Zerg Carapace

Hy , i'm wondering how hard is the zerg carapace lorevise. Expecialy compared to the protoss armor (no shields) and the terran neosteel armors. How hard can an biological armor even be?:confused:


Well i heard it is suposebly very hard, so i'm wondering something , if a todays MBT would fire an armor piercing shot at an simple zergling, would it go through the carapace?:)
Any thoughts ?


One more thing i'm wondering, i've read that the Ultralisk Kaiser blades, which have monomolecular edges, are supposably the hardest material in the game, described even as indestructable. Is this correct, i mean it's kinda strange for the Zerg to have the hardest material , and not the Protoss or even the Terran?:o


And while we are on sc materials , any thoughts or info on how hard the terran neosteel is,compared to the other races and todays materials?

Judging from the original Starcraft cinematics, even the Marine Impaler spikes aren't able to fully penetrate zergling carapace unless under full auto, which leads me to believe that it is really strong. As far as how it can be so hard, well, even look at today's animals, like the Tortoise shell, or the scales on an alligator. Obviously they can't stop bullets and whatnot, but they still are pretty tough. And if said species is taken over by something like the Overmind, and is hyper-evolved for years, then it could easily be seen why the carapace becomes so strong.

Same can most likely be said about the Kaiser Blades. The Overmind constatly strived for perfection in its creatures, and the perfect mix of elements/chemicals caused them to be indestructable.

Technology makes up for things that organic beings lack in most cases. In the case of the Zerg, technology cannot make up for anything, and is inferior to the organic "systems" of the Zerg.

Hopefully that makes sense. All of this is simply my own thoughts and feelings about it, so take this with a grain of salt :)

Yeah i also remember the sc1 cinematics, where marines had to fire almost all of their bullets, just to kill a simple zergling :p. But i also heard people saying othervise, that the gauss rifles (even gauss pistols) penetrate the carapace with ease, and if you look at the sc2 trailer, where it shows a hydra being shot by "something", it goes through it like it was nothing. So which is correct?

The Hydralisk from the SCII cinematic was taken out by a Protoss beam weapon, I believe.

Zerg have been shown withstanding copious volumes of firepower from terran weaponry. They've also been shown being very vulnerable to it in the manga and novels. Overall, though, I'd rate their armor to be on par with modern-day armored vehicles.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

The Hydralisk from the SCII cinematic was taken out by a Protoss beam weapon, I believe.

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Really, i always thought it was shot by a gauss rifle, because it showed the new rifle a second before:o
It looked like something fired by the Eraser gun :p

Okay, so I know we're on the same page: we're both talking about this picture, right?

I'm pretty sure it's Protoss-related. I always thought it might have been from a Stalker, part of a detachment rescuing Zeratul.

*zot*

Zerg have hard carapaces, but by themselves cannot stop even gauss rifle fire. (Otherwise zerglings would always pwn marines.) Zerg are also tough. Putting a hole in a zerg has much less effect than putting a hole in a human. If you blow off a hydralisk's arm, it can't attack with it. If you blow off a human's arm, they fall to the ground screaming and probably bleed to death. Zerg are just more resilient.

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so i'm wondering something , if a todays MBT would fire an armor piercing shot at an simple zergling, would it go through the carapace?

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Yes, but a modern MBT only carries 40 tank shells. That's a waste. Tanks (in real life, but not in StarCraft) also have 1-3 machine guns, which are better suited to killing opponents with the value of a zergling. (Modern machine guns would probably have little effect on a zergling, I'm guessing.)

Remember that zerglings are biological creatures, with throats, eyes, and mouths. They aren't equally well protected over their entire bodies. The original cinematics do imply that at least the large head section is resistant to gauss rifle fired spikes, but if you fire at something like a leg? Or the (possibly) softer belly?

In any case, no, a zergling could not take a shot from a modern MBT. You'd probably need excessive amounts of normal assault rifle bullets to take one down, but that's about it. Ok, it's possible even modern assault rifles would be useless against a zergling, but I doubt it.

As for NeoSteel, I think it's safe to say it's harder and thermally more resilient then modern metals. What's interesting about it is that it's also implied to be very dense. There's a bunker upgrade in SC2 that says you can switch out the frame of a bunker to a NeoSteel frame and in that way more dudes can sit inside the bunker. Normal bunkers, IIRC, are made out of paristeel.

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Originally Posted by l33telboi

In any case, no, a zergling could not take a shot from a modern MBT. You'd probably need excessive amounts of normal assault rifle bullets to take one down, but that's about it. Ok, it's possible even modern assault rifles would be useless against a zergling, but I doubt it.

