What kind of retcons do you think will justify the plot of StarCraft 3?

Tl;dr Much as how StarCraft 2 retconned the entire backstory of StarCraft 1, I fully expect that StarCraft 3 will retcon the entire backstory of StarCraft 2. What do you suppose the writers would come up with to justify whatever the plot of StarCraft 3 would be?

Longer version: This was originally a reply to a post in another thread, but I thought it was tangential enough to spin off into a new thread.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

For now. I'm still hoping sometime in the future they'll get back to Ulrezaj and why he named the Aiur protoss he converted as Tal'darim too, and how much Ulrezaj knew about Amon, and so on.

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There's no actual way to continue the StarCraft story. The magical happily ever after ending resulted in everyone sitting around a campfire singing kumbaya. This despite the fact that the Protoss murdered billions of people when they glassed dozens of worlds, the Zerg are biologically hardwired to eat everything that is not them, and Terrans have been in a constant state of war since they came to exist.

Even if the story were continued somehow, probably by repeatedly resurrecting and killing Amon/Overmind/whoever, it would be a waste of time. The story has always been embarrassingly bad and can only get worse from here. The Protoss and Zerg are bland and boring; they exist solely to support the human characters. Even if they had actual personalities they would amount to no more than funny looking humans because the bad writing destroyed everything that previously set them apart (the Khala and the Overmind).

Furthermore, StarCraft 3 would undoubtedly retcon everything yet again. Blizzard has already shown they don't care about continuity at all, what with retconning the Terran population so that suffering several years of constant apocalyptic war makes no dent in their economy. I wouldn't be surprised if SC3 resurrects the Overmind and the Khala without explanation, introduces a new antagonist out of nowhere (who is retconned into always existing), introduces time travel, or otherwise renders the setting unrecognizable.

What they definitely will not do is go off on some random tangent with the primal zerg or taldarim just because Raynor and Kerry's story arc is over, because the last thing Blizzard cares about is continuity. The Taldarim and Primals are boring and unpopular. Raynor and Kerry are the main characters, because StarCraft was retconned into being all about these two sociopathic, mass-murdering deranged lovebirds. So of course StarCraft 3 will revolve around them, or more accurately completely new characters who happen to share their names and likenesses (since Blizzard cannot write consistent characters).

Taldarim are actually pretty damn popular. That's why the war chest has Tal'Darim protoss units and why the co-op Alarak commander is killing it. They even threw him into Novert Ops for fan service.

I hate the primals, but the Dehaka co-op commander is doing well too. :/

Anyway, I can think of a dozen plotlines for potential conflict, but the universe is forever tainted IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Taldarim are actually pretty damn popular. That's why the war chest has Tal'Darim protoss units and why the co-op Alarak commander is killing it. They even threw him into Novert Ops for fan service.

I hate the primals, but the Dehaka co-op commander is doing well too. :/

Anyway, I can think of a dozen plotlines for potential conflict, but the universe is forever tainted IMHO.

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Then go to Blizzard and tell them to just redo the whole SC2 trilogy, Gradius.

Dehaka in coop is good, but in terms of the game itself he could have been better, I disliked his constant essence obsession

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

Tl;dr Much as how StarCraft 2 retconned the entire backstory of StarCraft 1, I fully expect that StarCraft 3 will retcon the entire backstory of StarCraft 2. What do you suppose the writers would come up with to justify whatever the plot of StarCraft 3 would be?

Longer version: This was originally a reply to a post in another thread, but I thought it was tangential enough to spin off into a new thread.

There's no actual way to continue the StarCraft story. The magical happily ever after ending resulted in everyone sitting around a campfire singing kumbaya. This despite the fact that the Protoss murdered billions of people when they glassed dozens of worlds, the Zerg are biologically hardwired to eat everything that is not them, and Terrans have been in a constant state of war since they came to exist.

Even if the story were continued somehow, probably by repeatedly resurrecting and killing Amon/Overmind/whoever, it would be a waste of time. The story has always been embarrassingly bad and can only get worse from here. The Protoss and Zerg are bland and boring; they exist solely to support the human characters. Even if they had actual personalities they would amount to no more than funny looking humans because the bad writing destroyed everything that previously set them apart (the Khala and the Overmind).

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because ypur supposed ending singing kumbaya is far from the real thing, end starcraft 2 raised a cold war essentiary, factions officially in truce, with sub factions here and there do not agree. nova is an extremist independent paramilitary group by its leader, Alarak cares much for the presence so any action against him brings a multiplied response, really exaggerated and nothing diplomatic. stukov is a lord of the deads or we know what to expect, dehaka is now king of zerus and really do not know to wait for him if he plans to make hunts galactic level, terrans are already fractioned enough, the rest of the protoss are a the defensive, niadra hates the protoss by inheritance, abathur the last vestige of the original zerg acts out of sight of zagara, while she is playing to obey what mommy kerrigan says

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Originally Posted by Gradius

Taldarim are actually pretty damn popular. That's why the war chest has Tal'Darim protoss units and why the co-op Alarak commander is killing it. They even threw him into Novert Ops for fan service.

I hate the primals, but the Dehaka co-op commander is doing well too. :/

Anyway, I can think of a dozen plotlines for potential conflict, but the universe is forever tainted IMHO.

