How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

You have yet to devise a new motivation for the Zerg. The thought process you shared boiled down to shutting down any possible conflict, which defeats the point of the game. This is the exact same trap that Blizzard fell into. Every single game has ended in the destruction of the main instigator of that game's conflict, and the next installment has always made up a new antagonist whole cloth. This has given the series a very sloppy, unrealistic backstory that has more in common with the filler episodes of anime like Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z.

If the franchise has any hope of a future, it will either be doomed to endless filler sequels that pull new villains out of their ass or it will retcon all that bullshit to give a static backdrop for constant warfare.

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I hope you know that if you truly wanted the Overmind back it's actually not that hard even if we're to use the SC2 lore, Mislagnissa.

All you have to do is look back to WoL Stetmann's logs on the Zerg research. One of the entries had said the following:

Another breakthrough, and this one scares me. I mapped my way through the DNA of some brain tissue, peering back thousands of years, and I isolated the strain from which the zerg Overmind was derived. Not enough to clone the Overmind, but I could follow this strand to gain insight into how it controlled the zerg.

Under that logic, creating another Overmind would actually be very easy (remember the Raiders didn't have the resources for such an enterprise). All you really need is to do is pick up where NCO left off and have the Defenders of Man do it, bring another Overmind back, and then have this bite them in the ass as they couldn't control it and it turned on them.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

I am sure there are any number of ways to write the story such that they have a fighting chance. Reduce the damage caused by the initial invasion, keep the remaining extermination forces fairly small and slow paced, developing weapons based on studies of Zerg biology, using psychic warfare to turn the Zerg against one another, etc.

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I have no doubt that this is what's been done already. It seems to inform how the Terrans seem to be impervious to any consequences of the damage done to them so far. regardless, you have to concede that it's all retroactive continuity (not using the term in a negative connotation, I must add) though.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

Otherwise, there's no reason to include them in the first place if they don't meaningfully contribute to the plot. To tell a story that is compelling, logically consistent, frugal, and longer than two seconds, we need to trample over your complaints about canon. Sorry! :(

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I would like to think that any type of fiction isn't just about the plot and that what makes something compelling and consistent isn't tied solely to that. The Terrans are interesting in and of themselves, not because they serve a specific role in the plot (or rather lack of in this case). Afterall, Rebel Yell is quite interesting as a stand-alone and you yourself have criticised the one thing that actually does tie the Terrans to the Sc1 plot as a whole, was something forced and contrived anyway (having Kerrigan actually be assimilated into the Swarm and not killed as was thought in New Gettysburg). Really, who's to stop anyone else saying that it's not just as contrived and forced if you use those retcons you mentioned above to include the Terrans more into the "plot"?

One can easily lose your self in all the machinations of the plot and I think that Sc2 is testament to how weak that story is due to how everything seems forced to cohere to some grander plot. For all its weaknesses and how it's characters are stretched thin despite the apparent focus on them, Sc2's best moments are often those that don't even relate to the plot at all and they mostly involve Terrans (given that two-thirds of it is about Terran characters/matters anyway and yes, I do include Kerrigan as a Terran in this particular regard).

Mislagnissa, you have to understand that not all of us want things to be locked in an endless all-out war. Sooner or later it would become too boring even on the zerg end. For example, let's pretend Blizzard decided to bring the zerg back to their old roots, and SC2 ended with a new Overmind being created and Kerrigan kicked off the swarm, leaving the zerg to pick up where they left off from the 1st Overmind's death by Tassadar. Then what would you make to make the zerg different in SC3? (Since the Overmind still wanted to assimilate the Protoss people)

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

I hope you know that if you truly wanted the Overmind back it's actually not that hard even if we're to use the SC2 lore, Mislagnissa.

All you have to do is look back to WoL Stetmann's logs on the Zerg research. One of the entries had said the following:

Another breakthrough, and this one scares me. I mapped my way through the DNA of some brain tissue, peering back thousands of years, and I isolated the strain from which the zerg Overmind was derived. Not enough to clone the Overmind, but I could follow this strand to gain insight into how it controlled the zerg.

Under that logic, creating another Overmind would actually be very easy (remember the Raiders didn't have the resources for such an enterprise). All you really need is to do is pick up where NCO left off and have the Defenders of Man do it, bring another Overmind back, and then have this bite them in the ass as they couldn't control it and it turned on them.

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That is using a retcon to reverse another retcon. In SC1 the Overmind was a bodiless entity created by the telepathic communication between Zerg. It assumed a body for the narrative purpose of allowing the Zerg to be defeated, presumably by causing brain damage to all the Zerg at once much like simultaneously severing the nerve cords of all Protoss. The fact that the Overmind never needed a body suggested that it might return at some point in the future simply as a result of the Zerg healing themselves. Brood War and beyond forgot this and acted if as the Overmind was always a physical entity, as shown by Stetmann's statement that it could be potentially cloned. This makes about as much sense as saying the Khala and the Psi Matrix can be cloned, because the Overmind and Zerg are a biological and superior version of that.