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I don't think that's right. There is no way an modern rifle of any caliber could penetrate the basic zergs armor. I mean it's apparently comparable at the neosteel on battlecruisers and tanks.

And it says on the wiki that the gauss rifle fires "spikes", something around 9 times the speed of the sound, capable of penetrating 5 cm of neosteel or a few meters of flesh or rock. And there was also that comic, where a gauss "pistol" fired goes through a reinforced walls and still hits it's taget.
You could most likely destroy todays tanks with an sc gauss pistol:p

Now compare that to the cinematic use of the gauss rifles vs the zerg, and do you still think that any of todays modern rifles would even made an scratch to a zerg?

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Originally Posted by Perfecttear

I don't think that's right. There is no way an modern rifle of any caliber could penetrate the basic zergs armor. I mean it's apparently comparable at the neosteel on battlecruisers and tanks.

And it says on the wiki that the gauss rifle fires "spikes", something around 9 times the speed of the sound, capable of penetrating 5 cm of neosteel or a few meters of flesh or rock. And there was also that comic, where a gauss "pistol" fired goes through a reinforced walls and still hits it's taget.
You could most likely destroy todays tanks with an sc gauss pistol:p

Now compare that to the cinematic use of the gauss rifles vs the zerg, and do you still think that any of todays modern rifles would even made an scratch to a zerg?

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I think you may be giving the zerg a little too much credit.:D
In relation to how tough the zerg carapace is, I don't think the original sc1 blizzard cinematics are a good thing to go by, mainly because of the inconsistency with which they depict damage. Fore example, in the SC broodwar intro cinematic, it shows a marine unloading his gauss rifle at 2 zerglings to no effect. However in the opening cinematic from SC Ghost, where it shows a zerg swarm ambushing a terran battalion, the zerglings get taken out rather quickly and easily from gauss rifle fire. It is only their sheer numbers that overwhelm the terrans. Not only that, but in the novel 'shadow of the xel naga', a group of colonists are able to hold their own (to an extent) with simple farming implements.

If anything, what makes the zerg so tough, is a combination of resilience (the ability to take damage and keep going rather than the ability to stop actual damage) and the way their carapace is shaped. Notice how it's relatively smooth and curved. Such a design would deny a level striking surface, and have a good chance of deflecting incoming rounds. Even the scales/carapace of animals like the crocodile and tortoise have been known to deflect bullets in some instances because of this.

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Originally Posted by l33telboi

Remember that zerglings are biological creatures, with throats, eyes, and mouths. They aren't equally well protected over their entire bodies. The original cinematics do imply that at least the large head section is resistant to gauss rifle fired spikes, but if you fire at something like a leg? Or the (possibly) softer belly?.

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Oh yeah, and this.

I think the mangas/comics show the Impaler spikes being able to penetrate Zerg carapace easily because each panel has to be as dramatic/cool as it can, and spikes tearing through Zerg is a lot cooler than the bullets just bouncing off. Whereas in cinematics, it doesn't need that kind of dramatic flair because it's showing several minutes of continuous fighting.

As far as modern assault rifles penetrating even Zergling carapace, I have to agree with Perfecttear. I don't see modern rifles doing a lot of damage, unless they have Armor Penetration rounds. Granted I only know very (very) basic stuff about guns, so I could be wrong about the heavier assault rifle calibers.

I

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And it says on the wiki that the gauss rifle fires "spikes", something around 9 times the speed of the sound, capable of penetrating 5 cm of neosteel or a few meters of flesh or rock. And there was also that comic, where a gauss "pistol" fired goes through a reinforced walls and still hits it's taget.

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First of all let's get some facts straight. The Gauss rifle fires rounds similar to an AK47, except at mach 5, not mach 9. They use 8mm rounds, an AK47 uses 7.62mm rounds, it's pretty much just the speed that makes the difference.

Second of all, SC1 cinematics should not be taken seriously. You give the Zerg way too much credit. If a Zergling could withstand the same amount or even slightly less the bullets that the Hydralisk in "Battle of Amerigo" withstood, then the Terrans might as well have given up the fight long time ago. In no way should a Battlecruiser, especially something like the Norad, be taken down by 1 scourge. That's just unbelievable and stupid. How does a flying fortress get taken down by a single tiny bug that crashes into it? You know, if the Terrans were this weak the Overmind would have won a LONG time ago.