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Then Alarak and Dehaka will be the main characters of their respective campaigns. They will probably have their personalities rewritten into bipolar psychopaths.

With retcons, you don’t need to think about the logic and implications of your plot. I fully expect SC3 to follow identical structure to SC1 and SC2. The conflict of the campaigns will be called either the Third Great War or the Second End War. In the terran campaign we rebel against the evil empire (confederacy, dominion, xel’naga) using a deus ex machina (psi-emitter, enslaved zerg, xel’naga artifact), in the zerg campaign we try to conquer our enemies (aiur, koprulu, mengsk) but get constantly sidetracked by side missions (chrysalis, civil war, enslavers, etc), and in the protoss campaign we fight off the zerg by killing their space satan leader (overmind, feral zerg, amon) with a deus ex machina (twilight templar, xel’naga temple, xel’naga essence).

Kerry gets infested again, Raynor rebels against the newest evil empire, whatever. Their love story will be the main focus of the plot, again.

Maybe, I don’t know, another race is introduced as the enemies/allies/creators/children/whatever of the xel’naga and become the new villains or something.

All the damage caused by the previous wars is ignored as if it never happened. The Terran and Protoss infrastructure and economies, if not fully functional, are retconned to even higher numbers than before. Like, I don’t know, Chau Sara is now covered in a giant megacity, Aiur has giant golden rings built around it for docking ships, and the new Zerg home world is a planet-sized hive.

The Khala is either brought back with a cheap explanation about nerve cord grafting, the harm caused by its absence is ignored, or its importance/existence is replaced or retconned away.

It doesn’t matter if previous characters were killed off, since they can easily be resurrected by zerg infestation, purifier mind uploads, xel’naga space magic, etc. Several characters have died at least once, such as Stukov, Fenix, Amon, the Overmind, the Cerebrates… If Kerrigan was retconned with the power of resurrection, then there’s no reason why the Overmind and the Cerebrates cannot too. They could even be retconned with a special power that lets them ignore the dark Templar attack too, it could be retconned to being temporary, or it could work like Amon so that the Zerg cannot be permanently killed except in the Void by a xel’naga.

I would not be surprised if they resurrected the Overmind again to be the new big bad evil guy and retconned Amon into a good guy who was trying to stop the Zerg from eating everyone but ended up being mind-controlled by the Overmind and blah blah blah the Sargeras and Eredar fiasco all over again. They might even pull a Frozen Throne and make the Overmind an inherited position that must always rule the Zerg. The bizarre thing is that such retcons would actually return the Overmind to the status it had in SC1.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

Then go to Blizzard and tell them to just redo the whole SC2 trilogy, Gradius.

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The story problems date back to StarCraft 1 when Metzen rewrote the Zerg campaign to include an extended Kerrigan cameo. Everything after the first set of campaigns was sloppily made up on the fly. This is why I switched to Enumerate as a framework for building stories, since it outlines the major phases and political ramifications of a full-scale galactic war from beginning to end; the intention is that this backdrop would support any number of custom campaigns in any period.

Custom campaigns based on canon typically go on bizarre tangents, rehash canon, or rewrite the rules. For example, there are at least two or three campaigns which resurrect and then immediately kill the Overmind. Another campaign makes the purifiers/mobius/whoever into the new big bad and disposes of them just as quickly. By far my favorite is the poorly translated Polish custom campaign "Proditor," which pretty much throws canon rules out the window in order to tell its story. It depicts a whole faction of infested Protoss (or at least, infestation succeeding on the first try with no preparation), Zerg betraying Zerg despite being united by the Overmind, and other impossible events.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

Dehaka in coop is good, but in terms of the game itself he could have been better, I disliked his constant essence obsession

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Speaking of which, I fully expect the primal zerg, the definition of essence, etc to be retconned yet again.

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Originally Posted by drakolobo

because ypur supposed ending singing kumbaya is far from the real thing, end starcraft 2 raised a cold war essentiary, factions officially in truce, with sub factions here and there do not agree. nova is an extremist independent paramilitary group by its leader, Alarak cares much for the presence so any action against him brings a multiplied response, really exaggerated and nothing diplomatic. stukov is a lord of the dead or we know what to expect, dehaka is now king of zerus and really do not know to wait for him if he plans to make hunts galactic level, terrans are already fractioned enough, the rest of the protoss are a the defensive, niadra hates the protoss by inheritance, abathur the last vestige of the original zerg acts out of sight of zagara, while she is playing to obey what mommy kerrigan says

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StarCraft Evolution showed that six years went by without a single war, even though the six years before that had no less than four or five wars. Even if what you say is true, I fully expect Blizzard will forget all about it and pull something out of their ass that involves loads and loads of retcons and another space satan who is responsible for the previous space satans.

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Originally Posted by Misalgnissa

By far my favorite is the poorly translated Polish custom campaign "Proditor," which pretty much throws canon rules out the window in order to tell its story.

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Looks like somebody hasn't played the Antioch Chronicles or Odyssey.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Looks like somebody hasn't played the Antioch Chronicles or Odyssey.

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You forgot Flame Knives. The Kharnikhan Empire were Tal'darim before it was fashionable.

Also, I just wrote a satirical passage of what might pass for background lore in a hypothetical StarCraft 3 exposition section. The frightening thing is that this doesn't sound all that far-fetched, despite my attempt to be clearly absurdist. Let me know what you think.