This sort of idiotic retconning based on exaggerating minor features of previous installments has a name: brain bugs. The Zerg fell victim to the same fate as the Borg, only worse because the Borg at least stayed imperialistic conquerors for their entire existence rather than seeking peace for no gain.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

I have no doubt that this is what's been done already. It seems to inform how the Terrans seem to be impervious to any consequences of the damage done to them so far. regardless, you have to concede that it's all retroactive continuity (not using the term in a negative connotation, I must add) though.

I would like to think that any type of fiction isn't just about the plot and that what makes something compelling and consistent isn't tied solely to that. The Terrans are interesting in and of themselves, not because they serve a specific role in the plot (or rather lack of in this case). Afterall, Rebel Yell is quite interesting as a stand-alone and you yourself have criticised the one thing that actually does tie the Terrans to the Sc1 plot as a whole, was something forced and contrived anyway (having Kerrigan actually be assimilated into the Swarm and not killed as was thought in New Gettysburg). Really, who's to stop anyone else saying that it's not just as contrived and forced if you use those retcons you mentioned above to include the Terrans more into the "plot"?

One can easily lose your self in all the machinations of the plot and I think that Sc2 is testament to how weak that story is due to how everything seems forced to cohere to some grander plot. For all its weaknesses and how it's characters are stretched thin despite the apparent focus on them, Sc2's best moments are often those that don't even relate to the plot at all and they mostly involve Terrans (given that two-thirds of it is about Terran characters/matters anyway and yes, I do include Kerrigan as a Terran in this particular regard).

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The entire premise of Starcraft was an excuse to force the three races into war by devising an elaborate backstory to do just that (the Zerg want to conquer all, the Judicators order genocide of Terrans, various civil strife), and the rest of the plot should have arisen organically from that. However, every game has systematically shut off or forgotten existing avenues of conflict, forcing every subsequent installment to pull a villain out of its ass with little or no support in previous lore.

For example, Amon was basically just a stupider, unsympathetic version of the original Overmind. The Overmind was retconned into a hero, even though his motivation was still the same. Of course, the one who called him a hero was actually a member of the faction that opposed Amon's faction... which raises a number of disturbing implications about Ouros' faction. Was Ouros' faction planning to eat everyone all along?

For another example, the Terrans magically forgot that the Protoss are racists who think nothing of casually glassing inhabited planets and have never sought justice for their billions of victims. This is like saying that Israel and Nazi Germany decided to become best friends to fight Soviet Russia, rather than being distracted by Russia and then immediately returning to killing each other after Russia falls (yes, I know that analogy makes no sense, just run with it).

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

Mislagnissa, you have to understand that not all of us want things to be locked in an endless all-out war. Sooner or later it would become too boring even on the zerg end.

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The entire premise of Starcraft is perpetual war, like a bargain bin version of Warhammer 40k. It's a guaranteed recipe for an endless franchise: you could make a gazillion campaigns taking place during the first contact war alone. Resolving the conflict is stupid, because then the franchise would end or you would have to make up some lame new antagonist to replace the one you killed off, as has happened in every game so far.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

For example, let's pretend Blizzard decided to bring the zerg back to their old roots, and SC2 ended with a new Overmind being created and Kerrigan kicked off the swarm, leaving the zerg to pick up where they left off from the 1st Overmind's death by Tassadar. Then what would you make to make the zerg different in SC3? (Since the Overmind still wanted to assimilate the Protoss people)

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Absolutely nothing. The Zerg are perfect in their original form (literally, the xel'naga said they were the ultimate life form), they just need more detailing in their broods and characters. The original point of this thread was to explore what those broods could be like.

I did say I would love to see a campaign centered around a Zerg mining brood. Imagine what new breeds they might have specialized for mining.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

Absolutely nothing. The Zerg are perfect in their original form (literally, the xel'naga said they were the ultimate life form), they just need more detailing in their broods and characters. The original point of this thread was to explore what those broods could be like.

I did say I would love to see a campaign centered around a Zerg mining brood. Imagine what new breeds they might have specialized for mining.

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That's just it. I wouldn't have them remain exactly the same forever. Sooner or later you have to give them a different purpose or the audience would get bored. Granted if we take the xenomorph from the alien series, that hasn't changed in decades and people have accepted it, but still.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

That is using a retcon to reverse another retcon. In SC1 the Overmind was a bodiless entity created by the telepathic communication between Zerg. It assumed a body for the narrative purpose of allowing the Zerg to be defeated, presumably by causing brain damage to all the Zerg at once much like simultaneously severing the nerve cords of all Protoss. The fact that the Overmind never needed a body suggested that it might return at some point in the future simply as a result of the Zerg healing themselves. Brood War and beyond forgot this and acted if as the Overmind was always a physical entity, as shown by Stetmann's statement that it could be potentially cloned. This makes about as much sense as saying the Khala and the Psi Matrix can be cloned, because the Overmind and Zerg are a biological and superior version of that.

