SC1 on SC2

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Originally Posted by Hammy

That would be useless anyways because of pathing and the AI in general. I doubt it would have the slightest retro feeling to it.

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This. Imagine how insane zerglings would be in SC1 with SC2's unlimited unit selection and better pathing.

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Originally Posted by Crazy_Jonny

This has been talked to death before. Blizzard probably won't release it (a remake of the campaign) but someone from the community will. Most of the older units are already being included in SP.

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Not a remake of the campaign. Just the ability to play Brood War melee, but with the new graphics, and some of the other new features included in SC2.

For example, I would love to play brood war, but on Bnet 2.0. I would use new features like match making, voice chat, and maybe some of the 2v2 maps. I'd also love to have auto-mine for brood war as well as smart casting. I'd even like to play BW against the new SC2 computer AI.

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Originally Posted by rcp181

This. Imagine how insane zerglings would be in SC1 with SC2's unlimited unit selection and better pathing.

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I agree. It wouldn't be the same. But that could also be a good thing... you would get SC2 and a revamped version of BW. Two new games? Lol

But some of the features SC2 offers are things I alway wanted with SC1. I always thought it was so pointless to have to bring my SCVs to mine instead of just rally pointing them to it. Took me away from the action. I also didn't enjoy having to click on all my HTs to cast Psi Storm. So I really want to play BW, but with those new mechanics installed. I mean just being able to play BW on B.net 2 would be nice.

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Originally Posted by moosh

I agree. It wouldn't be the same. But that could also be a good thing... you would get SC2 and a revamped version of BW. Two new games? Lol

But some of the features SC2 offers are things I alway wanted with SC1. I always thought it was so pointless to have to bring my SCVs to mine instead of just rally pointing them to it. Took me away from the action. I also didn't enjoy having to click on all my HTs to cast Psi Storm. So I really want to play BW, but with those new mechanics installed. I mean just being able to play BW on B.net 2 would be nice.

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While I am sure it would be enjoyable to recreate sc1 in sc2 (and it most certainly will be done multiple times given how everything needed is being included in the editor), its those minor changes and additions that would make me not want to play it. Starcraft as is a great game as it is, adding sc2 features to it won't make it better, they'll just imbalance the game and take away the fun and competitiveness. I look forward to having the sc1 units in sc2 ums, but i'll go back and play the actual sc1 if i have a sudden urge to play with them in melee.

Campaigns would be fun to have remade though.

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Originally Posted by Rogueleader89

While I am sure it would be enjoyable to recreate sc1 in sc2 (and it most certainly will be done multiple times given how everything needed is being included in the editor), its those minor changes and additions that would make me not want to play it. Starcraft as is a great game as it is, adding sc2 features to it won't make it better, they'll just imbalance the game and take away the fun and competitiveness. I look forward to having the sc1 units in sc2 ums, but i'll go back and play the actual sc1 if i have a sudden urge to play with them in melee.

Campaigns would be fun to have remade though.

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What mechanics would take away the fun and competitiveness? I don't feel like things would get all that imbalanced by introducing auto-mine or spell casting.

It would be quite a undertaking to remake sc1.


However remaking sc1 with unretared dragoons and reaver shots that work, would be interesting - still wouldnt be sc1 though

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Originally Posted by moosh

What mechanics would take away the fun and competitiveness? I don't feel like things would get all that imbalanced by introducing auto-mine or spell casting.

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A lot of people have a knee-jerk negative reaction to change. However StarCraft I's UI did play a role in its balance and to a lesser extent its "feel".

For instance, high templar dish out 112 damage over 4 seconds in StarCraft I, but apparently less over 2 seconds in StarCraft II (and add a delay of about a second). The lower damage is probably due to smartcast, since a group of high templar can be used much more efficiently. That's fine for me, but if you make high templar in "SC1 in SC2" do you use the original damage figure, and if so, isn't that overpowered with smartcast?

Lockdown isn't in StarCraft II's multiplayer. Is it overpowered with smartcast? I don't know, and Blizzard hasn't said, but it certainly seems so. Please remember that ghosts were a lot cheaper in SC1.

Mutalisk micro is quite different in StarCraft II. Blizzard has to "break" the engine to get it to work the same way, and it might still end up different. If so, is creating the StarCraft I mutalisk even possible?

In SC2, fewer workers are needed per patch to max out. In SC1, you can have more than two workers per patch; while not as efficient, this option isn't even available in SC2, since the workers will automatically seek a "free" patch not occupied by two workers. In SC1, the max number of workers per patch is "fuzzy" and the first worker per patch is more efficient than even the second worker.

Teamliquid had a forum post on maynarding is different between StarCraft I and II because worker AI is smarter in the newer game. A brief description of maynarding: Transferring workers from an existing base to an expansion. It takes longer for maynarding to be "worth it" in StarCraft II since there's no point until you've fully occupied all mineral slots in all current expansions.

Not that I'm explaining this well; I'm not a progamer, and I'm playing a game, not doing advanced curvy economic math.

Improved unit AI may cause unintended problems. For instance, some people say the scourge is OP since it can quickly kill far more expensive ships. However, if you don't use scourge that skillfully (a problem for lower-skilled players in the macro-heavy StarCraft I) then you're likely to waste scourge against enemy units (eg losing 10 against a battlecruiser; that shouldn't be necessary). However, in StarCraft II you can be sure that units like scourges won't waste themselves that way, which would render them even more powerful. You could lose them to, say, battlecruiser fire, but not to wastage.

(Where's my proof? Well, banelings do not waste themselves this way. A scourge is basically an AtA baneling that doesn't deal splash damage.)

Broodlings moved semi-randomly in StarCraft I (eg sudden spikes and drops in movement speed). Should that behavior be kept? Is that worth it?

And one more issue; what if the unit does exist in StarCraft II but is still quite different? For instance, the battlecruiser? Blizzard might not bother recreating the SC1 battlecruiser, since a SC2 version with a Yamato Cannon has the same role in lore (or just use a slightly smaller Hyperion) but the old SC1 version fired a single heavy blast while the new one (including the Hyperion) fires multiple lighter blasts. This changes the role and feel of the unit. Of course, good enough modellers can resolve that issue. The dropship's pickup/drop times are quite different, although presumably that's an easier issue to resolve.

You can change the UI. Can you take away smartcast and stuff? That's not an easy option, but it may be possible. But if so, is there any point? Why not just play Brood War?

There's a bunch of logistics issues to solve - surmountable, but not easy. You probably can't just make a bunch of units and then say "that's it". Said units could be allowable in both "melee games" (which wouldn't really be melee, so how does that work with AMM? And if you can't access the AMM, then why not just play BW?) and "SC1/BW campaign maps". You'd need a large units directory (to make those units available in any map) and, presumably, an actual map pack for the campaigns and/or popular maps.

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Originally Posted by Kimera757

A lot of people have a knee-jerk negative reaction to change. However StarCraft I's UI did play a role in its balance and to a lesser extent its "feel".

For instance, high templar dish out 112 damage over 4 seconds in StarCraft I, but apparently less over 2 seconds in StarCraft II (and add a delay of about a second). The lower damage is probably due to smartcast, since a group of high templar can be used much more efficiently. That's fine for me, but if you make high templar in "SC1 in SC2" do you use the original damage figure, and if so, isn't that overpowered with smartcast?

Lockdown isn't in StarCraft II's multiplayer. Is it overpowered with smartcast? I don't know, and Blizzard hasn't said, but it certainly seems so. Please remember that ghosts were a lot cheaper in SC1.

Mutalisk micro is quite different in StarCraft II. Blizzard has to "break" the engine to get it to work the same way, and it might still end up different. If so, is creating the StarCraft I mutalisk even possible?

In SC2, fewer workers are needed per patch to max out. In SC1, you can have more than two workers per patch; while not as efficient, this option isn't even available in SC2, since the workers will automatically seek a "free" patch not occupied by two workers. In SC1, the max number of workers per patch is "fuzzy" and the first worker per patch is more efficient than even the second worker.

Teamliquid had a forum post on maynarding is different between StarCraft I and II because worker AI is smarter in the newer game. A brief description of maynarding: Transferring workers from an existing base to an expansion. It takes longer for maynarding to be "worth it" in StarCraft II since there's no point until you've fully occupied all mineral slots in all current expansions.

Not that I'm explaining this well; I'm not a progamer, and I'm playing a game, not doing advanced curvy economic math.

Improved unit AI may cause unintended problems. For instance, some people say the scourge is OP since it can quickly kill far more expensive ships. However, if you don't use scourge that skillfully (a problem for lower-skilled players in the macro-heavy StarCraft I) then you're likely to waste scourge against enemy units (eg losing 10 against a battlecruiser; that shouldn't be necessary). However, in StarCraft II you can be sure that units like scourges won't waste themselves that way, which would render them even more powerful. You could lose them to, say, battlecruiser fire, but not to wastage.

(Where's my proof? Well, banelings do not waste themselves this way. A scourge is basically an AtA baneling that doesn't deal splash damage.)

Broodlings moved semi-randomly in StarCraft I (eg sudden spikes and drops in movement speed). Should that behavior be kept? Is that worth it?

And one more issue; what if the unit does exist in StarCraft II but is still quite different? For instance, the battlecruiser? Blizzard might not bother recreating the SC1 battlecruiser, since a SC2 version with a Yamato Cannon has the same role in lore (or just use a slightly smaller Hyperion) but the old SC1 version fired a single heavy blast while the new one (including the Hyperion) fires multiple lighter blasts. This changes the role and feel of the unit. Of course, good enough modellers can resolve that issue. The dropship's pickup/drop times are quite different, although presumably that's an easier issue to resolve.

You can change the UI. Can you take away smartcast and stuff? That's not an easy option, but it may be possible. But if so, is there any point? Why not just play Brood War?

There's a bunch of logistics issues to solve - surmountable, but not easy. You probably can't just make a bunch of units and then say "that's it". Said units could be allowable in both "melee games" (which wouldn't really be melee, so how does that work with AMM? And if you can't access the AMM, then why not just play BW?) and "SC1/BW campaign maps". You'd need a large units directory (to make those units available in any map) and, presumably, an actual map pack for the campaigns and/or popular maps.

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Touché

An even better idea would be to re-code SC1/BW with a brand new .exe file and re-do all the sprites to HD resolutions.. preserving all the UI and pathing quirks and bugs.

2D SC1 in HD. They can sell it as Starcraft Classic or something.

DOUUUUUUUBT IT!
I meant, Dustin Browder himself said he would love to see someone recreate campaigns, and then he was like *hint hint "Brood War" hint hint*