The Story So Far, of StarCraft 3

In the beginning, the xel’naga created the universe. They created the zerg in the Zerus Galaxy and the protoss in the Aiur Galaxy with the intent that the two races would eventually merge and become the next generation of xel’naga, like sperm fertilizing ova. However, the xel’naga Amon discovered that the zerg were evil and would eventually assimilate the universe in pursuit of perfection. He tried to stop them, but they infested and consumed him. Then, using his knowledge, they killed and ate all the other xel’naga. With their new infinite power, they went on to conquer billions of galaxies before sending a token fleet to eat the newly discovered Koprulu galaxy ruled by the Protoss Empire and finally achieve their fabled perfection.

Meanwhile, enclaves of Protoss in other galaxies formed their own great Empire billions of years ago. From these Protoss descended numerous colonies. During the Aeon of Strife, a multi-galactic war lasting billions of years, many colonies forgot their origins and believed themselves alone in the universe. The Koprulu Empire, ruling the Koprulu Galaxy, was one such empire. The Zerg, however, remained unaware of the Protoss Empires at large.

The control brain of the Koprulu expeditionary fleet, the Overmind, was killed and defeated by the twilight Templar Tassadar. This left the swarms in the Koprulu galaxy feral and easy prey. The Overmind’s daughter, Kerrigan, swiftly took command and tried to continue her father’s goal. Then the xel’naga Duran, who escaped the great devouring, appeared and deceived her into helping him make Zerg/Protoss hybrids who would destroy the Zerg.

Using the ancient psychic magic of the xel’naga, Duran resurrected Amon free of Zerg control. Amon used his psychic magic to enslave the Protoss and Zerg, with the intention of creating an army of hybrids to defeat the Zerg who ruled the universe outside the Koprulu galaxy. However, he did not know that the Overmind could see the future and had already planned Amon’s demise.

Amon and Duran were killed, allowing the Koprulu galaxy to return to its previously peaceful ways. Since the Overmind was dead, the Zerg in the Koprulu galaxy forgot their mission and, having little in the way of independent thought, decided to retreat into a life of silent contemplation.

Concerned by the fact that billions of years passed without a peep from the Koprulu galaxy, the Zerg Emperor has sent another Overmind to investigate the Koprulu galaxy. Meanwhile, the Protoss Empire has discovered numerous Zerg creatures exploring the borders of their rule and sent fleets to investigate. One such fleet arrives in the Koprulu galaxy…

Well, I think we legit have a myriad of ways to create a StarCraft III. We know nothing about the UED or the inner workings of the Umojan Protectorate. The Tal'Darim and Primal Zerg may be the keys for a successful fusion of Protoss and Zerg. Some Ta'Darim still have nerve cords, so perhaps they can learn how to tap the Khala. Between Dehaka's Packs, Stukov's Infested, and Zagara's semi-independent Broods, the Zerg are highly fractured and can go in any direction. Killing Arcturus Mengsk cannot undo decades of systemic corruption. The Daelaam have becomes just as much individuals as terrans. The Purifiers contain unknown centuries of knowledge, experience and perspectives. And there are still things to learn about the Void and the Xel'Naga's origins.

I think there is a treasure trove of possibilities. But I'm just as pessimistic as any of you about Blizzard's ability to harness and focus that potential.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Well, I think we legit have a myriad of ways to create a StarCraft III. We know nothing about the UED or the inner workings of the Umojan Protectorate. The Tal'Darim and Primal Zerg may be the keys for a successful fusion of Protoss and Zerg. Some Ta'Darim still have nerve cords, so perhaps they can learn how to tap the Khala. Between Dehaka's Packs, Stukov's Infested, and Zagara's semi-independent Broods, the Zerg are highly fractured and can go in any direction. Killing Arcturus Mengsk cannot undo decades of systemic corruption. The Daelaam have becomes just as much individuals as terrans. The Purifiers contain unknown centuries of knowledge, experience and perspectives. And there are still things to learn about the Void and the Xel'Naga's origins.

I think there is a treasure trove of possibilities. But I'm just as pessimistic as any of you about Blizzard's ability to harness and focus that potential.

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To be honest, all of those suggestions sound really boring compared to my satirical epic space opera. I can see why retcons are so attractive to Blizzard. Without the UED and Duran and Amon coming out of left field, you never could have continued the plot of StarCraft 1. Same thing here.

EDIT: I am being sarcastic. The problem is that you are thinking about logically following existing plot threads, whereas Blizzard is thinking about what would make for an epic story. Therefore, StarCraft 3 is obligated to shoehorn yet another galactic apocalypse. This requires making up a new faction from nowhere because the existing factions cannot do that.

Sc3 literally could be anything and it'd be "justified". The retcons and how they were used, set a precedent that just about anything can happen and nothing, not even the games internal history (recent or otherwise), can be taken for granted. It's at the point where I won't even bat an eyelid now if it were "revealed" that Xel'Naga are some time-travelling, future descendent of Terrans or whatever other outlandish idea that anyone else can come up with.

