Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
Ability: Overlord dive
Energy Cost: 25-50, depending on balance
Effects: Vulnerable to ground attacks for the duration, stuck until time limit is up.
Research cost: 100/100 on Lair (meant for when AtA units are available)
Duration ability lasts: 15-45 seconds, depending on balance
Issues for balance:
1) This ability needs to last long enough to have an impact on the game and be useful in certain situations.
2) This ability needs to have a vulnerability, where if you use it wrong, it will hurt you, and I believe this ability does.
3) This ability is sort of macro management, as it directly impacts unit production, and is all about keeping your supply and not losing them as easily. Successful use of this will save you many overlords, which in turn save you many resources, and many larva, which is a major resource to zerg.
4) The ability has to be somewhat easy to manage, but at the same time shouldnt be like Land, lift off kind of easy. Overlords are meant to fly, so I believe it should only lift off or fly based on this use duration. The ability allows you the flexibility to save your overlords in immediate danger, but not a "always save overlords" kind of ability. If you can control the dropping and raising of the overlord, you can use that versality to rarely ever lose supply, while toss and terran dont have that at all. Submerged depots are still vulnerable to attack, and so are pylons.
However, zerg are considerably easier to damage doing a supply raid, and therefore, I believe this mechanic to be effective, needed, and useful.
The main scenario you'd use this for:
1) AtA units attacking your group of overlords - So, you move them away toward your base or units, dropping down each overlord which is being attacked just before it dies, thus saving the overlord and giving you time to reach it.
In combination with Speed, it may get you to a good spot a lot quicker, like around spore crawlers or GTA.
PS: I know other people have suggested an idea similar, or exactly.. I just like the idea...
Few other ideas I want considered for this, and discussed:
1) Should detection be reduced while in dive?
2) At the same time, maybe you can still drop while in dive?
3) During a drop you could use this to avoid GtA defense, Turrets/spore crawlers..
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
It would be funny seeing Overlords Graviton Beamed... but otherwise I don't know.
-Psi
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
I did add a few more things.. I'm interested to see if anyone thinks this should be available on both overlord and overseer, and if you should be able to still drop units while using this ability.
It would make for yet another use for it.
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
ive come to see vulnerable overlords as a racial quality of the zerg. this is soooo pigeoned holed. when else would u use this other than my overlords are being attacked by ATA.
i just dont really like the ability overall.
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
Phoenix - Anti Grav overlord back up, attack
Viking - Mech Mode
Corruptor - If really needed, could morph into Brood Lords.
Every other air unit can hit both ground and air.
On top of that, there isn't really much of a necessity for overlords to evade damage anyways. They should be protected in Zerg bases, and if not they have that nifty speed upgrade to keep em kiting enemy air for a good while. It's not like Overlords are hard to make.
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Triceron
Phoenix - Anti Grav overlord back up, attack
Viking - Mech Mode
Corruptor - If really needed, could morph into Brood Lords.
Every other air unit can hit both ground and air.
On top of that, there isn't really much of a necessity for overlords to evade damage anyways. They should be protected in Zerg bases, and if not they have that nifty speed upgrade to keep em kiting enemy air for a good while. It's not like Overlords are hard to make.
Overlords are not hard to make? Yeah... they only take 100 minerals, time, and valuable larva, and allow you to make units... If speed worked so great, why is it that it worked so horrible in sc1? Overlords get picked off in sc1 like its nothing... because it really is nothing to kill them...
The rush to AtA vs zerg is precisely the reason this would be needed, and since its a researched ability, it offers the choice to do so, but also requires the choice to do so if you want to better protect them against fast teching to AtA.
Neither of the other two races have to deal with easily lost supply, nor do they have to sacrifice a larva to increase that supply. Therefore overlord sniping can severely cripple the race, even with additional larva from larva inject. The larva injection balances the races, so lost larva and resources due to fast ata strategies against zerg creates an imbalance.
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
If Overlords are such easy, compelling targets for players, why is it that only in ZvP is there such a rush for air? Why don't you see Terrans rushing for Wraiths or whatever to take out Overlords?
Quote:
If speed worked so great, why is it that it worked so horrible in sc1? Overlords get picked off in sc1 like its nothing... because it really is nothing to kill them...
Where is the evidence for this claim? Yes, Overlords do die a lot, and certainly relative to other food sources, but thus far, this has not hurt the Zerg's ability to be functional in StarCraft.
Remember: the goal is balance, not equality.
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nicol Bolas
If Overlords are such easy, compelling targets for players, why is it that only in ZvP is there such a rush for air? Why don't you see Terrans rushing for Wraiths or whatever to take out Overlords?
Where is the evidence for this claim? Yes, Overlords do die a lot, and certainly relative to other food sources, but thus far, this has not hurt the Zerg's ability to be functional in StarCraft.
Remember: the goal is balance, not equality.
I feel like the reason for terran not rushing to wraiths is because of the strategies each race has in starcraft. Wraiths are very poor against hydras, and shoot slowly, giving them less ability to do a quick assault on the overlords. Additionally, the fact that overlords are detectors completely negate the entire appeal of a wraith. Wraiths are one of the least used units because goliaths are equally effective at killing both ground and air units, while they don't take away from the overall build that terran normally gets.
For the most part, M&M, Tanks, Goliaths, and Sci vessels are the most used units. When the starport is built, its usually in a rush to get science vessels, and thats it.
The entire point i was going for in making the ability have a time limit, and not be player controlled entirely, is the fact that I want overlord killing to be less easy, not rare.
However, the reasoning behind why I think an overlords death is so catastrophic, is this:
1) Larva is extremely important, and larva inject will be used to keep up with the other two races. Larva is completely race specific, and neither terran nor protoss have to worry about a third resource when losing their supply. They simply pay the minerals, and get it back. When terran lose a few depots, or protoss loses a few pylons, they simply click a worker and queue up a few more. Zerg can't queue up overlords, they have to build one when the larva is available. Yeah, you can build more at one time, however, you can with the other races too. Larva is the issue, because its vital to zerg keeping the advantage of numbers, which is what zerg is all about.
2) Zerg loses three things when an overlord is killed. It loses its dropship, its supply, and its detector. Overlord sniping is incredibly beneficial because it is so much more of a devastating blow to the zerg.
Every overlord killed is 100 minerals, however, every overseer killed is 150/100 in resources. When that overseer is killed you not only have to rebuild that overlord, but you have to re-upgrade that overlord to overseer to regain detection. The loss is significantly greater for zerg than for the other two races. IF a depot is killed, 100 minerals, period. If a pylon is killed, 100 minerals, period. All 3 lose a supply units worth of supply. Only zerg loses 1 larva, 50/100 more for each overseer, a dropship, and a detector.
Re: Overlord Dive ability: Mechanic to avoid easy targeting; sort of macro related
Um, Terran losing a few Depots might not be a biggie, but the Protoss losing a few Pylons is, because their whole industry depends on the things.