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Yes which was a shame for the Overmind having no form until the Aiur invasion in putting the khaydarin crystal in the temple's place. I however wasn't entirely convinced he needed to build himself a body, or at least not in the way we saw.

For your theory of needed to return like the Zerg healing themselves, that would have made the Overmind needing a body pointless, since that would mean it could be killed, whereas without a body it couldn't. Of course I never understood why it built itself a body only AFTER the Aiur invasion, and never bothered trying to prior to that, or for that matter trying to do it before even encountering the first Protoss

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

That's just it. I wouldn't have them remain exactly the same forever. Sooner or later you have to give them a different purpose or the audience would get bored. Granted if we take the xenomorph from the alien series, that hasn't changed in decades and people have accepted it, but still.

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Replace "xenomorph" with romantic comedy, drama, science fiction, or any other imaginable genre of writing and maybe you'll realize how utterly wrong you are. The Zerg were only interesting because of their original quest for perfection, which was suitably alien and distinguished them from typical villains. Removing that removed all their agency and there's nothing suitable to replace it.

Since you seem fundamentally unable to understand or appreciate the Zerg, or the concept of art, try imagining how your suggestion would work for Terrans. Imagine how the Terrans would be if they suddenly stopped pursuing everything that made them human: they stopped working, reproducing, making art, and pretty much just sat down and waited for death. The Zerg's quest for perfection, their view of all other life as either useful genetic material or food for their offspring makes them fundamentally Zerg, just like humanity's pursuit of life, liberty, property and happiness makes us human.

*Applause for Misla* Everything you've said over the past few posts (especially regarding the Zerg) is something I and others have alluded to at least once before.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

Replace "xenomorph" with romantic comedy, drama, science fiction, or any other imaginable genre of writing and maybe you'll realize how utterly wrong you are. The Zerg were only interesting because of their original quest for perfection, which was suitably alien and distinguished them from typical villains. Removing that removed all their agency and there's nothing suitable to replace it.

Since you seem fundamentally unable to understand or appreciate the Zerg, or the concept of art, try imagining how your suggestion would work for Terrans. Imagine how the Terrans would be if they suddenly stopped pursuing everything that made them human: they stopped working, reproducing, making art, and pretty much just sat down and waited for death. The Zerg's quest for perfection, their view of all other life as either useful genetic material or food for their offspring makes them fundamentally Zerg, just like humanity's pursuit of life, liberty, property and happiness makes us human.

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If you wanted to go on the terran size with the whole working matter that's a fundamental part of life, I hope you know that wasn't always the case. The whole "work being an integral" part of life has only been around for like 325 years, since the industrial age. The whole fundamentally being human concept requires you to go back to the evolution of technology, and what we did prior to those things. On the other hand, your part of the making art is something that's been a part of us for much longer.

Having said that I felt that this is merely something the zerg were sorely lacking: the evolution of their mentality.

Steering the thread back to the original topic of brood and breed composition, I have found a number of web pages which give random fan's interpretations of the how the broods are composed at different periods in time and brief profiles of the cerebrates.

• https://forums.spacebattles.com/posts/615573/
• http://forumwars.wikifoundry.com/page/The+Cerebrates
• http://starcraftd6.tripod.com/Zerg.html
• http://sclegacy.com/index.php/featur...haracter-index
• http://encyklopedie.starcraftcz.com/zerg/heroes.htm

I also mentioned my idea for mining broods, even an entire campaign from the POV of a mining brood. I mean, we do have a SC2 "Brood" custom campaign about the "breeder" Az'khar trying to survive during the brood wars or whatever the conflict was. That's more creative than the typical evil overlord, right?

Battlereports.com has some Starcraft reports, at least one of which is formatted to depict a battle from a cerebrate's perspective: http://www.battlereports.com/viewrep...reportnum=2079. I really like the author's attempt at xenofiction.

Artist "Phil" @ http://phill-art.deviantart.com has devised three interesting new Zerg breeds: the blightling, encroacher and bane creeper.

Some other fanart I found:

• Multiple ideas: https://web.archive.org/web/20140417...nd-unit-ideas/
• "Triolisk": https://www.artstation.com/artwork/95aky
• Zerg "carrier": https://www.artstation.com/artwork/w65wX
• Flying bomber: http://natpen.deviantart.com/art/Fly...cept-456023606
• Zerg artilery and a parasite attack flyer, by "bugball" : https://www.celestialheavens.com/for...191297#p191297
• Artist "Darethus" has a few ideas for structures based on the SC1 alpha/beta, and some SC2 ideas like the baneling nest morphing from the spawning pool: https://darethus.deviantart.com/gall...&edit=0&q=Zerg

The carnage mod introduces the octolisk and wurm, which are similar to the corruptor and ash worm in SC2: http://www.samods.org/starcraft/carnage

Sickel introduces a number of new Zerg, like the "underlord" and "cerebellum": http://www.staredit.net/topic/329/#1

I have also entertained the idea of new Zerg breeds. A lot of my ideas were also thought up by others, too. For example

• the SC2 queen retconned into SC1 as a failed experiment to clone Protoss based on the xel'naga genetic histories the Zerg acquired. After building a queen's nest/infestation pit (they're the same thing, really), the queen may morph into a brood queen.
• The "underlord," a subterranean variant of the overlord. I saw this both in Sickel and Enumerate.
• Creep colony mutations that mimic unit attacks, like hydralisk spines or lurker spines or SC2's scourge nests.
• Strains created from Terran psychic potential, like the unfortunately-named Pararius, Conexus, Commisceo in Enumerate (see my sig), or the Changeling in SC2 (created as a byproduct of adding Terran genes to the Overseer).

Sorry if I mentioned these in previous posts, but we've gone way off topic by this point.

Back to the original topic; I tend to see anything in-editor as existing in cannon (exception of complete jokes like the carbot zergling) as existing in the universe, just less common or not used by the main forces, or as a prototype, experiment, etc.

This lets me justify a slightly more sensical air/space force.

"Capital Ships"
-Leviathans of various sizes, most averaging around 10 clicks but larger and smaller individuals exist with degrees of diversity. (Egg-carriers as "carriers" - think the massive egg sacs on the ingame model, More armored versions as battleships, and other roles depending on the size and ratious of tentacles, bile-swarm launchers and other offensive organs and appendages)

-Behemoths as smaller transports/frigates, more space-efficient then leviathans for transport given the lack of combat role. (Robears size chart image of the unknown from "The Warp" is my accepted Behemoth)

-*Swarm Guardians as a smaller combat organism, a space siege-engine serving similar to a dreadnaught in mass-effect, poking at range. Described as "almost the size of a battlecruiser" so probably quite large, at least 400-ish meters long. Probably would serve as orbital-bombardment weapons to crack heavy fortresses that just are not worth it in ground units. Guardians have a splash of 27.4-meters with their weapon, so something orders of magnitude more massive should pack a scary punch. Inciendary and explosive spores are used and smaller anti-fighter "munitions". I can see inciendary spores being used on a city from orbit. Able to fire from their maw, along with spawn broodlings from the pods along their carapace, along with a missile-like creature. Variants include a slim, armored version and a version with bilbous membrane pods along its length, presumable more spawn-oriented.

-*Dracolisk, the large zerg organism with a similar shape to a swarm guardian, though very different details and name. May have a similar relationship as mutalisk/guardians. Specialized primarily for air-to-air combat with enemy vessels rather then the swarm-guardians long-range or limited roles, much more maneuverable it is able to effectively duel with enemy capital ships at close range.


"Support Units"
-Overlords in all shapes and forms, the transport-support-detector classic we all know from sc1, specialized detectors such as overseers, specialized transports as seen in LotV and all the various mutations throughout, combat-support versions such as Spotters also exist. Mutations ranging from creep-dropping to hive spores used for infestation/colony spreading. Bio-matter stores for changelings and creating contaminated structures all exist. Limited sighting of spotters integrating stasis tech from destroyed enemies and powering it with their own bio-energy.

-Queens/Brood Queens, brood war style. Needs no introduction other then some strains having glaive wurm capabilities. Later forms get more interesting as they inherit the abilities of their ground-based sisters, as well as the fungal organisms from the borboru matriarch and detachable eyestalks like the viper.

-Vipers, battlefield manipulation. Wings limit movement out of atmosphere as they presumably need to use a gas-based thruster system like mutalisks. Not big enough to pull capital ships, or anything less massive in space. On the ground muscle density helps them be heavy lifters. Various microorganism types to create blinding clouds and the more hideous disabling clouds as well as anti-air parasite swarms. Some strains retain the acid-spore attacks of their primal base as a defense mechanism, while other have detachable eyestalks for limited stealth-detection. Capable of "leeching" energy from a variety of sources including zerg organisms and colony structures, and resources such as minerals. A proto-viper more closely resembling the primal strain saw limited action, nicknamed the "Cobra" due to the blinding abilities and green colouration.

-*Tentacle Monster, in in-editor model based off the BW-style queen, though much thicker, with additional wing-layers and. One unused incomplete ability allowing it to grab 4 enemy units. Presumably larger then a queen and bordering on capital scale by having a reference as a "air siege unit" for the korhal invasion. Probably packs a similar set of tentacles to spine crawlers or leviathans. Not too sure on abilities, having heavily extendable tentacles is still less range then terran weapon systems, so maybe a close-range "grappler" in space combat or having enough muscle mass to throw around things thor+ weight on the ground.

-Spore Best/*Zerg Artillery, a concept-art and model creature, similar in shape but having slight differences such as spores... Probably not too big based on the role, guardian-sized. Serve as an aerial artillery piece similar to guardians as only a defensive measure. The spore beast is able to produce large amounts of various spore types, be they creep spores to facilitate spreading of the colony, or versions used by other organisms for combat. Also explains the guardian-style acid spore attacks. Given the lack of spore pods on its back the "Zerg Artillery" is likely a more armored version, an unused editor behavior gives it a death effect, so possibly the spores are still contained within the unit as it enters combat


"Assault"
-Mutalisks, common in swarms on the ground and semi-suitable in space with their gas-thrusters. Doesn't matter when they get shot down when you have enough to blot out the windows on the enemy fleet. Lots of variations seen. Glaive wurms, acid spores and spines all seen as weapons on the opivisor/stinger, along with varying degrees of wings and wing structures. Lots of battlefield-specific mutations such as glaive wurm variants, ingrained viper and brood lord sequences and abilities, engorged reproductive tracks for larger wurms, scale/carapace differences for different protection. Specific Skrylings seen later as individual transports/airhooks later.

-Scourge. Suicide bombers that perch on larger ships and act as living missiles in space, or glide in atmosphere. Wing-structure an unused SC2 animations indicates they can land/walk, though unwieldy like a bat. Variations include a larval form spawned from specialist nests used as a defensive measure, and smaller versions that load onto ground-units and infested vehicles as missiles. Some variations taking an appearance to an over-sized baneling spawn, laden with the reactive compound rather then their usual plasma-capable explosives.

-Devourers, the heavy form of mutalisks armed with spore-laden corrosive acid. Mutated from the mutalisk by further bulking it up along with adding more insectile traits assimilated from various flying insects, such as the outer-wing beetle-shell to cover the wings. Some mutations include improving the spores to diffuse better into membranes, allowing them to seep into gaps in enemy units and remain longer, a engorged maw and reproductive tract for heavier weapons loads, and improving the tracking abilities in the spores so they can seek in on ground targets in a dense backdrop rather then the emptiness of the sky/space. A spine-like weapon exists, presumably on devourers who keep the stinger rather then opivisor.

-Guardians, the damage-orientated long-range siege bomber. Heavier then mutalisks and slower, but still surprisingly maneuverable. Attacks are heavy enough to threaten reinforced structures and have a splash effect of 30 yards which gives them very powerful ground-clearing abilities. Mutations include prolonged spore range and the ability to internally house scourge to release at air targets (SC Alpha avengers) Also hints at an alternate weapon, a bug-like missile. Primal guardians are also seen to have spores with improved tracking but less damage potential to use against air targets.
-Brood Lords, the alternate to the guardian. Used to siege a target without rendering it useless. Larger broodling forms can be fired heavily enough to damage vehicles, and are able to deal with infantry easily. Along with corralling civilians into areas where they can be infested later and used rather then disintegrated by Guardian fire. Lots of variation seen mostly in the carapace, green-glows on some grown from mutalisks rather then corruptors, porous cariledge ridges to allow better airflow for propulsion, aquatic-swimming modifications allowing them to serve as submersibles.

-Corruptor, the primary heavy-hitting fighter of Zerg fleets, their gravitic locomotion allows them to move through space maneuverably compared to mutalisks relying on gas jets to engage fighters and capital ships. Brain material serving as ablative armor provides protection from energy weapons allowing them to deal with point-defense turrets, while they hit targets with tracking parasite spores, or heavier-hitting but non-tracking versions. Corruptors are also able to produce a variety of caustic compound depending on the strain, corruptive material that bonds and eats into armor, caustic spray that is fired at high-pressure to damage stationary targets, "corruption bombs" to use against ground targets made by mixing the spore larva and caustic compounds. Rarer strains have been seen to use compounds that spread zerg infestation or overseer corruption to crippled targets and ground structures, along with a extendable appendage to siphon nutrients and minerals. Occasionally corrupters have been seen to land and scurry around with their tentacles, but such occurrences are rare as it is not suited to the creature's strengths.

"Spawned"
-*Bone waps are small, melee-attacking organism's seen spawned from placed egg clusters rather than larva, swooping to attack targets with their mandibles and hardened tail in swarms.

-*Fungal Swarm, are suicidal creatures spawned by modified zerg buildings and shriekers as defense methods, resembling large glowing flies they fly into enemy units and explode, imparting the kinetic energy of the strike with the viscous zerg acid inside.

That's a good idea, Nolan. It makes the world feel bigger.