For all the quirks in BW and Sc1 story, there was always a feeling of verisimilitude, consequence and finality to some of the things that were happening there that we just don't get in Sc2. The retcons, amongst other things, in SC2 make it seem like things just happen for the sake of happening or worse, that there's obvious authorial intervention going on. All of this breaks one's immersion into that story. Not only that, any sense of tension that can be mustered seems manufactured rather than being naturally emergent such that while the stakes are definitely bigger and should carry weight, they ultimately ring hollow and false. Part of it is also due to the hyper-inflated importance of the old named characters and the grandiosity of having to revolve stories around such "big name" characters. That people were more interested in "unimportant" side characters like Tychus, Abathur and Alarak makes me wonder at how differently the story would've turned out and been received if it focused on building up new characters as the leads.

After Sc2, I have no interest in Sc3 in terms of its "main" story any more. They'll probably tap into a villain that's less esoteric and will garner more nostalgia pangs (looks at UED) or they might actually make the Protoss, in some form (Tal'darim?), the antagonist this time. Either way, I won't care for it since it'd still reek of "sequel for the sake of sequel" no matter how long it takes before it is eventually released. It's funny in a way since I was one of a very rare few who actually didn't want a sequel and was cynical of Sc2 right from the get-go way back when. I was hoping that I wasn't going to be vindicated - but alas, it was not to be. Still, whilst I've never read the EU novels (and still most likely won't), I'm still interested in the universe and the smaller things that can happen within it like those short stories and tangents that had nothing to do with the core/original game characters and story. In terms of "story", I felt they were actually the best thing that ever came close to capturing that old Starcraft feel throughout this entire time.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Sc3 literally could be anything and it'd be "justified". The retcons and how they were used, set a precedent that just about anything can happen and nothing, not even the games internal history (recent or otherwise), can be taken for granted.

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/thread]

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

Speaking of which, I fully expect the primal zerg, the definition of essence, etc to be retconned yet again.

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So do I, but mainly because they didn't try to explain too much about them in HotS. It was a shame Kerrigan didn't ask Zurvan a bit more about the primal's history before Amon arrived and all that.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

In the beginning, the xel’naga created the universe. They created the zerg in the Zerus Galaxy and the protoss in the Aiur Galaxy with the intent that the two races would eventually merge and become the next generation of xel’naga, like sperm fertilizing ova. However, the xel’naga Amon discovered that the zerg were evil and would eventually assimilate the universe in pursuit of perfection. He tried to stop them, but they infested and consumed him. Then, using his knowledge, they killed and ate all the other xel’naga. With their new infinite power, they went on to conquer billions of galaxies before sending a token fleet to eat the newly discovered Koprulu galaxy ruled by the Protoss Empire and finally achieve their fabled perfection.

Meanwhile, enclaves of Protoss in other galaxies formed their own great Empire billions of years ago. From these Protoss descended numerous colonies. During the Aeon of Strife, a multi-galactic war lasting billions of years, many colonies forgot their origins and believed themselves alone in the universe. The Koprulu Empire, ruling the Koprulu Galaxy, was one such empire. The Zerg, however, remained unaware of the Protoss Empires at large.

The control brain of the Koprulu expeditionary fleet, the Overmind, was killed and defeated by the twilight Templar Tassadar. This left the swarms in the Koprulu galaxy feral and easy prey. The Overmind’s daughter, Kerrigan, swiftly took command and tried to continue her father’s goal. Then the xel’naga Duran, who escaped the great devouring, appeared and deceived her into helping him make Zerg/Protoss hybrids who would destroy the Zerg.

Using the ancient psychic magic of the xel’naga, Duran resurrected Amon free of Zerg control. Amon used his psychic magic to enslave the Protoss and Zerg, with the intention of creating an army of hybrids to defeat the Zerg who ruled the universe outside the Koprulu galaxy. However, he did not know that the Overmind could see the future and had already planned Amon’s demise.

Amon and Duran were killed, allowing the Koprulu galaxy to return to its previously peaceful ways. Since the Overmind was dead, the Zerg in the Koprulu galaxy forgot their mission and, having little in the way of independent thought, decided to retreat into a life of silent contemplation.

Concerned by the fact that billions of years passed without a peep from the Koprulu galaxy, the Zerg Emperor has sent another Overmind to investigate the Koprulu galaxy. Meanwhile, the Protoss Empire has discovered numerous Zerg creatures exploring the borders of their rule and sent fleets to investigate. One such fleet arrives in the Koprulu galaxy…

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I wouldn't bother going that far. There was nothing to say the Xel'Naga created the universe in SC1 or the SC2 lore. Personally I doubt they'd really decide to go that far. Though then again, you could argue this somewhat happened in HotS, given how much they forgot what happened in the WoL storyline.

Again, this is why I still believe Blizzard made the whole SC2 story based off the assumption "Oh everyone is only in it for the multiplayer, so no one will even notice if we make retcons in the campaign."

That's probably accurate, Rag. Blizzard sees their stories as being very malleable; it's all about making up excuses to sell products. If anyone expects the same amount of passion in Blizzard's stoey telling as, say, Valve treated its IPs in the past (emphasis on past), then they're fooling themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next big retcon involves linking the various universes once inhabited by the Xel'Naga, leading to some roundabout story that concludes with humanity being the lynch pin of the Xel'Naga's genesis and continued existence. Just look at WarCraft to see into Starcraft's future.

So what does everyone think of the new short 3 part comic from the Warchest?
Seems like they didn't completely forget about Niadra and some things seem to be heating up in the DMZ.

