen, and only castable on buildings (Friendly or enemy not neutral... multiple targets at once)
The Infester should get the ability to spawn broodlings out of enemy or friendly buildings Without disabling them.
I get the strategy behind it, but I still don't like it. I'm the guy who can't stand slasher films because people rarely fight back when they're getting murdered. I actually like Boogeyman, despite it being a shitty movie, because of the end. I also like Aliens (the second movie) as well as the Predator movies for this reason.
I agree with you about Siphon Life. Maybe they could change it to an anti-caster ability. Maybe make it so the can do it while burrowed as well as maintained on the move, but have it drain energy from the unit it's "attached' to. It would strengthen the ability, while weakening the enemy if he's not paying attention.
I feel that your MP costs were too cheap. Should be at least 100 to do even SiegeTanks, probably more. It would take over entire armies at 75. Assuming that energy counts are still at 200 and upgradeable to 250, that would be three units per Infestor and that would be ridiculous.
this would be cool. but what about Neural prasite? and to Krikkitone: why non psionic? ....Quote:
Originally Posted by rdragon87
to have it able to target all biological units includes ghosts and templars, which IMO makes the ability powerful enough against all races, with some tweaks. there seems to be some confusion about the state of neural parasite: can it target psionic units or not?
my favoured way of spicing up the parasite is still this:
Quote:
what if the parasite initially gave nothing but vision of the target for a long or infinite duration, but could at ANY time be activated by the player as to then effectively work like neural parasite works now.
They're not. Spellcasters have 200 energy. There's a research upgrade that lets them SPAWN with 30 extra energy. Personally I think that's kinda useless, though...Quote:
Assuming that energy counts are still at 200 and upgradeable to 250, that would be three units per Infestor and that would be ridiculous.
...what? That would... not be good. And what ability would it replace?Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkitone
Eh. I still REALLY like the old Infest ability.Quote:
The Infester should get the ability to spawn broodlings out of enemy or friendly buildings Without disabling them.
In my mind:
Infest
125 energy (150 if they bring back the +50 energy upgrade)
Research at Hive
Requires 10 seconds to cast. Has 9 range. Building is infested for 20 seconds and can do nothing. Spawns Infested Marines(from Terran buildings) or Spawnlings (from Zerg/Protoss buildings) at a rate of 5 every 10 seconds (so 15 after the duration of the spell) while the building is afflicted.
Infested Marines
35 HP
4 damage (fast)
Slow movement speed
Lasts 15 seconds
Spawnling having the same stats.
Probably non-psionic so that you couldn't go about Neural parasiting Queens and walking them out of the Base, and probably to keep the balance. Imagine using Neural Parasite to seize a Templar and the Psi-Storming everything in sight. It just wouldn't be balance for the cost of the unit. If Infestors were unique than maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todie
But if you take out psionic units, that just leaves Zealots for the Protoss.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdragon87
You'll notice that almost no spell in SC2 takes more than 100 energy (and the only one that does is the only use for energy on that unit: Yamato). This is deliberate design by Blizzard; 150 energy spells are just not worthwhile.Quote:
3. large ~150 energy
It's a hell of a lot more useful than the +50 max energy upgrades in SC1.Quote:
There's a research upgrade that lets them SPAWN with 30 extra energy. Personally I think that's kinda useless, though...
Infestors are very expensive, particularly in gas. Unless you're on 3 bases, you're not going to be making them by the dozens.Quote:
It would take over entire armies at 75. Assuming that energy counts are still at 200 and upgradeable to 250, that would be three units per Infestor and that would be ridiculous.
Utterly useless. SL is limited based on the time it takes to spawn (which is also the time it takes her to recover energy). There's no point to giving the Queen Siphon Life unless you really, really need Transfusion.Quote:
Siphon Life should be on the Queen, and only castable on buildings (Friendly or enemy not neutral... multiple targets at once)
Well than based on that, I would say that only being able to effect Organic units is fine for its cost. At 50 a pop, thats 4 per and assuming you build them with any presence (read: 4+) that's quite a few people you can turn. Yes, the ability is situational, but then so are most of the spells. I mean, if you get infestors against someone who was rolling Marines, Mauraders, Medivac and a couple of Thors Neural Parasite could be devastating. Just turn all the Marauders against them, have em fire at the Thors and hope to drop them and that's just with 4 support units.
I still hope that with such a short casting range, someone could pull off a Baneling Neural in the midst of a Zergling swarm :P
-Psi
It also would require tons and tons of micro. Fungal Growth is more effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdragon87