Seeking opinions: What type of gameplay WOULD make SC2 fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by Gifted

Have you watched Muta Micro in SC2? Reread the Title of the thread. ^_^

EDIT: While I understand that you're trying to explain WHY you enjoy it, I think it's important that we don't digress on this subject too much, otherwise it's an exact duplicate of the other thread I linked.

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What type of gameplay WOULD make SC2 fun to watch?


The same gameplay things that made SC1 fun to watch, like mechanically difficult Muta micro.


I see what your saying so ill think focus on other gameplay examples that I feel would make SC2 fun to watch.

1) Back and forth camera shifting gameplay= what the specator sees is simpler than what the player is doing

2) Fast paced with many more options than possible to do= specator has appreciation for prioritization the player is making

3) Gameplay where its easy for players to make mistakes= allows for unexpected plays, massive battle shifts, dependant upon player prioritization

4) Army size linked to player skill instead of automated with all players having roughly same size army= allows one player to have a larger army then the other

5) Gameplay that allows a player who loses much of their army to focus on rebuilding their army and beat back the opponent= allows a player to come back from the dead

1. Underdog victory

Some of the most gripping matches I've watched are when a player is taken to the verge of a defeat, but makes a miraculous comeback with few resources. The situation becomes tense, and this is where the real 'balance' of the game kicks in, seeing how a few well-microed units can do against an opponent with complete map control.

2. Abilities/attacks that can be avoided

I think SC2 need to have enough weaknesses to exploit through micro - IE Lurker's attack being able to be dodged by marines, damage avoidance through dropship trick. This is why I don't like abilities like Snipe, which is simply an instant attack on cooldown. Not fun to watch a ghost pick off units with snipe compared to perfectly placed D8's or Nukes. You know the D8/nuke is avoidable, and it's what gets you curious to see if the player is able to move out in time or not.

3. Incredible APM

Nuff said. SC2 has to have abilities that are easy to use, hard to master. Seeing someone use lockdown on multiple targets in the matter of seconds, seeing someone micro reaver drops, or even dancing mutas in and out is fun to watch. Knowing these can only be pulled off by the best of the best in both strategy and execution is what made SC1 so interesting.

4. Trump Cards

Whatever it may be, it has the potential of turning the tide, or instant victory. To watch a player tech up to these powerful units or abilities instead of making an army of earlier tier units is the kind of risk that we like to see.

I disagree with the idea that mechanical difficulty is the core of what makes something entertaining to watch. While it certainly adds to your enjoyment if you happen to know that what you just witnessed was, until now, believed to be physically impossible... this is far from the essence of the thing.

Consider all the casual gamers who watch replays, like my RL friends who watch SC2 BRs and love every minute. They've played maybe 20 SC games in their entire lives. What do you think one of these friends is going to enjoy seeing more, David Kim unload three of the Hellions to distract the Stalkers and catch up, saving all but one Hellion, or... watching the Nukes drop? Hell, they won't even notice the significance of what he did with the Hellions; why he did it, and how.

But they're watchers of the game just the same, and more often than not whatever gets their attention will get ours, too; SC rarely has big explosions for no reason, and SC2 is carrying on this tradition. That central factor must be whatever it is that works on both audiences, and appreciation of game mechanics is simply an added bonus, if a very nice one, for us.


Based on this criteria I'd imagine something like...
- dynamic, full of twists & turns (BR3, going back and forth, back and forth, like a pendulum)
- un-missable moments where tables turn (Terrible Damage, Nukes being dropped, Mind Control on Colossi, etc)


It's probably woefully incomplete, but these seem to be the sort of things anyone at all can readily appreciate.

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Originally Posted by pure.Wasted

I disagree with the idea that mechanical difficulty is the core of what makes something entertaining to watch. While it certainly adds to your enjoyment if you happen to know that what you just witnessed was, until now, believed to be physically impossible... this is far from the essence of the thing.

Consider all the casual gamers who watch replays, like my RL friends who watch SC2 BRs and love every minute. They've played maybe 20 SC games in their entire lives. What do you think one of these friends is going to enjoy seeing more, David Kim unload three of the Hellions to distract the Stalkers and catch up, saving all but one Hellion, or... watching the Nukes drop? Hell, they won't even notice the significance of what he did with the Hellions; why he did it, and how.

But they're watchers of the game just the same, and more often than not whatever gets their attention will get ours, too; SC rarely has big explosions for no reason, and SC2 is carrying on this tradition. That central factor must be whatever it is that works on both audiences, and appreciation of game mechanics is simply an added bonus, if a very nice one, for us.


Based on this criteria I'd imagine something like...
- dynamic, full of twists & turns (BR3, going back and forth, back and forth, like a pendulum)
- un-missable moments where tables turn (Terrible Damage, Nukes being dropped, Mind Control on Colossi, etc)


It's probably woefully incomplete, but these seem to be the sort of things anyone at all can readily appreciate.

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I have a prediction that Nukes are going to lose allot of their WOW factor as soon as everyone can do it.

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I have a prediction that Nukes are going to lose allot of their WOW factor as soon as everyone can do it.

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I concur.

However, hopefully the professional players find a more creative and difficult way to utilise nukes.

Although - I still believe this nuke is better than the SC1 nuke because in SC1... waiting 5000000 games to finally watch Boxer pull off a nuke on someone, that isn't really worth the fact that nukes are useless to practically everyone else.

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Originally Posted by ArcherofAiur

I have a prediction that Nukes are going to lose allot of their WOW factor as soon as everyone can do it.

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Everyone can use a Siege Tank or a Reaver to blow up 10 workers in one hit, too. That doesn't mean that you can't see the entire room-full of Koreans hold their breath for two seconds when it happens.

No one is going to care that you dropped a Nuke. Everyone is going to care that your Nuke just took out 10 Supply Depots that had been foolishly placed in a bunch, or an entire high yield expansion despite its Planetary Fortress.

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Based on this criteria I'd imagine something like...
- dynamic, full of twists & turns (BR3, going back and forth, back and forth, like a pendulum)
- un-missable moments where tables turn (Terrible Damage, Nukes being dropped, Mind Control on Colossi, etc)

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Really, I think the thing that hurts BRs viewability the most is that they don't have a clone of David Kim. He basically rolls over everyone in all the games. 1-sided matches can be interesting to some degree, but they don't mean much in the grand scheme of things.

There's also the simple fact that the game isn't being widely played. We see a few games here and there, but that's it.

So basically, what I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with SC2. It doesn't need any new mechanics or whatever to make it fun to watch. If you're not finding it fun to watch now, that's got more to do with the limited player experience and relative immaturity (and lack of understanding) of the metagame. It isn't something that can be fixed by messing with the game.

It's like a joke. It's better if you're surprised by it, than if it's predictable.

There's nothing wrong if it's not fun to watch yet, the game is far from release. We know there's inbalances.

Graphically the game has been improved dramatically. I remember when people were complaining at the release of every screen-shot batch that the game didn't look well. Then people saw the videos and the animation shone through. The game was adjusted by Samwise and went through many iterations.

Just wait the gameplay has yet to shine, we're going into Beta soon, we're in a closed shell right now.

I for one would like better camera controls for spectating. Ability to zoom in and zoom out further than the average player can see. Ability to enlarge the minimap to fill the screen. Ability to have free control of the camera (rotate, altitude etc) And have fluid transitions between one spot and another.

For instance, right now, watch BRs and watch the Protoss announcement trailers. Look at how fluid the camera work is in the protoss announcement. There should be some accelerate to the cameras or some sort of smooth, right now too jittery.

These should all be options available to a game caster.