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So what does everyone think of the new short 3 part comic from the Warchest?
Seems like they didn't completely forget about Niadra and some things seem to be heating up in the DMZ.

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I'm lost. What's going on?

EDIT Whoops, never mind, found it!

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

That's probably accurate, Rag. Blizzard sees their stories as being very malleable; it's all about making up excuses to sell products. If anyone expects the same amount of passion in Blizzard's stoey telling as, say, Valve treated its IPs in the past (emphasis on past), then they're fooling themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next big retcon involves linking the various universes once inhabited by the Xel'Naga, leading to some roundabout story that concludes with humanity being the lynch pin of the Xel'Naga's genesis and continued existence. Just look at WarCraft to see into Starcraft's future.

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I never got into the WC universe, Vok. Just give me the gist of it.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Sc3 literally could be anything and it'd be "justified". The retcons and how they were used, set a precedent that just about anything can happen and nothing, not even the games internal history (recent or otherwise), can be taken for granted. It's at the point where I won't even bat an eyelid now if it were "revealed" that Xel'Naga are some time-travelling, future descendent of Terrans or whatever other outlandish idea that anyone else can come up with.

For all the quirks in BW and Sc1 story, there was always a feeling of verisimilitude, consequence and finality to some of the things that were happening there that we just don't get in Sc2. The retcons, amongst other things, in SC2 make it seem like things just happen for the sake of happening or worse, that there's obvious authorial intervention going on. All of this breaks one's immersion into that story. Not only that, any sense of tension that can be mustered seems manufactured rather than being naturally emergent such that while the stakes are definitely bigger and should carry weight, they ultimately ring hollow and false. Part of it is also due to the hyper-inflated importance of the old named characters and the grandiosity of having to revolve stories around such "big name" characters. That people were more interested in "unimportant" side characters like Tychus, Abathur and Alarak makes me wonder at how differently the story would've turned out and been received if it focused on building up new characters as the leads.

After Sc2, I have no interest in Sc3 in terms of its "main" story any more. They'll probably tap into a villain that's less esoteric and will garner more nostalgia pangs (looks at UED) or they might actually make the Protoss, in some form (Tal'darim?), the antagonist this time. Either way, I won't care for it since it'd still reek of "sequel for the sake of sequel" no matter how long it takes before it is eventually released. It's funny in a way since I was one of a very rare few who actually didn't want a sequel and was cynical of Sc2 right from the get-go way back when. I was hoping that I wasn't going to be vindicated - but alas, it was not to be. Still, whilst I've never read the EU novels (and still most likely won't), I'm still interested in the universe and the smaller things that can happen within it like those short stories and tangents that had nothing to do with the core/original game characters and story. In terms of "story", I felt they were actually the best thing that ever came close to capturing that old Starcraft feel throughout this entire time.

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You hit on the nail on head with what I think StarCraft did wrong. I definitely think StarCraft would have been better as a backdrop for space opera stories rather than literally forcing the universe to revolve around Jim and Kerry. The Insurrection expansion showed that you could write interesting campaigns taking place on single planets during the Zerg invasion of the Koprulu sector.

The really neat thing about Insurrection is that it has many identical plot points to SC1, but generally executes them better. For example, the Confederacy and Judicators actually do villainous things to earn their villain label. The Protoss politics had shades of Game of Thrones even. I would be way more interested in more stories like that.

The reason why characters like Alarak and Dehaka are popular is because they are clearly villainous but still protagonists. Dehaka and Abathur ironically follow largely the same values as the pre-Kerry Zerg did, being obsessed with achieving perfection. Alarak is probably the best way to portray evil dark templar who justify judicator paranoia.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

I definitely think StarCraft would have been better as a backdrop for space opera stories rather than literally forcing the universe to revolve around Jim and Kerry.

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Too true. It's weird but, in Sc1, even though the story was following named characters, it never felt to me that "Starcraft" was/revolved about them in particular or specifically. Back then, no character seemed so important in an out-of-universe way (sure, the in-universe characters would like to heap importance on specific other characters but that doesn't mean they actually are important or important as much as they think or like them to be)/ protected by plot armour that they couldn't potentially and untimely meet death around the corner due to a mistake, a miscalculation or misjudgement. Afterall, even the most godlike character that was present in Sc1, the Overmind, proved to be fallible in the end through no fault of its own.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

The reason why characters like Alarak and Dehaka are popular is because they are clearly villainous but still protagonists. Dehaka and Abathur ironically follow largely the same values as the pre-Kerry Zerg did, being obsessed with achieving perfection. Alarak is probably the best way to portray evil dark templar who justify judicator paranoia.

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Not so sure about Dehaka. He sure is...uh, "different" but he's doesn't really become much than a one-note "hat" and he's used more as plot device than anything else (to resolve another conveniently introduced plot device).

I think Alarak, Tychus and even Abathur are popular not because they're villainous but because those characters hearken back to the dirty, the griminess that was Starcraft. They're the brutally honest, "cut-the-shit" types that you would expect to see in that universe. They stand out in Sc2 because they don't seem to really belong in the fantastical and artificial universe that Sc2 sets them up in.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Too true. It's weird but, in Sc1, even though the story was following named characters, it never felt to me that "Starcraft" was/revolved about them in particular or specifically. Back then, no character seemed so important in an out-of-universe way (sure, the in-universe characters would like to heap importance on specific other characters but that doesn't mean they actually are important or important as much as they think or like them to be)/ protected by plot armour that they couldn't potentially and untimely meet death around the corner due to a mistake, a miscalculation or misjudgement. Afterall, even the most godlike character that was present in Sc1, the Overmind, proved to be fallible in the end through no fault of its own.

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If you have the time, I would suggest reading Enumerate. We all had ideas for fixing StarCraft, but Enumerate is probably the most detailed treatment ever written. I was really glad I found it, because it executed a lot of my similar ideas a lot more elegantly.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Not so sure about Dehaka. He sure is...uh, "different" but he's doesn't really become much than a one-note "hat" and he's used more as plot device than anything else (to resolve another conveniently introduced plot device).

I think Alarak, Tychus and even Abathur are popular not because they're villainous but because those characters hearken back to the dirty, the griminess that was Starcraft. They're the brutally honest, "cut-the-shit" types that you would expect to see in that universe. They stand out in Sc2 because they don't seem to really belong in the fantastical and artificial universe that Sc2 sets them up in.

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Yeah, that's more accurate than what I said.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Too true. It's weird but, in Sc1, even though the story was following named characters, it never felt to me that "Starcraft" was/revolved about them in particular or specifically. Back then, no character seemed so important in an out-of-universe way (sure, the in-universe characters would like to heap importance on specific other characters but that doesn't mean they actually are important or important as much as they think or like them to be)/ protected by plot armour that they couldn't potentially and untimely meet death around the corner due to a mistake, a miscalculation or misjudgement. Afterall, even the most godlike character that was present in Sc1, the Overmind, proved to be fallible in the end through no fault of its own.

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No character was supposed to feel important because the storyline wasn't intended to centered around a single person. In BW they tried to change this a bit due to Kerrigan wanting control of the swarm, and that's fine. However by the time of SC2 they should have only stressed her importance via WoL and that's it, mainly because she was the only symbol of control for the swarm. Once she was defeated on Char, there was no need to stress single character importance anymore

On the planet Adena, in the demilitarized zone between the Terran Dominion and Daelaam territory, a group of Dominion marines (including a psionic named Elms) and mercenaries were sent to salvage jorium crystals from a abandoned mining outpost. In reality the marines were going to keep the jorium for themselves and sell it on the black market. The Daelaam under Admiral Urun watched the terrans skeptically, but allowed them on the planet. The salvage team below took the crates, but soon found zerg under the Niadra Brood in the base, which quickly attacked them.[3]

The marines defended themselves, and Broodmother Niadra revealed she had been waiting on the planet for a long time for terrans to expand her brood, in order to fight the protoss. Niadra planted a larva into the commander just as Kerrigan did on the Daelaam Ark, and allowed her to escape on a dropship. Meanwhile, she turned her attention to Elms, who she recognized as a psionic. Urun's carrier meanwhile shot down the dropship as it was escaping the atmosphere.[4]

Enraged, Captain Hogarth fired on Urun's carrier, and Urun deployed his forces, though it broke the treaty the Daelaam had with the Terran Dominion. Urun then lead a team down to the surface, and fought the zerg around Elms. Together they beat back the zerg, and Urun soon turned on the terrans, but Elms psionically communicated with him, convincing the admiral to join forces to fight off Niadra's zerg.

A quick synopsis of the 3 parts of the comic available so far. Copied from starcraft.wikia.com

That'll probably be minor. Niadra's brood isn't that strong yet, you know

Yeah, I totally see Niadra's brood getting destroyed by the end of this comic. It's just to tie up loose ends.

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Originally Posted by Visions of Khas

Yeah, I totally see Niadra's brood getting destroyed by the end of this comic. It's just to tie up loose ends.

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Did they announce a release date for part 4 yet? Because I can't remember....

I recently thought up some ideas for SC3 expansion/DLC (since it will likely use SC2 engine).

Since it's standard practice to forget existing plot threads and introduce new factions out of nowhere, I expect SC3 will do the same.

New factions:

Galaxy Federation: a Terran empire which rules Earth and other planets. They send fleets to K-sec to put the uppity colonists back in their place. (UED is completely forgotten.)

Locust Crusade: Another Zerg Swarm which split off after leaving Zerus millions of years ago. They want to eat everyone. Their dialogue is ripped off from the reapers in Mass Effect. (Overmind and Kerry are forgotten.)

Something Something Theocracy: Another Protoss empire which split off from Aiur millions of years. They have their own Khala. They want to kill all infidels or something. Their dialogue is ripped off from the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40k.

Hybrids/Void thrashers/xel'naga: a space demon race always that existed and have nothing to do with Zerg or Protoss. Tal'darim summon them with black magic, but they are otherwise canon-fodder. (Amon is forgotten. Taldarim are Sith lords who worship the dark side.)

Does that sound accurate? It's difficult to tell because I have to turn my brain off.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

I recently thought up some ideas for SC3 expansion/DLC (since it will likely use SC2 engine).

Since it's standard practice to forget existing plot threads and introduce new factions out of nowhere, I expect SC3 will do the same.

New factions:

Galaxy Federation: a Terran empire which rules Earth and other planets. They send fleets to K-sec to put the uppity colonists back in their place. (UED is completely forgotten.)

Locust Crusade: Another Zerg Swarm which split off after leaving Zerus millions of years ago. They want to eat everyone. Their dialogue is ripped off from the reapers in Mass Effect. (Overmind and Kerry are forgotten.)

Something Something Theocracy: Another Protoss empire which split off from Aiur millions of years. They have their own Khala. They want to kill all infidels or something. Their dialogue is ripped off from the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40k.

Hybrids/Void thrashers/xel'naga: a space demon race always that existed and have nothing to do with Zerg or Protoss. Tal'darim summon them with black magic, but they are otherwise canon-fodder. (Amon is forgotten. Taldarim are Sith lords who worship the dark side.)

Does that sound accurate? It's difficult to tell because I have to turn my brain off.

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I'll just take the Void thrashers part in the last one. The Xel'Naga can appear in flashbacks and that's enough. It would be interesting to see more of the thrashers as they're also native Void creatures, would like to see how they interacted....

"Taking the piss" there I see, Misla. I think I'll just stick to WH40K thank you very much. Lol

Well, looking at what they're now doing with WoW.. both the alliance and the horde joined forces to fuck over one of the biggest bad guy in the franchise. Yet, the new xpac is about reviving the conflict between the alliance and the horde. Their main reason for going all out war on each other is because of a misunderstanding that could literally be solved instantly if the leaders of both factions weren't too retarded to spend 5 minutes to talk to each other. Wow has always been stupid but this is just an all new level of it.

Anyways, I'm saying this because if wow is the blueprint, I bet they'll want to restart the good old TvPvZ in the unlikely sc3. They won't introduce a new big baddie. How they'll make it happen? I'm not sure what they'll retcon for it. Maybe Valerian(who's basically Anduin) will blame Artanis for something and this will result in a war at the simplest inconvenience and then zagara will jump in because why not? Or worst, maybe they'll want a 2 faction war... Dehaka, Alarak, Nova(the horde) vs Zagara, artanis, Valerian(the alliance).

What I want from SC3 is a complete retcon. Forget SC2 ever happened, and continue as appropriate from SC1.

Actually, what should have happened is a second expansion set for SC1, going Zerg->Toss-> Terran. This would involve a "soft" ending, where the main antagonisms are settled, but all three races are still at odds and violence can/will be provoked in the future. The Zerg would be weakened to a point to where they have to bide their time, the 'Toss would be dealing with their own issues, and the Terrans would have their own factional issues. Thus, that would create the opportunity for future games to be primarily human, and open to smaller stories (ie SC:Ghost and the like). Also, Terrans need to have more importance in the story. Most of the big issues in Starcraft have to do with Protoss and Zerg, making Terrans more or less interlopers in situations far beyond them. As much as this perspective could be interesting, in practice it produces things like the set of UED Terran missions, where hapless humans fight among themselves with minimal impact on the long term story. In short, human missions shouldn't feel like stale interruptions from the big stuff going on with the other races.

I noticed something rather bizarre while looking over the retconned prehistory. I am not sure whether it was intended by the writers or not, but the fact that the xel'naga got their asses handed to them by the primordial protoss and zerg does not change even after the xel'naga are retconned into space gods that personally tear worlds apart. In fact, their wimpiness is exaggerated into absurdity.

The Protoss are retconned to having stone age tools yet still able to build a galactic empire and kill space gods.

The Zerg are retconned to eating essence, which means that when they consumed the xel'naga over Zerus they became xel'naga. The Overmind (and cerebrates, assuming they weren't just forgotten out of existence like the UED) are presumably still alive in the void with all the powers of the xel'naga.

So it would be fully supported by canon to have the Overmind return in SC3 as the new big bad evil guy xel'naga. Only now he's considered a hero because he wants to make everyone into immortal Zerg rather than kill everyone. Maybe he uses his space god powers to restore the Khala as a gesture of good faith or something. Now the status quo is restored.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

The Zerg are retconned to eating essence, which means that when they consumed the xel'naga over Zerus they became xel'naga. The Overmind (and cerebrates, assuming they weren't just forgotten out of existence like the UED) are presumably still alive in the void with all the powers of the xel'naga.

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Only the Primal Zerg eat essence and become what they eat. The hivemind Zerg don't and it was they that defeated the Xel'Naga. It's presumed that hivemind Zerg couldn't assimilate Xel'Naga then for the same reason they can't assimilate Protoss - through retcon. ;)

What's more alarming is that if the Cycle retcon means the Xel'Naga are beings of great change (retconned purity of essence) and great psionic power (retconned purity of form) and that the Overmind couldn't assimilate them or Protoss even then because of said psionic power, why is Kerrigan the supposed answer? Terran psionics are supposedly weak enough to allow such infestation/assimilation but wouldn't that mean she doesn't technically have "great psionic power"/retconned purity of form? How is she able to become a Xel'Naga then?

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Only the Primal Zerg eat essence and become what they eat. The hivemind Zerg don't and it was they that defeated the Xel'Naga. It's presumed that hivemind Zerg couldn't assimilate Xel'Naga then for the same reason they can't assimilate Protoss - through retcon. ;)

What's more alarming is that if the Cycle retcon means the Xel'Naga are beings of great change (retconned purity of essence) and great psionic power (retconned purity of form) and that the Overmind couldn't assimilate them or Protoss even then because of said psionic power, why is Kerrigan the supposed answer? Terran psionics are supposedly weak enough to allow such infestation/assimilation but wouldn't that mean she doesn't technically have "great psionic power"/retconned purity of form? How is she able to become a Xel'Naga then?

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I keep telling you Tura, the whole ascension process we saw in the epilogue was merely Ouros pulling some strings. I'm willing to bet that's probably not the normal way to ascend in the first place, and was out of desperation, not SOP.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Only the Primal Zerg eat essence and become what they eat. The hivemind Zerg don't and it was they that defeated the Xel'Naga. It's presumed that hivemind Zerg couldn't assimilate Xel'Naga then for the same reason they can't assimilate Protoss - through retcon. ;)

What's more alarming is that if the Cycle retcon means the Xel'Naga are beings of great change (retconned purity of essence) and great psionic power (retconned purity of form) and that the Overmind couldn't assimilate them or Protoss even then because of said psionic power, why is Kerrigan the supposed answer? Terran psionics are supposedly weak enough to allow such infestation/assimilation but wouldn't that mean she doesn't technically have "great psionic power"/retconned purity of form? How is she able to become a Xel'Naga then?

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That makes no sense. Amon chose the Zerg because they could eat essence. That's the definition of purity of essence (as of SC2). If the Zerg lost that, they'd no longer have purity of essence.

Then again, this is the same Amon who needed Terran labs to make hybrids. Even though that makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

That makes no sense. Amon chose the Zerg because they could eat essence. That's the definition of purity of essence (as of SC2). If the Zerg lost that, they'd no longer have purity of essence.

Then again, this is the same Amon who needed Terran labs to make hybrids. Even though that makes no sense.

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He didn't actually NEED the terran labs, that was more of an alternative after the end of BW and the swarm's control was lost.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

I keep telling you Tura, the whole ascension process we saw in the epilogue was merely Ouros pulling some strings. I'm willing to bet that's probably not the normal way to ascend in the first place, and was out of desperation, not SOP.

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You may have something there since we do know that Ouros uses deceit to get what he wants and is a confirmed liar.

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Originally Posted by Mislagnissa

That makes no sense. Amon chose the Zerg because they could eat essence. That's the definition of purity of essence (as of SC2). If the Zerg lost that, they'd no longer have purity of essence.

Then again, this is the same Amon who needed Terran labs to make hybrids. Even though that makes no sense.

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Keep in mind that Amon turned the Primal/"True" Zerg into Hivemind Zerg as a way to corrupt that purity, so as to stop the Endless Cycle from occurring naturally. The Hivemind Zerg is implied to not really have purity of essence because they're not true Zerg (like the Primals supposedly are). I'm guessing that this "interference from Amon" in the initial development of the Zerg and Protoss is the "real" reason why the Zerg can't assimilate Protoss. This then begs the question of why Amon needs to even have them all exterminated later when he so thoroughly sabotaged the cycle right from the beginning. See how this HotS retcon totally craps on and confuses what the initial setup was?

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

You may have something there since we do know that Ouros uses deceit to get what he wants and is a confirmed liar.

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All he wanted from what we know is for the cycle to continue, but so far no one really sees any benefit for the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by Turalyon

Keep in mind that Amon turned the Primal/"True" Zerg into Hivemind Zerg as a way to corrupt that purity, so as to stop the Endless Cycle from occurring naturally. The Hivemind Zerg is implied to not really have purity of essence because they're not true Zerg (like the Primals supposedly are). I'm guessing that this "interference from Amon" in the initial development of the Zerg and Protoss is the "real" reason why the Zerg can't assimilate Protoss. This then begs the question of why Amon needs to even have them all exterminated later when he so thoroughly sabotaged the cycle right from the beginning. See how this HotS retcon totally craps on and confuses what the initial setup was?

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You don't know that for the Hivemind Zerg. Remember according to the SC1 manual, the only part Amon played in the whole uplifting was because Zerus's environment was too harsh for the Zerg (who were nothing but parasites then) to survive. After that, he simply allowed them to evolve on their own. Essence is genetic material, and I'm unsure if messing with their minds to bind them to the hive mind counts as corrupting the purity. Of course, if you say that meddling with a guy's brain to obey certain things it doesn't want to qualifies as messing with the genetics in the brain itself, or something like that, then by all means it'd count.

The whole interference with the Zerg isn't the reason they can't assimilate Protoss. Remember, by the time Amon was still on Zerus binding them to the hive mind, the Aeon of Strife was still active on Aiur, BEFORE Khas used the Khala to end it. That means had the Zerg attacked Aiur BEFORE Khas's actions, the Protoss would have been vulnerable to assimilation. Even if Amon knew someday the Khala would eventually be rediscovered, it's not like he knew when that day would be.

Um...according to the SC1 manual, Amon doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Nissa

Um...according to the SC1 manual, Amon doesn't exist.

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I'm merely trying to put the SC1 lore and SC2 lore together, despite the contradictions. It's better than what I heard back then on the Blizzard forums, which basically all just come down to "Blizzard was too damn stupid."

Now yes there's grounds to that claim, but still....

Blizzard does have problems with storytelling. You can't mesh SC1 with SC2 because Blizzard themselves didn't do it. They just did whatever they wanted gameplaywise and slathered it with generic silliness for a story. You can't debate these kinds of details because it's pretty clear Blizzard never did so themselves.

Give it up, man. SC2 is nothing to SC1.