https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MMgaFdd9h8
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Those Nebulon B ripoff ships looked really bizarre.
I think they're supposed to be the Starhawks from Aftermath. But yeah, they're uninspired. I think ILM's adherence to Ralph Mcquarrie is stagnating their creative potential.Quote:
Those Nebulon B ripoff ships looked really bizarre.
*shrugs* Whatever.
Kinda wish trailers would stop it with the melodramatic voiceovers that don't actually say anything.
Meh.
Yeah i'm worried this is just going to be ESB-2 electirc boogaloo but with bigger guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
That movie was SC2 level of horrible.
Hey now, it was pretty bad, but SC2 level? Come on. The writers still have a shred of human dignity.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
I didn't mind it. Though, I'm not sure if that means it was fine or that my standards have dropped so low that I don't give two shits about it any more.
I dunno much about Star Wars, but my girlfriend is a fan on level of my SC obsession. She didn't like it as much as she had hoped, and laments the changes since the originals, but she isn't walking away from it entirely. Therefore, I don't think it's SC2 levels of bad :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
The Leia revival scene though ... that should live on forever in infamy of dankmemes and lolwuts for years for how fucking stupid it was.
I wouldn't say its SC2-level but its not far off, so much stupid, so much forced writing and so many plots that lead nowhere..
You guys are generous :p The only reason why I could give it some slack is that SW never had a super solid story to being with so dumb craps were to be expected. At least it was pretty. I wouldn't be surprised if they told their artists to draw random cool shits, selected the best pieces and THEN wrote a story to glue it up based on Disney's agenda.
Worst part is that, if the aim was just to make cool shit, it isn't even that good in that regard. EA/Bioware make 3 minutes trailers that are cooler than any SW movies. I don't even know who the characters are in those trailers but they somehow manage to interest me more than whoever the movies try sell me in 2 hours.
fuck that was so bad. This is Disney, so this probably had to go through several layers of approval and somehow, it passed. I have trouble understanding that.Quote:
The Leia revival scene though ... that should live on forever in infamy of dankmemes and lolwuts for years for how fucking stupid it was.
The Asian chick was the worst character by far.
Whats the problem with the Leia revival scene other than not being able to survive space that long?
Agreed on the Asian chick.
Scientifically, you'll have a hard time making sense out of it but, space magic so whatever. My suspension of disbelief was broken way before that scene. The main 2 problems are that it just looks cheesy bad and it's "too much" in a movie that's already packed with unnecessary crap. Should really have let her died right there.Quote:
Whats the problem with the Leia revival scene other than not being able to survive space that long?
*looks around*
Okay, won't be seein' it then.
Actually I probably won't be watching any movie until a decade is out, and more competitors to Hollywood are out there. There's always Bollywood, though.
Oh.
Oh no.
Oh god no.
There's another one.
Another one what?
Oh, and I meant I probably won't watch another movie in the theater, because it's just not worth the hassle to watch a meh film. I'll watch stuff for cheap/free. And because that is possible for where I work, I have now finally seen The Force Awakens. It's like a movie on fast forward -- any time they try to have actual character development, an unnecessary action scene pops up. I liked the characters, though.
Star Wars: Solo.
The untold story nobody wanted.
Edit Oh, and of course Weiss and Benioff from Game of Thrones are doing a Star Wars movie series, and Ryan is contracted for a trilogy. Plus JJ is finishing out the Force Awakens trilogy. And an Obi-Wan movie is planned.
Wow.
That cow won't milk itself :p
My thoughts on all these:
-10$ JJ wants to murder Ryan for ruining what he started. Might also be crying after looking at what he has to fix.
-Kath Kennedy MUST be rethinking Ryan's role in the next trilogy. Please just fire him...
-Hopefully W&B's show will be set in the old republic.
-Solo looks meh at best. Maybe it's just me but if there's no jedi/sith, then I don't give a crap. Rogue One was a surprise though so who knows.