SC: Ghost is much more up to date than SC1 and depicted a much more realistic fight scene where Captain Bok's Gauss Magnum thing (w/e it was) was owning Zergling with 1-2 shots each, that's the way it should be done. Zerg overwhelm their enemies, they don't have the armour that a Terran marine has. Ultralisks and stuff do but they're a different case.

Interesting, i looked up all the wikis and this is the first time i see what rounds the gauss rifle has. Btw you forgot to list that the material of the round also makes a big difference in it's penetration capabilities, sometimes even more than speed ;)

Another thing, i've heard than a marines armor ofers almost no protection against an military gauss rifle. So by this logic it wouldn't mean that the zerg carapace is weak, it would be safe to compare it to neo steel ( i think marines also have neo steel), but it would mean that almost all factions weapons are very deadly, and not that their armors are veak.

One last questions. If you would increase al ingame units damage by a factor of ten, would that maybe make it lorevise acurate? :p

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Originally Posted by Perfecttear

Interesting, i looked up all the wikis and this is the first time i see what rounds the gauss rifle has.

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Maybe you weren't looking hard enough? It's been in the wiki in my signature for years.

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Another thing, i've heard than a marines armor ofers almost no protection against an military gauss rifle. So by this logic it wouldn't mean that the zerg carapace is weak, it would be safe to compare it to neo steel ( i think marines also have neo steel), but it would mean that almost all factions weapons are very deadly, and not that their armors are veak.

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All weapons in the setting seem to have great penetration abilities. For instance, zerglings have at least twice in the manga stabbed a marine through their armor, through their body, then out the armor on the other side. Zealots chop stuff up and even reaper pistols shoot right through walls.

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One last questions. If you would increase al ingame units damage by a factor of ten, would that maybe make it lorevise acurate? :p

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No. Marines would deal 60 damage a hit, which would insta-kill other marines. It probably takes a few shots. When Valerian Mengsk found himself going up against marines (he wasn't wearing CMC armor, note) he sprayed his opponents with bullets, trying to hit weak points in their armor. Otherwise single shots would have done the job.

Also, vehicle hit points are out of scale with infantry hit points, and while marauders are tough, they're probably not three times as tough as marines :)

I just remembered about the Zer'atai Dark templar tribe, who wears dead zerg carapace and bones on themself?
So looking at them, could you conclude that the zerg carapace is on pair with the other races armors? Or else it wouldn't make any sense why the Zer'atai would wear them, instead of the regular protoss armor.

Most Zerg strains have a lot of unprotected areas. There is soft tissue in the Hydralisk, where a bullet can easily pass-thru. They have armor, but the armor cannot cover them completely, and i doubt it's bulletproof, or the Terrans would be as good as defeated.

http://www.starcraft2.com/images/artwork/ss15.jpg

As a note, a Kinetic Energy Penetrator fired from a Battle Tank can travel at speeds of mach 5, and are rods made of Tungsten or Depleted Uranium, with 2 or 3 cm diameter and 50-60 cm long, weighting 18 Kg. Tank manufacturers had to resort to reactive armor to try to keep the Tank "safe" from this and other nasty stuff. No tank would survive a shot from those things on the sides or back without reactive armor.

A comparison of that vs the DU 8mm penetrator of the gauss rifles should make it obvious that a current tank shell would easily destroy most Zerg units.

I'd imagine it being not quite bulletproof but at the same time tough enough to make a difference. Something that would protect from pistol and shotgun rounds but would not withstand concenctrated fire from a gatling gun.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

First of all let's get some facts straight. The Gauss rifle fires rounds similar to an AK47, except at mach 5, not mach 9.

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I'm not trying to discredit you, but I could never find the source for the gauss rifle shooting bullets at the speed of mach 5. I've only seen the term 'hypersonic' used, which means a minimum of mach 5 with an upper limit mach 10.

Did a novel or manga specifically outline the "spikes" to travel at exactly mach 5?

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I'm not trying to discredit you, but I could never find the source for the gauss rifle shooting bullets at the speed of mach 5. I've only seen the term 'hypersonic' used, which means a minimum of mach 5 with an upper limit mach 10.

Did a novel or manga specifically outline the "spikes" to travel at exactly mach 5?

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No there haven't been any specific sources that I'm aware of. My bad, I always thought that Hypersonic speed referred specifically to mach 5 (and not above).

Yeah, i also wondered where you got mach 5 from. ;) I said mach 9, since i read that there exist a coilgun capable of theoreticaly fireing at mach 9 alredy today.