Roachs regeneration - immortality

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Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade

The Roach doesn't "require" focus fire to kill, unless your units somehow automatically redistribute their fire in the worst possible way.

Let's look at the basic units first. The initial post in the thread breaks down the damage-vs-regen situation. But it completely fails to consider the cost issues. For each roach your opponent has, you will be able to afford 2 marines or 4 zerglings. Yep, that's enough to match (or, for zerglings) exceed the regen. But in a real combat, if both sides attack-move, your units will not distribute themselves equally agains the opponent's forces. They will attack the front line of his assault first. So if you had the following:

R MMM
RR MMM
RR MMM
R MMM

this is equal-cost force of Roaches vs Marines. Marines outrange roaches. The marines will target the first enemy that comes in range - soe in other words the front line of roaches will be attacked by all or most of the marines - this will be more than enough to overcome the regen and kill them.

It's even more ridiculous with Zerglings:

ZZZZ
RR ZZZZ
RR ZZZZ
RR ZZZZ
ZZZZ
ZZZZ

The zerglings will loop around to surround the roaches, and since they stack tightly there will be 4 or more Zerglings attacking each roach. Again, focus-fire will help but you will be able to kill the roaches unless he outnumbers you (in which case you lost anyway)

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I don't realy have the details and the real numbers on every unit stats etc.. Either did I play any kind of Alpha from Blizzard conferences.. So my judgment is based ONLY on people that write on these forums. I might be wrong but I still think that it is overpowered for few reasons.

The whole topic was about : 2 Marine with infinite life can never kill a Roach. But let be serious. Which zerg player would only bring 1 Roach?! I would at least bring 4-5 of them. And also, of course a terran could take 4 marine/3zealot/6 lings to focus on 1 of my roach. But I also can micro. And I would probably just kite your focusers just like I did with Goons in SC/BW. By the time you change target, the roach I brought back is ready to fight back. -.-

And I saw alot of comments too about : Immortals > Roaches, Hydras > Roaches. I might be wrong, but I think that all the units there are a bit higher in Tier tree, and so, a Roach rush would be very dangerous and would force any player to rush to this kind of units to be able to "survive" the roaches. Which is a bit weird, when there was a reason to bring a Tier 1 to the game.

Don't get me wrong, I love microing, I would probably find a way to kill them in a few minutes of playing. But units that need micro to be controled rather than killed is a way better unit design.

i write wayyyy tooo much :(

For other posts I didnt read :(

I want to keep the roach, and keep it on tier 1. Roach is a cool design and brings a new fresh life to the Tier1. Of course if it's balanced well.

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And I would probably just kite your focusers just like I did with Goons in SC/BW.

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Kiting doesn't work if your range is shorter than theirs. Just ask the 32 Marines and SCVs that Light lost to one Dragoon how well kiting works when your units are out-ranged. And considering that Roaches have 3 range rather than the 6 for Marines or Marauders, they're going to be taking a lot of fire just to get in their shots.

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And I saw alot of comments too about : Immortals > Roaches, Hydras > Roaches.

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Well, Hydras have already been brought down to Tier 1, so they're the same Tier as Roaches. And I don't recall anyone talking about Immortals; it's mostly been about Marauders and Stalkers, both of which are effective at dealing with Roaches.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Kiting doesn't work if your range is shorter than theirs. Just ask the 32 Marines and SCVs that Light lost to one Dragoon how well kiting works when your units are out-ranged. And considering that Roaches have 3 range rather than the 6 for Marines or Marauders, they're going to be taking a lot of fire just to get in their shots.

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Actually, in your example, the Protoss player was also using Probes for combat and lost quite a number of them. Furthermore, you're completely forgetting the time component when facing Roaches. Kiting them with a longer range doesn't work since the time you spend running away (and switching targets) gives them more time to regenerate.

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Originally Posted by Nicol Bolas

Kiting doesn't work if your range is shorter than theirs. Just ask the 32 Marines and SCVs that Light lost to one Dragoon how well kiting works when your units are out-ranged. And considering that Roaches have 3 range rather than the 6 for Marines or Marauders, they're going to be taking a lot of fire just to get in their shots.

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Actually i agree with Peasant on this one...It doesnt help if Roach really regen that much...

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the Protoss player was also using Probes for combat and lost quite a number of them.

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That was before the Dragoon got range. Once it did, it was basically able to kite the Marines forever (with aid from the Shield Battery).

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Kiting them with a longer range doesn't work since the time you spend running away

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You suggested that Roaches could kite Marines, and I pointed out that this is nonsense, as you can't kite someone with more range than you. I didn't say you should be kiting Roaches with Marines. Killing Roaches with Marines is a simple matter of focus fire, nothing more.

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Roach really regen that much

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What much? Did nobody pay attention to BR2? Roach regen is variable; it seems to be faster when they're underground. Above ground it is maybe 5 Hp per second or so.

To be honest that Terran player sucked ass anyway.

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Originally Posted by Pandonetho

To be honest that Terran player sucked ass anyway.

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Don't you mean that the zerg player sucked ass, the zerg player was really bad in comparison to the terran,he had early economic advantage and lost it, he didn't tech, he failed to expand, even tho he had plenty of time and opurtunities when he had map control, not to mention his micro.

I'm talking about the video where the Terran player loses to 1 dragoon.

His attempts at micro were pretty sad, his strategy was pathetic crappy as well.

The Protoss player winning was due more on part of the T player being terrible than him being good.

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Just ask the 32 Marines and SCVs that Light lost to one Dragoon

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I love that Dragoon... though I’m sure Reach lent it to him. :p