Hey, I heard in a review that they "got rid of" Jedi teaching in The Last Jedi. What was that about?
It basically came down to, "The Jedi'sv actions led to Darth Vader." There's a little more nuance than that; Luke admits the Jedi of old were complacent and arrogant and unchanging, leading to their defeat at the hands of Sidious and Vader.
But now you're thinking, "Well, what about YOUR contribution to the Jedi order, Luke?" To which Luke hems and haws before finally admiting "I done goofed with Kylo," and is running from his problems... Which, honestly, is kinda what Jedi Masters do. This, however, is key in humanizing the Jedi; Luke goes into detail about how Jedi are frequently venerated as demigods. The biggest theme of the movie is about humanizing both sides of the conflict, and humanity consists largely of failure. Lots and Lots of failure.
I didn't like TLJ on my first viewing, but it got better on successive viewings.
Eh, TFA gets flak for being too similar to the original series when it was made ostensibly in response to the prequels being too far removed from the feels of the original. Then, TLJ gets flak for being different to TFA and the originals when it probably was made this way in response to the reaction that TFA was unoriginal. We fans are a fickle bunch.
I quite like the subversions that take place in TLJ because it dares to do something different and not just for the sake of spectacle (like what the prequels seem to be and what TFA almost threatens to be). The challenging of the Jedi ideals by Luke in TLJ and the concept of there being gray (which goes beyond Jedi or Sith ideals) reminds me of two of my favourite SW characters in the old Knights of the Old Republic games, Jolee Bindo and Kreia.
I don't have much hope for the Solo prequel. It's going to suffer from the weight of expectation surrounding the main character and them never ever being met, much in the way the prequels turned out with its focus on Anakin. At least it'll be only one film and get to the point quicker than the prequels did. I much prefer the style of Rogue One in terms of SW prequels in that we know the outcome of the characters for sure but we don't have any expectations about the characters themselves because they're mostly unknown. It makes the whole thing a lot more interesting because it then becomes not about getting to that final outcome but rather, why we should care about getting to that final outcome.
Let's be honest here. TFA wasn't similiar to A New Hope, it was the same movie.
Of course, a fan base as large as Star Wars is going to be piss large numbers of people off with any decision, and therefore, the fan base will seem schizophrenic, however, it's not unreasonable to want a Star Wars that feels like the originals but isn't the same fucking movie repackaged. I think The Last Jedi does this, but then, again I'm only a passive fan of Star Wars, my girlfriend, a huge Star Wars fan, has extremely mixed feelings about it.
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Then, TLJ gets flak for being different to TFA and the originals when it probably was made this way in response to the reaction that TFA was unoriginal. We fans are a fickle bunch.
I'm also a passive fan, but the problem with TLJ is not that it's too different, the problem is that the writing is just bad. I'm surprised that you'd even praise it Tura, I would have expected you to pull out the Doylsit/watsonian stuff :p Because god knows if there's a story that suffers from overly Doylist writing, it's TLJ.Quote:
I think The Last Jedi does this, but then, again I'm only a passive fan of Star Wars
Uh...that's like saying that computers lead to adultery so we should get rid of computers. Anything that's genuinely good is capable of being genuinely bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visions of Khas
How would Luke even know about that arrogance stuff? He never met any Jedi besides Kenobi and Vader. On what does he base his comments? That kind of thing automatically makes the prequels relevant, when they really should have pretended that the prequels didn't exist.Quote:
But now you're thinking, "Well, what about YOUR contribution to the Jedi order, Luke?" To which Luke hems and haws before finally admiting "I done goofed with Kylo," and is running from his problems... Which, honestly, is kinda what Jedi Masters do. This, however, is key in humanizing the Jedi; Luke goes into detail about how Jedi are frequently venerated as demigods. The biggest theme of the movie is about humanizing both sides of the conflict, and humanity consists largely of failure. Lots and Lots of failure.
I didn't like TLJ on my first viewing, but it got better on successive viewings.
Also, imo the Force is the only interesting thing about Star Wars. Without the Force, it's basically nothing.
Well, I am the guy that likes the Overmind campaign/Zerg in Sc1 despite it being the weakest in terms of narrative and plotting, so I'm hardly the best judge of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
I'm curious to know what you mean here though. I don't always hold that overt/observable Doylist influence on a work is necessarily a sign of bad writing. Afterall, there are auteur creators (Quentin Tarantino for example) whose works that can still be considered "good" in terms of writing despite them having a recognisable style, theme and influence that is all obviously Doylist in nature. And, there are some works that are much better due to Doylist reasons - like Ridley Scott's version of Blade Runner compared to the theatrical version for example.
I can definitely say that there are a lot of subverted expectations in TLJ though. Sure, some of them are a little forced and Doylist in derivation but they're not entirely out of the realm of possibility on a Watsonian level since it is the Star Wars universe afterall, where magical and crazy happenstance is de riguer.
It is not necessarily a bad thing as you say but there are specific contexts necessary to make it work. Even then, not every Doylist influences are automatically permissible because you opened the gate. To go back to TLJ, things like the remote force ghost or Leia weird space physics are permitted. Things like Oldo(?) ramming her ship and deus ex machina secret cave backdoors are not permitted. That's just god awful writing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
Interesting. Why do you think those things are not permitted?Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Holdo only considers and does the ramming maneuver as a last resort since her tactic of secretly sending away the transport ships (the remnants of the Resistance) whilst keeping the First Order fleet attention on her was failing. She had already taken on the role of sacrificial lamb by sending everyone away on those transports... and they were being targeted and blown apart anyway! She was already dead with that initial gambit and now even that was going to hell in a hand-basket. She had no recourse but to take some action to try and ensure some of those transports got to the planet. Her firing back would've done nothing since the First Order fleet knew the Resistance was in those transports and would've remained focusing fire on those transports.
What's so DEM about a cave backdoor? It is a rebel hold-out afterall, you'd expect them to have contingencies rather than have one mainline exit to their bases in case they get raided. It's potentially foreshadowed by the presence of those native crystal dogs things that then "disappear" because they found a way out and the appearance of "Luke" (up until he's later revealed to be a force projection that is), who would have had to realistically enter that hold-out via a backdoor (if he was indeed a physical presence) since the main gate was shut.
I found TLJ to be a cluster frag. It is full of cliches, it overturns cliches, key plot points would not have happened if not for idiotic behavior (How It Should Have Ended had a field day with this), there is so much uneven pacing, seemingly interesting plot threads go nowhere, major characters are walking stereotypes with little depth, most of the new characters die off to motivate the returning characters, plot threads introduced earlier go nowhere or are violently severed, plot devices and deus ex machinas show up when convenient.
Honestly the only part I found entertaining were the racist nerds online complaining about the diversity quota. I had no problem with the characters including a black dude, an Asian chick and a Latino. What I did have a problem with was that they were bland. Even if the racist nerds got their pipe dream of all-white casting, the characters would still be bland. The obvious lack of care given to the tokens makes the writers look racist.
I am hopeful that the Wrinkle in Time movie will have better written characters, given that women writers are generally better at that than men. Having Mrs. Who quote Justin Bieber was godawful, though. It makes her look vapid, outdated and out of touch with reality. If they had to make her spit word salad I would have preferred her picking up radio stations and stitching together random song lyrics to communicate, or spouting endearing nonsense like "That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo," "Mists of dreams drip along the nascent echo and love no more," or my personal favorite "Do you know what you were when I was young? You were the muck at our feet! We called you the ooze that eats itself. You were pretty at night, you sparkled and you stank! You still stink of it!"
Regarding Holdo:Quote:
Originally Posted by Turalyon
If it's that easy to blow up a star destroyer, why don't anyone ever do that? Why do they even bother with conventional space battles when they can just launch any crappy ship at a hyperspeed and destroy anything? In thousands of years of space warfare, this never happened. It's assumed by the audience that it was just impossible because why else would you not use a strategy that obvious? By allowing Holdo to do this you mess up the entire fake reality that allows for star wars to work the way it works.
Why not do this before the other ships get blow up? Why even consider this as a last resort? Again, if it's possible, what kind of garbage commander would not think of this first?
Why does she has to pilot it? Hello, this is starwars, everyone and their grandma has auto pilot droids. Why not use them?
She uses all the fuel for the last transport ships but still has enough fuel to launch in hyperspeed? Are star destroyers big enough to be hit in hyperspeed?
You can come up with all kind of explanations for this stuff but the real reason why this happened is because the crappy writer wanted you to feel bad about hating Holdo before. He wanted a heroic drama moment. This, at the expense of way too much conceit.
Regarding the cave:
"the robot has analyzed the cave system, there is no way in or out other than the big door. We shall make our last stand!"
*sends crappy anime ships in an attempt to destroy the canon thingy*
*Finn decides to sacrifice himself*
*Asian chick who specifically state that she highly value heroic sacrifices rams Finn in a way that would obviously kill them both*
*both of them magically teleport back in the cave*
*no last stand actually take place*
"well I guess we're screwed guys! Oh wait! The magic foxes have decided at this specific moment to show us this obvious large opening that we were too retarded to see 10 mins before! Brilliant! It will surely bring us out to a blocked exit where our untrained friend with master jedi powers will open the way"
I'mma jus' leave dis here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ
Because it's a wasteful and inefficient tactic. The Resistance at that point in time don't have the luxury of being either of those things.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Umm, because there are people on that ship that want to live? Also, they probably weren't within transport ship range of the planet they ended up being on to make that tactic viable at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
It's a last resort because the original plan was to secretly send the majority of the people away on the transports whilst the majority of the resistance fleet would continue drawing fire from the first order fleet. That the first order were advised by that turncoat guy about the resistance plans to evacuate, made them fire on the transports and ruin the resistances plan. Holdo has no other recourse but to do something to try and save those transports. She can turn around and try to fight the first order conventionally and ineffectively (which is what they think she's doing and so ignore her by continuing to target the transports) whilst the transports are being blown away or do something crazy since she knew she was dead meat either way.
She's the acting leader of the Resistance. She has to be seen as the one flying the ship to make sure the First Order maintain their sights on her rather than the transports secretly trying to escape.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
I don't remember if they indeed didn't have enough fuel for one hyperspeed jump or not, but I suppose it doesn't take much to jump a relatively short distance. The calculations are probably simpler, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Thing is, it has plenty of Watsonian justification though. Really, Holdo is just another resistance member who shows their mettle by putting their life on their line for the cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
I concede my previous statement based on your first point here (I didn't remember whether they said that there was indeed no way out) but your second point here is internally consistent with the first one... It wasn't technically a "way in or out" until Rey made it as one.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Wow, just like how Luke was such a prodigy in the original ones... And yet no cries of Marty Stu there... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Come on Tura, you really question the efficiency? It's very simple economics. Star destroyers have a really high cost both in terms of labour and expenses. Yeah you, as a rebel, can engage them head on like an idiot and possibly win at the cost of half your forces(what always happen in Star-Wars). But then, you're fighting a greater economic power who can easily absorb the cost. In the long run, this would never work. Instead, you could get any piece of junk with a hyperspeed drive (which appears to be something common in SW), put a droid on board and ram star destroyers. It's a lot more cost effective. This is like basic guerrilla fighting 101.Quote:
Because it's a wasteful and inefficient tactic. The Resistance at that point in time don't have the luxury of being either of those things.
step 1. put people on evac shipsQuote:
Umm, because there are people on that ship that want to live? Also, they probably weren't within transport ship range of the planet they ended up being on to make that tactic viable at the time.
step 2. ask droid to ram star destroyer
If Finn has enough fuel to make a round trip to casino planet, pretty sure everyone can make it.
