Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
It wasn't my idea. I think it was submitted by VoK. I deliberately removed who said what to distance ourselves from what we say, and so approach things more objectively.
The Mengsk-Kerrigan relationship is essential. It shaped the very plot that is sc2.
I somewhat disagree, in that I would include Raynor. Raynor is basically the MC of Starcraft, given that he appears in all mission sets of both SC and BW. However, given the large scope of Starcraft, it's a bit of a fallacy to focus too much one one character. It's a 3rd person omniscient story. But as SC and BW are, Raynor-Kerrigan-Mengsk is the primary driving triangle of the Terran/Zerg side of things. They all support each other as characters.
Bah, I'm at school now. I'll answer more when I have more time.
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Kerrigan killing Mengsk's father happened in the EU after Sc1 came out to "explain" why Mengsk left her on Tarsonis in New Gettysburg. It's additive retroactive continuity and was never remotely suggested at in the Sc1 manual's Terran History beyond saying that Ghosts were sent to assasinate Angus Mengsk. To outright say it was definitely Kerrigan who killed Angus Mengsk back then would've been judged as nothing but "wild mass guessing" at the time.
Well yes because the SC1 manual seemed only to tell the story of what happened up to RIGHT before SC1 begins. You're right in that we never knew who the 3 ghosts were from the manual alone and all that. Of course if we used only the manual, then you could give other reasons for why Mengsk left her at New Gettysburg.
Having said that though, many had argued that it was more than just leaving her there: that Mengsk left others who began to question him (especially after Antiga Prime) to make an example of them, and for all the others to follow him without question.
If that's the case, then we go to HotS, it'd justify those who felt Kerrigan thought the Dominion military is composed of nothing but mindless automatons.
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
It wasn't my idea. I think it was submitted by VoK. I deliberately removed who said what to distance ourselves from what we say, and so approach things more objectively.
Ha, so we were going on about an idea that's not even ours. Lol. Anyway, what do you think of VoK's (or whoever's it was) idea? To me it just seems wrong, and I don't see how we could get a story out of it.
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
I agree on the BW Kerrigan beat. Which makes me think she already had her moment of vengeance back then.
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
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Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Of course if we used only the manual, then you could give other reasons for why Mengsk left her at New Gettysburg.
That there could be multiple justified reasons is what I loved about it. It was a mini-mystery for the ages (up until they gave the definitive reason in a book later on that is) but one that was not so important that it needed resolution or was plot-breaking in any major way. Tiny things like that make it feel real because reality is like that, sometimes you just don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ragnarok
Having said that though, many had argued that it was more than just leaving her there: that Mengsk left others who began to question him (especially after Antiga Prime) to make an example of them, and for all the others to follow him without question.
Even this isn't a fool-proof answer since Mengsk keeps Raynor around in his inner circle right up until the end despite him mouthing off on Mengsk several times throughout Rebel Yell. If he really couldn't brook anyone questioning him, Raynor would've been the first to go. This begs the question of whether Mengsk is really that oblivious to those around him since on one hand, he's supposed to be so sensitive to treachery that he will go on to kill someone who exhibits the slightest hint of it (Kerrigan) but on the other, he's so dumb that he doesn't do anything against someone more openly resistant against him (Raynor) and blind that he can pretend or assume to still be friends with that person after what he did. Then again, one could say Mengsk probably manipulated the situation so that he left Kerrigan down on New Gettysburg expressly in order to bait Raynor into attacking him, so that Mengsk would then have a "defensible" reason to kill Raynor and get rid of them both. It's somewhat unfortunate that BW then seems to take the "Mengsk is stupid" path...
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
I agree on the BW Kerrigan beat. Which makes me think she already had her moment of vengeance back then.
Possibly. Regardless I think she felt humiliating Mengsk wasn't enough, he had to actually die. It really makes you wonder, if the hybrid breeding program at Skygeirr actually produced enough, and Duran didn't backstab Mengsk, would he really have enough to avenge his defeat from BW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalyon
Even this isn't a fool-proof answer since Mengsk keeps Raynor around in his inner circle right up until the end despite him mouthing off on Mengsk several times throughout Rebel Yell. If he really couldn't brook anyone questioning him, Raynor would've been the first to go. This begs the question of whether Mengsk is really that oblivious to those around him since on one hand, he's supposed to be so sensitive to treachery that he will go on to kill someone who exhibits the slightest hint of it (Kerrigan) but on the other, he's so dumb that he doesn't do anything against someone more openly resistant against him (Raynor) and blind that he can pretend or assume to still be friends with that person after what he did. Then again, one could say Mengsk probably manipulated the situation so that he left Kerrigan down on New Gettysburg expressly in order to bait Raynor into attacking him, so that Mengsk would then have a "defensible" reason to kill Raynor and get rid of them both. It's somewhat unfortunate that BW then seems to take the "Mengsk is stupid" path...
He was though. Once he became emperor, he lost contact with reality.
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
Thing is, she kept him alive. I find nothing in SC2 that calls her to boot up her vengeance pursuit.
That and murdering people along the way is a contradiction to why she hates Mengsk in SC/BW. In sc2 she actually does what Mengsk had done to achieve his goals back in SC. This beat in sc2 actually threw me off.
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
Thing is, she kept him alive. I find nothing in SC2 that calls her to boot up her vengeance pursuit.
That and murdering people along the way is a contradiction to why she hates Mengsk in SC/BW.
Umm... I think you may have forgotten that she watches Mengsk announce to the sector that he has captured and executed Raynor. You know, the guy that kind of deinfested and "rescued" her in WoL? :p
Sure, Raynor's "death" was a blatant contrivance to move the plot of HotS forward and that absolutely no player would ever believe that such a thing would happen, let alone off-screen, but that fact(oid) would've been more than enough to motivate Kerrigan for a more bloodier revenge than normal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
In sc2 she actually does what Mengsk had done to achieve his goals back in SC. This beat in sc2 actually threw me off.
Sssshhhhh, you're supposed to concentrate on the fact that she's a girl that has "feelings" now and cares for some people, like Raynor and those civilians she graciously took her time to evacuate at her own potential expense and risk (when she attacked Korhal)... unlike Mengsk, who apparently doesn't care for anyone, is the devil in comparison to her and therefore must die. :rolleyes:
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GnaReffotsirk
Thing is, she kept him alive. I find nothing in SC2 that calls her to boot up her vengeance pursuit.
That and murdering people along the way is a contradiction to why she hates Mengsk in SC/BW. In sc2 she actually does what Mengsk had done to achieve his goals back in SC. This beat in sc2 actually threw me off.
Yes well let's just say once the hatred levels go way too high, it tends to mess around with rationality.
Re: Exercise 01: Establishing the Status Quo