With regards to the tentacle monster, you'd think that would just eventually be something the Viper could evolve itself into. Blizzard made it clear that regarding the abduct ability, the viper's muscle was strong enough to pull battlecruisers, despite being smaller than the terran capital ships. Unless, of course, your version of the viper is just a prototype version of what the tentacle monster could be.

Viper can not possibly pull battlecruiser of any class in a vaccum, unless the plane-sized zerg can somehow increase its mass to pull in a 560-meter metal ship such as a Minotaur Battlecruiser. Frigates or dropships maybe, but more likely it can pull itself to cruisers to get close, then pull in smaller organisms to allow them access.

As for the "Tentacle Monster" It has similar structures to the Brood Queen, possibly its a further twisting of the brood-keeper genome at lest for the physical structure.

There's also a really weird model that was in the HotS Beta Editor for the Zerg artillery labeled as its egg, obviously incomplete given it was a splicing of a leviathan, overlord and lurker bits.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

Viper can not possibly pull battlecruiser of any class in a vaccum, unless the plane-sized zerg can somehow increase its mass to pull in a 560-meter metal ship such as a Minotaur Battlecruiser. Frigates or dropships maybe, but more likely it can pull itself to cruisers to get close, then pull in smaller organisms to allow them access.

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Not a SINGLE viper, Nolanstar. But how many MULTIPLE vipers you think will it be possible to pull a battlecruiser?

In atmosphere, Hundreds+ depending on what the cruiser is doing, presumably enough could latch on to alter the flight path, but considering BV's can push and accelerate their mass in atmo without issues their engines can probably deal with the strain. In a vacuum probably more depending on the strength of the gas propulsion. Also prime targets for a missile barrage considering they would have to clump-up to adequately put the net force into a useful direction.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

In atmosphere, Hundreds+ depending on what the cruiser is doing, presumably enough could latch on to alter the flight path, but considering BV's can push and accelerate their mass in atmo without issues their engines can probably deal with the strain. In a vacuum probably more depending on the strength of the gas propulsion. Also prime targets for a missile barrage considering they would have to clump-up to adequately put the net force into a useful direction.

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I'll take this into consideration once I'm done gathering my ideas then....

What are you doing, writing a story? (If you don't mind me asking)

Consider though, it is the Zerg Swarm The loss of hundreds of individuals is nothing and they can afford to throw millions of units at a fortification. Left alone on a planet they can simply spread across the surface and underground, converting the planets resources into more zerg.

Also, from a fleet action base there is an additional factor to consider, though it affects ground as well.

Infested units. Zerg forces and fleets in this case have been shown to maintain infested vehicles via incorporating, hijacking or "hermit-crabbing" them. On the same vehicle type you range from being relatively unmodified bar the infestation, to having the weapons and abilities redone with zerg attributes. Some infested siege tanks are simply infested, controlled siege tanks while others are grafted onto crawler legs, and further still some serve as accelerators for zerg ground units, ingesting and launching them at targets.

The same affect would occur in space, within the zerg fleets infested Battlecruisers and transports would exist, serving their original purpose and simply being infested with the growths required to control, maintain. While others such as the Aleksander are completely repurposed, "Hermit-crabbed" as the only remaining resemblance to their original is the metal shell. Smaller infested craft would probably be stored just as normal fliers, inside Leviathans/Behemoths or in the docking areas of infested transports, battlecruisers, etc. What could be interesting is to have the zerg leave the koprulu sector and serve as the protagonists/antagonists with a new batch of two other races, fulfilling their original desire of perfection. Seeing your units fall to bugs, scary. Seeing that the bugs have apparently dealt with bigger fish then you and have now twisted war machines far more advanced then you could hope to field in the next century into their own purposes or retained them for their original is just terrifying. The implication that the unending swarm has done this to countless other races and worlds more powerful then yours is a terror weapon fitting of Baelrog Brood.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

What are you doing, writing a story? (If you don't mind me asking)

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Something like that, it's why I'm still paying attention to what Blizzard keeps announcing in the Co-Op missions. Elements of what they reveal will be put into the story

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

In atmosphere, Hundreds+ depending on what the cruiser is doing, presumably enough could latch on to alter the flight path, but considering BV's can push and accelerate their mass in atmo without issues their engines can probably deal with the strain. In a vacuum probably more depending on the strength of the gas propulsion. Also prime targets for a missile barrage considering they would have to clump-up to adequately put the net force into a useful direction.

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How much different would it be if vipers could land or latch onto a hatchery or leviathan before pulling in the battlecruisr?