How long did it take Holdo to go in hyperspeed? It was almost instantaneous (minus the added drama). Instead of wasting resources, she could have done has I said above. The enemy wouldn't even have the time to react.Quote:
It's a last resort because the original plan was to secretly send the majority of the people away on the transports whilst the majority of the resistance fleet would continue drawing fire from the first order fleet.
Seems pretty easy to fake anything in this movie. Especially considering their only way to know who's on board is through intentional broadcast which can be easily manipulated.Quote:
She has to be seen as the one flying the ship to make sure the First Order maintain their sights on her rather than the transports secretly trying to escape.
Why not jump directly to salt planet then?Quote:
I don't remember if they indeed didn't have enough fuel for one hyperspeed jump or not, but I suppose it doesn't take much to jump a relatively short distance. The calculations are probably simpler, too.
Luke is the son of the "chosen one"; he naturally has a lot of force magic power. Rey is no one. Luke trained a lot longer with Yoda and Ben than Rey trained with Luke. It was assumed before TLJ that Rey had some kind of background to allow her to do this stuff... But Ryan, being the amazing writer that he is, decided to make her a nobody ¯\_(ツ)_/¯Quote:
Wow, just like how Luke was such a prodigy in the original ones... And yet no cries of Marty Stu there..
Disney is rolling in Blue milk with how many films their squeezing out.
Well, Black Panther was pretty good. Guess that makes him a Disney Prince.Quote:
Disney is rolling in Blue milk with how many films their squeezing out.
Yes, I am questioning it because the immediate context needs to be taken into account. The Resistance in that very moment cannot afford to kamikaze their more comparatively overpowered and numerous enemy when their goal is to actually not fight them/get away. The plan was never to destroy or attack the pursuing First Order fleet. If it was, then I would agree with your assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
There's a difference in that Finn's mission was a single, calculable risk with a big reward if successful (the opportunity to disable the First Orders ability to follow whereever the Resistance fleet jumped) and little consequence if it failed (the Resistance would be just in the same amount of "screwed" as they were before). The mass evac tactic is an "all eggs in a basket" type move where the Resistance would've needed as much advantage as they could get in order for it to succeed since the consequence of failure is much greater and final.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
You're also under the assumption that "ramming the star destroyer" was always a viable tactic that is at the fore-front of every military commander. It was not. The plan was to use the resistance fleet to draw fire and defend the transports in their evac, not to inflict casualties on the First Order no matter the cost and at the expense of leaving the transports vulnerable. Holdo remained in order to bait the First Order in maintaining their sights on the fleet. It was only when the First Order unexpectedly was able to fire on the cloaked transports where the desperate tactic of ramming became the only viable option left. So sure, from your armchair you can judge it as silly for Holdo to not have done the reasonable thing to put it on autopilot and jump into an escape pod there, but it was spur-of-the-moment action to find an immediate solution to stop the First Order from targeting all that was left of the Resistance. Self-preservation was probably the last thing on her mind in that moment.
This train of logic flows from the premise that the ramming tactic was always/should be at the forefront of Holdo's mind/plan. You've failed to establish that this was ever the case, so this justification is moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Have you forgotten the conceit that was established early on that the Resistance fleet is largely in a pickle because the First Order fleet can find them very quickly no matter where they jumped? If they did that as you said, they'd be dead in the water. The idea was to secretly debark to the planet whilst the Resistance fleet would draw the First Order fleet away from said planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
So every single Jedi and Sith has to have a special background then? What about Yoda and Kenobi's heritage? Were they the product of a lineage of supreme force wielders? I think not. Indeed, most Jedi initiates are just force sensitives that Jedi encounter and recruit when they're kids (with permission from their "nobody" parents if need be). Heck, the so called "Chosen One" Anakin was but a "nobody" in the beginning, too (unless you want to go into that blather about him apparently being immaculately conceived through the Force...). Meh, one can handwave it away by saying that Rey's probably just some random mutant with a high midichlorian count or something - like Anakin was. Course, that didn't stop Qui-Gon Jinn from still eventually calling Anakin the "Chosen One" anyway, so maybe Rey's just the next "Chosen One".Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Also, what Kylo says about Rey's heritage need not have to be taken as fact. They can still reveal that Rey is indeed of the clan Kenobi (thanks HISHE!) in the next one as a double subversion afterall. I like to think of it as some nice bit of characterisation on both Kylo and Rey's part. For the former, it can be seen as a manipulation by Kylo to try and twist Rey onto his side and for the latter, it's uplifting to say that Rey's greatness is due all to herself rather than it be a hand-me-down.
