[Idea] Should the Nexus Macro Mech. be a Channeling Spell?

In light of the Twitter update that the Protoss' resource macro mechanic now resides in the Nexus, I was wondering what others feel about it possibly being a channeling ability that lasts a fixed period of time and when used prevents the Nexus' other functions, specifically building Probes.

Of course, to compensate, the magnitude of its effect can be increased (e.g. doubles the amount of minerals carried by each Probe per trip). Hence, when mineral fields are not saturated, the Protoss would be able to temporarily keep up with the other races despite having fewer workers and not producing more. But as the opponent approach saturation, the Protoss would lag behind.

On the other hand, upon reaching saturation, the Protoss' mining rate would outstrip that of the other other races. However, this too is alright since the Protoss player would have a lot of catching up to do as s/he would not have been using the macro mechanic during this time. And while they would eventually surpass the opponents' resources, it would be their fault for allowing the player to do this undisturbed since it would take some time.

The points in favor of such a mechanic is as follows:

• The Protoss don't need dedicated Probes for construction and therefore, need fewer Probes to operate a base.
• Introduces decision-making for the Protoss player. To be specific, do you want to increase mineral output or momentarily delay it since an extra Probe would allow you to mind that much more minerals (among other tasks).
• Functions as an APM sink since you can't queue Probe production while using the ability and for every moment it's not doing either, it would be a huge inefficiency on the player's part that would be signifcantly punished for.

Feel free to put any macro suggestions you have in the macro thread. Were keeping a tally of which ones everyone agrees with.


Oh and can we stop proposing macro mechanics that decrease macro. Less Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. The idea of channeling might have potential but not if it does so to the detrimentof another foundational macro mechanic.





Focus on making macro mechanics decrease micro capacity. This leads to differentiation of playstyles.

I doubt the macro mechanic would be available immediately on your first Nexus. Terrans need a Orbital Command, Zerg need a Queen, I'm sure you would need something to 'unlock' the macro mechanic. A researchable ability would make more sense IMO.

It would probaly be a new upgrade.
Gateway ->Warpgate
Nexus -> ???

So i'm just thinking, what are the chances it is something conected to teleporting or warping? (anyone remeber the RA2 Alies harvesters, Dustin probaly does )

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Originally Posted by Perfecttear

It would probaly be a new upgrade.
Gateway ->Warpgate
Nexus -> ???

So i'm just thinking, what are the chances it is something conected to teleporting or warping? (anyone remeber the RA2 Alies harvesters, Dustin probaly does )

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I remmeber those one, Really cool =D

The Super-nexus should be necessary to warp-in the mothership too.

Perhaps the presence of an Obelisk on the map would unlock the ability for all Nexuses?


-Psi

If it warps resources back while leaving Probes in place, that's fine by me (I came up with the idea originally, though for the Obelisk at the time).

That would be cool. It would at least provide some slowdown on Protoss mineral acquisition. The zerg would need to have 3 expansions + main fully saturated to race against a 2 base protoss with saturation at doubled acquisition rate.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Oh and can we stop proposing macro mechanics that decrease macro. Less Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. The idea of channeling might have potential but not if it does so to the detrimentof another foundational macro mechanic.

Focus on making macro mechanics decrease micro capacity. This leads to differentiation of playstyles.

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Pardon my ignorance but how does this decrease macro vs the Protoss' old one? This is essentially similar to Proton Charge except it would now be located at the Nexus and instead of an energy tension and competition for energy, the ability would be competing against worker production with time as the limited resource instead. Hence, if this isn't what you'd term as a form of macro challenge, neither would the old Obelisk. In which case, Blizzard is clearly going by a different definition than yourself.

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Originally Posted by GnaReffotsirk

That would be cool. It would at least provide some slowdown on Protoss mineral acquisition. The zerg would need to have 3 expansions + main fully saturated to race against a 2 base protoss with saturation at doubled acquisition rate.

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Of course, in order to saturate its own mineral lines, the Protoss player would be significantly behind in its resource gathering since s/he hasn't been using his/her macro mechanic.

Incidentally, this mechanic also provide nexuses at exhausted expansions an additional function. It can serve as an off-site worker production facility where workers are then transferred to active expansions; thereby allowing the active Nexuses to use the ability continuously.

In addition to what you guys stated, I think what would balance this mechanic, whatever it is, is another ability for the nexus other than this macro mechanic. Then making it so that a nexus can only have one or the other at a time.

Id go for a cannon on top of the nexus if the command center does not have it already.. hmmm...

Id go for an something as simple as an extra PSI upgrade and pylon power on the nexus which should make it very viable for early game but giving you no macro mechanics (resource boost) until your expansion.

How does this sound, you activate the Macro mechanic and it drains the shields of the nexus, and prevents you from building probes while you have the ability enabled. While the ability is enabled you warp resources from your probes to the nexus.

Advantage: probes don't have to travel to deliver resources.
Disadvantage: You can not produce probes, and your nexus is more vulnerable to attack.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

Pardon my ignorance but how does this decrease macro vs the Protoss' old one? This is essentially similar to Proton Charge except it would now be located at the Nexus and instead of an energy tension and competition for energy, the ability would be competing against worker production with time as the limited resource instead. Hence, if this isn't what you'd term as a form of macro challenge, neither would the old Obelisk. In which case, Blizzard is clearly going by a different definition than yourself.

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Stopping probe production while using the ability is decreasing one of the few staple macro actions left in the game. Your borrowing from peter to pay paul.

The macro/micro balance is incredibly tipped in micros favor and instead of putting a downside on the micro side your going to throw it on the macro one? Thats making a bad problem worse.

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Originally Posted by Antarus

How does this sound, you activate the Macro mechanic and it drains the shields of the nexus, and prevents you from building probes while you have the ability enabled. While the ability is enabled you warp resources from your probes to the nexus.

Advantage: probes don't have to travel to deliver resources.
Disadvantage: You can not produce probes, and your nexus is more vulnerable to attack.

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Like I just said probe production is macro which is an endangered species right now. The purpose of macro mechanics is to encourage macro gameplay not take macro gameplay away from the player.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

Stopping probe production while using the ability is decreasing one of the few staple macro actions left in the game. Your borrowing from peter to pay paul.

The macro/micro balance is incredibly tipped in micros favor and instead of putting a downside on the micro side your going to throw it on the macro one? Thats making a bad problem worse.

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The thing is, using the ability alone is not sufficient. You still need to produce Probes to expand and to match the enemy's gathering rate. Therefore, the player needs to do both in as efficiently a manner as possible (i.e. punished for idle time) and use one's judgement in what combination it should be (changes according to the player's needs at that moment and style).

I don't know about you, but I take 'macro' to refer to base management - specifically involving decision-making, multi-tasking and keeping track of what's happening in all your bases at the same time - in a way that requires physical effort on the player's part (i.e. not just the UI). By preventing the building of Probes when using the macro mechanic, this effectively prevents the player from fully taking advantage of the queue function. Hence, the player must keep track of when each Nexus finishes channeling so that s/he can either cast it again or start producing Probes.

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Originally Posted by mr. peasant

The thing is, using the ability alone is not sufficient. You still need to produce Probes to expand and to match the enemy's gathering rate. Therefore, the player needs to do both in as efficiently a manner as possible (i.e. punished for idle time) and use one's judgement in what combination it should be (changes according to the player's needs at that moment and style).

I don't know about you, but I take 'macro' to refer to base management - specifically involving decision-making, multi-tasking and keeping track of what's happening in all your bases at the same time - in a way that requires physical effort on the player's part (i.e. not just the UI). By preventing the building of Probes when using the macro mechanic, this effectively prevents the player from fully taking advantage of the queue function. Hence, the player must keep track of when each Nexus finishes channeling so that s/he can either cast it again or start producing Probes.

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I think your missing the overall point of macro mechanics which is to differenetiate macro playstyles from micro playstyles. If you take away one of the few remaining macro actions your taking several steps backwards. Its like adding another version MBS.


Their is a reason the current macro mechaincs make you sacrifice micro (not macro) to use macro.

Macro Mechanic:

Warp path

The Nexus forms a warp path to each probe with in a certain radius of the Nexus. While the Nexus may still warp units in its shields are depleted by maintaining the warp path to each probe. While the warp path is active no probes need to return to the Nexus. Shields will only regenerate once they are fully depleted or the ability is turned off.

This allows you to continue to produce more probes, makes you choose between more health for your nexus or faster mineral gathering.

Does that sound more Macro the Micro?

Hmm, I wonder if it is possible to use an active ability to create a WC3 Night Elf "Entangled Gold Mine", but with Minerals and Probes?

I suppose the mineral node could be converted into a building of sorts, with a max worker cap from harvesting it. Though, that sorta sounds Zerg-like to me :D


-Psi

I was already under the impression that it was somehow channeled? It doesn't seem to make sense it would just be an activated ability. Are they putting energy on a Nexus?

My thoughts were to have it rely on the shields of the Nexus as mentioned above. This to me presents a nice tasty morsel of something to alpha strike. Taking out someones Nexus because its spending a lot of its time with basically 50% health seems good.