Landing without digging themselves into the ground as stability would not provide much benefit. They can support their own weight plus a thor or ultralisk which implies that their wings provide a lot of the anchor strength. Landing on the ground, digging in and using their wings to add further force down may provide an effective anchor. Perhaps a handful could snag a Raven, but still probably severl dozen to hook a battlecruiser, depending on what the cruiser is doing, atmosphere consistency do determine amount of force generated by wings, ground composition as an extra layer. A older Behemoth, Leviathen or smaller Minotaur, Hercules cruiser after getting hit by a bunch of scourge and power reserves depleted by constant shield and weapon usage might be slowly pulled into the ground, probably enough structural integretity to survive consider Nomad-II did okay and the more skeletal Helios was still somewhat intact.

There's really no mathematical basis for this without the mass of any class of battlecruiser, its maximum thrust. Mass of something like a Thor or Ultra as comparison and benchmark. I'm just making guesses by comparing dimensions and taking into account zerg biology op-ness.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

There's really no mathematical basis for this without the mass of any class of battlecruiser, its maximum thrust. Mass of something like a Thor or Ultra as comparison and benchmark. I'm just making guesses by comparing dimensions and taking into account zerg biology op-ness.

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Why use a Thor? Those things are way tinier compared to the BC

Comparison, its relatively boxy and easy to get dimensions from for things like neosteel and other terran material mass.

Figures. I'll need to see the scale of the Thor and the BC side to side then

Robears Size chart. Just open it in a photo editor and drag them.

On another note, I've wrote a bunch of stories over the years, some effectively fanfics and some original. I've been tempted to post them lately. Should I? (Not the original stuff, that stays with me for now)

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

Robears Size chart. Just open it in a photo editor and drag them.

On another note, I've wrote a bunch of stories over the years, some effectively fanfics and some original. I've been tempted to post them lately. Should I? (Not the original stuff, that stays with me for now)

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I didn't know you wrote such stories. Do you have a fanfiction.net account? Because I'm on that site daily looking for fics. After HotS's release, SC fic activity plummeted.

I've been thinking more about new concepts for broods and breeds. To keep everyone on the same page, I decided to use specific jargon.

Zerg "strains" (telepathic ranking)

I would adopt the zerg hierarchy used by Leovaunt's StarCraft RPG. It divides the zerg into mastermind, commander, specialist and minion. In canon brief mention is made of "alpha zerg" being a terran label for cerebrates and queens, so I decided to combine that with the Leovaunt ranks to create an in-universe designation.

Alpha zerg are those who lead hive clusters, broods, swarms, etc. They include canonical breeds such as the overmind shell, cerebrate, brood mother, etc. They are named for both their position and the fact that they produce alpha waves like terran ghosts do.

Beta zerg are the secondary agents relied on by alpha zerg to relay orders to other zerg. They include canonical breeds such as overlords, queens, infestors and variants thereof. Beta zerg are at least as intelligent as humans and are capable of holding conversations. Beta zerg may command any gamma and delta zerg, but in practice only relay commands to breeds relevant to their tasks (e.g. queens commanding drones, overlords commanding zerglings, infestors commanding infested terrans).

Gamma zerg are the rank and file minions. They include laborers like the drones, warriors like the zerglings and hydralisks. They answer to the commands of beta zerg. Some gamma breeds, such as locusts and broodlings, respond to the commands of sub-beta zerg.

Delta zerg are more intelligent than gamma zerg, but not necessarily to the degree of beta zerg. Some delta zerg are sub-beta, meaning that they can relay commands to specific breeds of gamma zerg. Delta zerg include canonical breeds like defilers, swarm hosts and brood lords.

Zerg "fireflies"
The "fireflies" are an idea I had after reading about various concepts from the SC2 beta that were ultimately scrapped. Zerg fireflies are ubiquitous organisms which serve a variety of roles within hive clusters, and are conceptually similar to Scrin buzzers from Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars. Firefly swarms may garrison zerg structures or larger breeds like ultralisks to provide defense, produced by firefly colonies as ammunition, or deployed directly on the battlefield as support canon fodder.

Mind worms
Inspired by the mind worms from Alpha Centauri. Zerg mind worms are a variant of larvae which have offensive psychic powers due to added human psychic genetics. This allows them to disable larger creatures long enough to burrow into their bodies and kill them. They might function similar to, or be the same as, the fireflies mentioned above.

On a personal note, I tend to view scrapped units as canon when possible, just being rarer then the contemporary game units. Somewhat supported by what happened to the SC:Ghost units and model re-usage. So the "fireflies" above being the swarm infestation from the queens in SC2 Development. or the in-editor model equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

On a personal note, I tend to view scrapped units as canon when possible, just being rarer then the contemporary game units. Somewhat supported by what happened to the SC:Ghost units and model re-usage. So the "fireflies" above being the swarm infestation from the queens in SC2 Development. or the in-editor model equivalent.