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Yes, I am questioning it because the immediate context needs to be taken into account. The Resistance in that very moment cannot afford to kamikaze their more comparatively overpowered and numerous enemy when their goal is to actually not fight them/get away. The plan was never to destroy or attack the pursuing First Order fleet.
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You're also under the assumption that "ramming the star destroyer" was always a viable tactic that is at the fore-front of every military commander. It was not. The plan was to use the resistance fleet to draw fire and defend the transports in their evac, not to inflict casualties on the First Order no matter the cost and at the expense of leaving the transports vulnerable.
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Holdo remained in order to bait the First Order in maintaining their sights on the fleet. It was only when the First Order unexpectedly was able to fire on the cloaked transports where the desperate tactic of ramming became the only viable option left.
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This train of logic flows from the premise that the ramming tactic was always/should be at the forefront of Holdo's mind/plan. You've failed to establish that this was ever the case, so this justification is moot.
The plan was to escape but since they can't just do it without being followed, the option of ramming the star destroyer is as valid as any other. Holding off until you're closer to the planet is more of a gamble and present greater cost than jumping off and kamikaze one of your ship.
This doesn't explain to me why it wasn't valid before. You have 3(?) big ships full of transports and what not. You can't escape without being followed. You can get as far as you can until you run out of fuel OR you can immediately say "fuck it", evac everyone on one of those ship and then ram the star destroyer with an auto pilot. How is that not a valid?
I was talking about Finn in response to your transport range comment. I'm not arguing that Finn's plan made no sense. Though, since we're talking about this, I don't get how he could run away so easily. I don't remember if this was explained in the movie but if Finn can just jump out like that and not get killed, why can't they just send everyone out?Quote:
There's a difference in that Finn's mission was a single, calculable risk with a big reward if successful (the opportunity to disable the First Orders ability to follow whereever the Resistance fleet jumped) and little consequence if it failed (the Resistance would be just in the same amount of "screwed" as they were before). The mass evac tactic is an "all eggs in a basket" type move where the Resistance would've needed as much advantage as they could get in order for it to succeed since the consequence of failure is much greater and final.
Not much of a spur of the moment action if she has the time to argue about it with Leia in front of everyone. Maybe she is in a heroic death mode but anyone else with half a brain could have stopped this non-sense by suggesting using auto-pilot.Quote:
So sure, from your armchair you can judge it as silly for Holdo to not have done the reasonable thing to put it on autopilot and jump into an escape pod there, but it was spur-of-the-moment action to find an immediate solution to stop the First Order from targeting all that was left of the Resistance. Self-preservation was probably the last thing on her mind in that moment.
No, what I'm saying is that Holdo is dragging this unnecessarily by not getting closer to the planet instantaneously.Quote:
Have you forgotten the conceit that was established early on that the Resistance fleet is largely in a pickle because the First Order fleet can find them very quickly no matter where they jumped? If they did that as you said, they'd be dead in the water. The idea was to secretly debark to the planet whilst the Resistance fleet would draw the First Order fleet away from said planet.
Bit of a straw man here. Yoda and Kenobi have years of training. It's not inconceivable for her to have potential. It's inconceivable for her to have the skills of a properly trained jedi without much training herself. Also, bit of an aside but, I hate how everyone is auto-magically an ace pilot in whatever vehicle they jump in.Quote:
So every single Jedi and Sith has to have a special background then? What about Yoda and Kenobi's heritage? Were they the product of a lineage of supreme force wielders? I think not. Indeed, most Jedi initiates are just force sensitives that Jedi encounter and recruit when they're kids (with permission from their "nobody" parents if need be). Heck, the so called "Chosen One" Anakin was but a "nobody" in the beginning, too (unless you want to go into that blather about him apparently being immaculately conceived through the Force...). Meh, one can handwave it away by saying that Rey's probably just some random mutant with a high midichlorian count or something - like Anakin was. Course, that didn't stop Qui-Gon Jinn from still eventually calling Anakin the "Chosen One" anyway, so maybe Rey's just the next "Chosen One".
ACould be. Ryan specifically stated though that she is a nobody. But, he's not writing the last one so maybe JJ will pull out something.Quote:
lso, what Kylo says about Rey's heritage need not have to be taken as fact. They can still reveal that Rey is indeed of the clan Kenobi (thanks HISHE!) in the next one as a double subversion afterall. I like to think of it as some nice bit of characterisation on both Kylo and Rey's part. For the former, it can be seen as a manipulation by Kylo to try and twist Rey onto his side and for the latter, it's uplifting to say that Rey's greatness is due all to herself rather than it be a hand-me-down.
This is one reason Finn confuses me. He seems to have absolutely no idea what he's doing when aboard a TIE fighter, at the Falcon's gun, or in the speeder in TLJ, yet he's a fully trained Stormtrooper. The expanded universe books would portray him as a highly competent soldier, yet in the movies we see a bumbling fool who gets by more on luck than anything. On the other hand, the combat systems I listed above are widely varied and would take some time to get used to, portraying some measure of realism in his reactions.Quote:
Also, bit of an aside but, I hate how everyone is auto-magically an ace pilot in whatever vehicle they jump in.
While Finn also has some form of character development over the course of the story (unlike most other characters), it's just too nice and neat how he "snaps out" of Imperial indoctrination. Why is it that he froze up in the opening fight in TFA, yet never shows any similar freezing in subsequent battles? It would have been fascinating to see him catch himself reacting according to Stormtrooper programming and reassess his views, to struggle with his instincts.
From the things I've been hearing about TLJ, I'm starting to get really sad about Finn. I really liked him in the Force Awakens. True story: I actually didn't have a favorite character in Star Wars until Finn. I kinda liked Grand Moff Tarkin, but that's only because he's played by an older actor, and I like older actors. Finn was so cool in TFA, and I was really hoping that him and Rey would be matched. They're cute, imo.
I don't know where people are getting the "Luke is a prodigy" stuff as a defense for Rey from, a better example would be Anakin the 9 year old jesus in Episode 1, Luke is a horrible defense for Rey as he was pretty mediocre force wise for the vast majority of the series, his only real feat in Episode IV was changing the trajectory of a torpedo that was already heading towards a similar location.
Not to mention the already talked about fact that Rey is a nobody with no genetic ties to previous powerful force users, nor did she have even the tiny bit of training that Luke did with Obi Wan. (and later with Yoda)
Before I keep defending TLJ, I must say that I don't find the film WITHOUT major fault. The whole premise of the film is actually absurd in it's core concept, which I'm surprised wasn't actually covered in the HISHE. The initial premise is that the Resistance cannot outrun the First Order because they'll be able to quickly follow them and the Resistance fleet is running out of fuel. It's drilled into our minds that the Resistance has no mobility whatsoever... but the First Order have no such restrictions themselves. It's a wonder why the First Order bother to perform a "chase" and drag it out so long (even if we're supposed to think they were just wanting to toy with them in the beginning) when they don't really have to. There's nothing stopping the First Order from just warping right on top of the Resistance fleet and blowing them to smithereens in the very first minutes into the film. I was actually waiting for this to be addressed the whole time throughout the film but it never did. Anyways, onward...