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Some of the SC Ghost units already have become canon in the SC universe. Look at the Grizzly, it got its spot in the SC Ghost Spectres book

That's kinda my point. Given how I said it was supported by the SC:Ghost units. Blizzard having them show up in other stuff means they exist - and if they exist, whats wrong with some of the weirder things being prototypes, defunct strains or exotic ships made by a specific tribe? Heck, theres even lore for some like the Nomad.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

That's kinda my point. Given how I said it was supported by the SC:Ghost units. Blizzard having them show up in other stuff means they exist - and if they exist, whats wrong with some of the weirder things being prototypes, defunct strains or exotic ships made by a specific tribe? Heck, theres even lore for some like the Nomad.

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I don't recall the Nomad lore, what did it say?

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

That's kinda my point. Given how I said it was supported by the SC:Ghost units. Blizzard having them show up in other stuff means they exist - and if they exist, whats wrong with some of the weirder things being prototypes, defunct strains or exotic ships made by a specific tribe? Heck, theres even lore for some like the Nomad.

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I am actually surprised the zerg have so few units considering they consumed countless worlds over countless millennia. Although the same may be leveled at the terrans and protoss. I guess it must be due to gameplay being an abstraction of reality. Trying to account for every model of fighter jet is just not practical for a video game.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

I am actually surprised the zerg have so few units considering they consumed countless worlds over countless millennia. Although the same may be leveled at the terrans and protoss. I guess it must be due to gameplay being an abstraction of reality. Trying to account for every model of fighter jet is just not practical for a video game.

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The Overmind probably took what he thought was the best of the best and discarded what he didn't want. After all, the zerg follow the whole "survival of the fittest" concept, which means those too weak deserve to die. Even in the SC2 lore they kept that.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

The Overmind probably took what he thought was the best of the best and discarded what he didn't want. After all, the zerg follow the whole "survival of the fittest" concept, which means those too weak deserve to die. Even in the SC2 lore they kept that.

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That is not what "survival of the fittest" means and your definition of "weak" is nonsensical. The zerg do not care about physical strength specifically, they care about anything that could be useful to them or has the potential to be useful. They assimilated overlords for their enhanced senses (and only later used them as control nodes due to a happy side-effect) and they assimilated sonaran mold because it was a key ingredient for explosives. Most of their core genuses, such as the caterpillar slothien and the weaponless brontolith, were extremely "weak" before the zerg turned them into monsters. The zerg seem to be extremely frugal, and even a species which has no new genes to offer the zerg would still serve a purpose as food for the nest.

Between SC1 and SC2, a period of four years, the zerg supposedly developed a dozen new breeds without discarding what they had. Logically, they should have thousands of different breeds by now. It makes no sense from a military perspective to discard all that diversity because diversity is a zerg value. The only explanation is that it is not feasible from a game design perspective to design all those units. It does not make any sense to take game mechanics literally, as the youtube series Starcrafts attests.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

Between SC1 and SC2, a period of four years, the zerg supposedly developed a dozen new breeds without discarding what they had. Logically, they should have thousands of different breeds by now. It makes no sense from a military perspective to discard all that diversity because diversity is a zerg value. The only explanation is that it is not feasible from a game design perspective to design all those units. It does not make any sense to take game mechanics literally, as the youtube series Starcrafts attests.

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Then you can consider that after fighting the terrans and protoss for years, they simply kept what was the most practical and kept what wasn't in reserve, only to be used in the direst of emergencies

More likely, the genetic history of the zerg contains many hundreds of organisms, and we see the current combat roster. The strains that proved most effective at their roles. I like to think lots of the other species got incorporated into the core strains rather then being a primary host themselves (Things like Hydra's having seven notable species in the DNA). All those weird variants we see in various SC1 maps have different supplementary genetics from different organisms.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

More likely, the genetic history of the zerg contains many hundreds of organisms, and we see the current combat roster. The strains that proved most effective at their roles. I like to think lots of the other species got incorporated into the core strains rather then being a primary host themselves (Things like Hydra's having seven notable species in the DNA). All those weird variants we see in various SC1 maps have different supplementary genetics from different organisms.

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And yet for all the books, comics, short stories, etc, we've hardly seen any other zerg organism....

Current roster, heck just comparing the visual differences from SC1 imply a good amount of genetic change.

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Originally Posted by Nolanstar

Current roster, heck just comparing the visual differences from SC1 imply a good amount of genetic change.

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I'm not sure if visual differences from SC1 count, hell Blizzard could just say improved graphics as a reason

I had a few ideas for species the zerg could have assimilated before they discovered humanity.

"Dimensional Shambler" from the Cthulhu mythos
"Data Overmind" or "Sky Canopy Dominion" from Haruhi Suzumiya
"Arn" from Animorphs
Honestly just pick any alien species from any work of fiction you think could be useful to the zerg in some capacity

Field guide lists several sc1 unit depictions as older strains, and given that SC22 cinematics use a different Zergling model for the Kerrigan abduction flashback its safe to say that most breeds looked like their SC1 appearances at the time.