The aim is also to lose as few ships as possible since it potentially increases their chance of survival. The remaining fleet still has to be used as a shield and a rear-guard defensive action for the transports, so they can't afford to lose too many before they get within range of the planet.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
It's possible that if they ever did consider ramming as an effective technique, only the resistance flagship itself would've been of considerable size to withstand enough damage to even begin doing that maneuver and do damage to the massive first order flagship. All the other ships would've been picked off and destroyed easily before they could turn around. Obviously, they wouldn't have wanted to sacrifice their flagship too early.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Oh, I'm guessing they didn't want to send the transports out to early since the transports would be spending more time out being vulnerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Good question. I'm assuming the ship Finn used was smaller than a transport and could slip away easily. It's small size was deemed insignificant for the First Order to worry about I suppose. In saying that though, I'm kinda surprised they didn't just stagger release those transports and/or use smaller ships instead to evacuate.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
The spur of the moment action is in regard to the exact moment where she decided to ram the First Order ship. She didn't state to Leia and everyone that she was specifically staying onboard just to ram the First Order flagship. Yes, it is silly that she'd stay on board just to keep flying the ship on its present course but like I said, maybe she'd have to stay onboard to keep up the pretense and to goad the First Order into maintaining fire on the main Resistance fleet. The auto-pilot thing is an easy excuse to back into but if such auto-pilots exist to be able to turn a flagship around and initiate a precise lightspeed ramming action then you'd have to question why do SW spaceships even need to have manual controls or pilots at all. But no, we don't see people complaining about that, do we? ;):rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Because otherwise it would draw the First Orders attention that they're planning to evacuate to the planet. The fleet has to crawl on by to avoid suspicion that they're planning to evacuate to the planet. If they just suddenly jumped to within distance of the planet, the First Order would know that something would be going on because of the conceit that the First Order will know where they've jumped to.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Not talking about Yoda and Kenobi in their prime. We don't know if they had awesome powers when they were young before they were noticed by a Jedi recruiter. I'd imagine they would've displayed some prodigious ability for a Jedi to eventually recruit them afterall. That "magical ace-pilot" ability is but one way this Force potential is manifested - as is shown in Anakin and Lukes case.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwich_bird
Also, the apparent powers of Force sensitive are not are not related to actual training/skills of a Jedi but to the innate ability of the Force sensitive to use the Force at a whim. Think of Force sensitives as like the Protoss being innate psionic individuals. Protoss can perform telekinetic abilities and cast psi storms without training but are much better at focusing and utilising such powers with training. This is the case with Rey - she has raw ability that can be used, but it hasn't fully been honed and trained. The only skill of a properly trained Jedi that she displayed was the mind trick on Daniel Craig's stormtrooper - but given that she's been a survivalist her whole life and had to learn things quickly (cos otherwise she wouldn't even be here), one can use that to conceivably handwave that away by saying she learnt that from all the mind-probing that Kylo was doing on her prior to that display of hers.
If you're still not convinced then maybe we could just fallback on her being the "chosen one" of this generation since "why not?" It's apparently a thing in that universe afterall.
Luke was able to change the direction of those torpedoes 90 degrees into that exhaust port! That's pretty amazing if you ask me...Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo
Luke was able to go toe-to-toe with a trained and experienced Sith Lord without much in the way of training, too. Sure, we see some training montages for Luke, but he only spent at most a few weeks (if not just days) training before he scarpered off. The "mediocrity" was more to do with production values and limitations at the time than anything else.
I covered this previously. All Jedi (even the notable masters like Yoda and Kenobi) come from "nobodies" since they're supposed to be celibate (and are for the vast majority) and that they recruit random children that have force capabilities. The complaint about Rey being so good without training is due simple because of the fact she was busy trying to stay alive on her own for most of her life after being abandoned. Unlike Luke, who was a simple kid working and living a dull life on the farm, Rey had to learn to be independent in order to survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo