Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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So uh, would you like the spend the rest of your natural life in a war machine...
that cannot perform any other function then kill people?
What does having a head or not have to do with whether I'm going to live for the rest of my life in a war machine or not?
Second of all, no one designs a machine with a head sticking out, it's just asking to get shot. A bad design is a bad design, a war machine is designed to be a war machine, not a half war machine with a personable face attached to it.
Third, only idiots like the Dark Templar don't know how to design a proper machine where you just I don't know, sit in it? Without having to fuse your damn soul as part of the machine?
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
What does having a head or not have to do with whether I'm going to live for the rest of my life in a war machine or not?
Second of all, no one designs a machine with a head sticking out, it's just asking to get shot. A bad design is a bad design, a war machine is designed to be a war machine, not a half war machine with a personable face attached to it.
Third, only idiots like the Dark Templar don't know how to design a proper machine where you just I don't know, sit in it? Without having to fuse your damn soul as part of the machine?
Ok, lets say fusion of a soul shadow essence into a machine is a reversible process. Just read that to yourself. Doesn't sound quite right. Even then, their is no way it is a easily reversible process. Certainly harder then getting into a marine suit right? (which is quite hard apparently). So if Im going to be spending time in a war machine for...months, if not years...Hands would help. A lot.
Even if the face thing isn't 100% practical in war, you have to remember, the protoss are not zerg. They aren't all about 100% efficiency. The dark templars live a highly individualistic and tribalistic warrior culture. Look at the samurai, who dispite being basically the most skilled swordsman in japan, or the world for that matter, wore unpractical armor, filled with heavy metal decorum.
The dark templar wouldn't give up their individuality, their face, and basically their ability to feel like a protoss...to save material, because just because they have a face doesnt mean that shooting it off is anything beyond cosmetic damage.
That is, assuming fusion of your fucking soul is a reversible process.
And I was under the impression that the dark templars who became stalkers were crippled, like the dragoons. \
Plus
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stalkers have been credited with many fantastic powers in recent conflicts. nevertheless the only one that has been witnessed consistently is the ability to instantly teleport or 'blink' from one spot to another
I doubt these powers would be accessible if they simple sat in them, or remotely controlled them.
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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Ok, lets say fusion of a soul shadow essence into a machine is a reversible process. Just read that to yourself. Doesn't sound quite right. Even then, their is no way it is a easily reversible process. Certainly harder then getting into a marine suit right? (which is quite hard apparently). So if Im going to be spending time in a war machine for...months, if not years...Hands would help. A lot.
Even if the face thing isn't 100% practical in war, you have to remember, the protoss are not zerg. They aren't all about 100% efficiency. The dark templars live a highly individualistic and tribalistic warrior culture. Look at the samurai, who dispite being basically the most skilled swordsman in japan, or the world for that matter, wore unpractical armor, filled with heavy metal decorum.
The dark templar wouldn't give up their individuality, their face, and basically their ability to feel like a protoss...to save material, because just because they have a face doesnt mean that shooting it off is anything beyond cosmetic damage.
That is, assuming fusion of your fucking soul is a reversible process.
And I was under the impression that the dark templars who became stalkers were crippled, like the dragoons.
Stalkers don't have hands, so I don't know why you're saying "hands would help a lot."
I also never said that it was a reversible process, don't know why you brought that up.
Third, getting into a marine suit is automated, and for the non-automated method with practice it can be done within a minute.
And no, they aren't crippled, they choose to fuse their souls into Stalkers.
Which brings me to the point that the DT are idiots, who can't design anything right. Basically, you agreed with me saying they're not all about efficiency. So basically, your post was a waste of space, like always. Just goes to show you're a masochist who likes to argue for the sake of it.
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I doubt these powers would be accessible if they simple sat in them, or remotely controlled them.
Says the guy who in the "Ghost with psi blade" thread says "lore can describe anything!!!11."
Blizzard can make the lore anything they want it to be, they just chose to do it in a non-efficient "attempt at being unique" way. That's all there is to it.
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Stalkers don't have hands, so I don't know why you're saying "hands would help a lot."
The pincer things which you scoffed at earlier are what I was referring to as hands.
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I also never said that it was a reversible process, don't know why you brought that up.
lolwat? So you honestly think any sentient race with any kind of individualistic mindset...would spend the rest of their unnatural lives in a machine...that doesn't even have a face? lol.
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And no, they aren't crippled, they choose to fuse their souls into Stalkers.
proof plz?
Even if their not cripple, I doubt they could utilize their psionic powers to their fullest extent within a machine.
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Which brings me to the point that the DT are idiots, who can't design anything right. Basically, you agreed with me saying they're not all about efficiency. So basically, your post was a waste of space, like always. Just goes to show you're a masochist who likes to argue for the sake of it.
wut?
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Honestly, does no one else care about the fact that in war, worrying about having a face is not your top priority? Maybe you should worry about not having a face sticking outside of a machine for that Terrible Terrible Headshot that you know is coming.
your point isn't "stalkers are inefficient", your point was that having a face was a non-priority for the darktemplars. Your point was that how it doesnt make SENSE for a stalker to have a head
Which their really is. In fact it makes perfect sense why they have a head, any sane individual would probably want to retain some kind of racial identity after meging your soul with a machine.
And if protoss can design a stalker, which moves incredibly fluidly for a mechanical construct, the extra materials needed to make a head isn't that big of a deal, especially when it means that much to the user.
The protoss never exhibited a "do anything to win philosophy". It would have no sense to give them a 100% totally efficient unit, as would make sense in zerg or even terran culture. Remember, zealots are fucking colored in BRIGHT GOLD. Obviously, it makes 0 sense to make your troops armor in eye-bleeding gold, but zealots do it anyway.
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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The pincer things which you scoffed at earlier are what I was referring to as hands.
I scoffed at the "hands?" I hardly even made any mention of them, maybe you should learn how to read posts properly.
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lolwat? So you honestly think any sentient race with any kind of individualistic mindset...would spend the rest of their unnatural lives in a machine...that doesn't even have a face? lol.
By your post, you make it sound that reversing the fusion process is impossible, so what do you want me to say? Yes? Are you implying that it's irreversible or not? I assume it's not reversible. Goes to show yet again you can make an argument out of nothing, I don't even know what you're getting at here.
Where's your proof that they're crippled?
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Even if their not cripple, I doubt they could utilize their psionic powers to their fullest extent within a machine.
Oh, and I'm not 100% sure, but I thought you said this in the last thread.
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But that would be entirely pointless. Lore is malleable, and you'll always see it your way. I can't prove how ghosts shouldn't use psi-blades in SC because SC is a fictional universe.
Lore is a tool to develop a game. I could pull something right out of my ass about how thors are viable
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your point isn't "stalkers are inefficient", your point was that having a face was a non-priority for the darktemplars. Your point was that how it doesnt make SENSE for a stalker to have a head
Which their really is. In fact it makes perfect sense why they have a head, any sane individual would probably want to retain some kind of racial identity after meging your soul with a machine.
And if protoss can design a stalker, which moves incredibly fluidly for a mechanical construct, the extra materials needed to make a head isn't that big of a deal, especially when it means that much to the user.
You're a moron, you're telling me what my point is and isn't? Yes, my point is that the DT are idiots. If you know your math, put 2 and 2 together. Their top priority is things like "keeping individualism intact" and where does that lead us? To a bad design.
Last but not least, arguing with you is completely pointless, you think you know things about realism, but in actuality you don't know shit about realism and how these things should apply to games. Just look at the last thread where you COMPLETELY ignore Lupino's post about reverse engineering.
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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By your post, you make it sound that reversing the fusion process is impossible, so what do you want me to say? Yes? Are you implying that it's irreversible or not? I assume it's not reversible. Goes to show yet again you can make an argument out of nothing, I don't even know what you're getting at here.
An argument out of nothing? lolwut? So, you yourself admit that the process is not reversible, then say that the DT are morons for not wanting to...
spend eternity as a faceless machine.
ok.
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Where's your proof that they're crippled?
By assuming what makes sense naturally as opposed to what naturally makes less sense?
like if your given between choseing option a and option b without any other material, but option b sounds more stupid, you would choose option a right?
Your the one that has to provide proof that the naturally sounding stupid one is correct.
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You're a moron, you're telling me what my point is and isn't? Yes, my point is that the DT are idiots. If you know your math, put 2 and 2 together. Their top priority is things like "keeping individualism intact" and where does that lead us? To a bad design.
your point switched to being DT are idiots two posts ago. According you your OP, if you actually read what you wrote, you say that stalkers dont make sense. Which they clearly do.
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Last but not least, arguing with you is completely pointless, you think you know things about realism, but in actuality you don't know shit about realism and how these things should apply to games. Just look at the last thread where you COMPLETELY ignore Lupino's post about reverse engineering.
so relevent right? Insult when, well..its not even that your argument makes no sense, you have no argument. Wtf your argument?
a)What dark templars are doing completely make sense according to in game lore, and logic.
b)despite that, their still morons for not being efficient.
c)???
so what? grats dark templars aren't being efficient. no shit. so what? Their actions still make sense.
btw I read this the other day, metzen supporting my views about ghosts
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
First off - chill with the flaming comments folks.
Let's look at the concept art & the current in-game model.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...s_Concepts.jpg
http://starcraft2.com/images/artwork/ss6-hires.jpg
http://starcraft2.com/images/artwork/ss97-hires.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ERREDESIGN.jpg
The original concept art is clearly showing the real head of a DT, and if you look at the details on the head, you can see the scale-like impressions on the head that aren't on the other areas. For referemce you can compare them to the DT on the left of the image of the two DTs. I had always assumed from these images that the head was the actual head of the DT that had sacrified itself to be joined into the Stalker. As far as the Stalker overall being mechanical, or cybernetic, I believe that the nerve cords may be used as a conduit to assist in the transmission and focusing of the Dark Templar's essence, but that's entirely speculation. I don't think that we really know enough about the inner workings of the machine to truely determine which is true.
As we know - the Dark Templar are all about individuality. It's the reason they're not a part of the Khala, and it also describes their less uniform appearance as compared to the Zealots. This should also translate into the Stalker's not looking like they're just coming off of an assembly line - they're keeping the key aspects of what made them unique in life into their mechanical afterlife in the form of the feature that everyone uses to identify one another at a glance - their face. This means that the Stalkers would still be able to be recognized by the living Dark Templar, and perhaps the other Stalkers. This more than anything is the reason that I really, really liked the design including the face of the Dark Templar - it allows them to continue to operate within the structure of the Dark Templar's society, and not just be eternally confined into a war machine, like the Dragoons.
As for the folks bawww-ing about the head making an easy kill target, if (as some people suggest due to the wording of the lore) that only the DT's Shadow Essence is embued into the Stalker, shooting the Stalker in the face wouldn't make any difference, because it's no longer a critical system. It's like putting your mummified face onto the hood of a car that's powered by your soul, and suggesting that shooting the face will kill power to the car. In addition to that, the Protoss still have shields, which is at LEAST what the helmet-less Zealots, or the helmeted Marines have to protect themselves - except that they can teleport. Suffice to say, it's not a major design flaw, even if they are organically fused into the Stalker chassis. If you want something with heavy, fully contained Protoss - there's the Immortals. The Stalkers are as much about the culture of who they're built by as the fact that they're built for battle as Scout / light assault units, they're not just sitting around waiting for a headshot.
X :cool:
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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An argument out of nothing? lolwut? So, you yourself admit that the process is not reversible, then say that the DT are morons for not wanting to...
spend eternity as a faceless machine.
ok.
Wtf are you even talking about? I said they're morons for making bad designs, that's all I've said, you however are putting words in my mouth.
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By assuming what makes sense naturally as opposed to what naturally makes less sense?
like if your given between choseing option a and option b without any other material, but option b sounds more stupid, you would choose option a right?
Your the one that has to provide proof that the naturally sounding stupid one is correct.
Wow, you're a damn hypocrite. You go on to say the Protoss are not efficient because that's the way they are, and now you're talking about sense? Organize your argument before even trying, it's sad that it takes you half an hour to even post something as weak as this shit.
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your point switched to being DT are idiots two posts ago. According you your OP, if you actually read what you wrote, you say that stalkers dont make sense. Which they clearly do.
And yet again to no surprise you ignore what I said. I talk from realism point of view if you hadn't gotten that through your thick ass skull yet. Prioritizing personal features is stupid in the midst of war, which leads us to the conclusion that since they prioritize features over good designs, they're morons. Maybe it makes sense to them, (god knows why they can't just add a face after the war is over) but it certainly doesn't make sense from any efficient point of view. Which again, leads us to conclude that they're bad at design.
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so relevent right? Insult when, well..its not even that your argument makes no sense, you have no argument. Wtf your argument?
a)What dark templars are doing completely make sense according to in game lore, and logic.
b)despite that, their still morons for not being efficient.
c)???
so what? grats dark templars aren't being efficient. no shit. so what? Their actions still make sense.
I think I feel more pain that DS does when he talks to archer.
I'll break it down so that you can comprehend. The Protoss are idiots for making bad designs, that is my point. Are you going to try to tell me again that that's not my point? Here I'll reiterate for the millionth time, they prioritize "individualism" over efficiency, meaning it leads to bad design. if you can't see the fucking link between the 2, then I'm just going to drop this conversation.
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btw I read this the other day, metzen supporting my views about ghosts
Oh yes, let's post things without links, that's a sure way to convince anyone.
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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Originally Posted by
Pandonetho
Wtf are you even talking about? I said they're morons for making bad designs, that's all I've said, you however are putting words in my mouth.
Wow, you're a damn hypocrite. You go on to say the Protoss are not efficient because that's the way they are, and now you're talking about sense? Organize your argument before even trying, it's sad that it takes you half an hour to even post something as weak as this shit.
And yet again to no surprise you ignore what I said. I talk from realism point of view if you hadn't gotten that through your thick ass skull yet. Prioritizing personal features is stupid in the midst of war, which leads us to the conclusion that since they prioritize features over good designs, they're morons. Maybe it makes sense to them, (god knows why they can't just add a face after the war is over) but it certainly doesn't make sense from any efficient point of view. Which again, leads us to conclude that they're bad at design.
I think I feel more pain that DS does when he talks to archer.
I'll break it down so that you can comprehend. The Protoss are idiots for making bad designs, that is my point. Are you going to try to tell me again that that's not my point? Here I'll reiterate for the millionth time, they prioritize "individualism" over efficiency, meaning it leads to bad design. if you can't see the fucking link between the 2, then I'm just going to drop this conversation.
Oh yes, let's post things without links, that's a sure way to convince anyone.
I was under the impression that you thought something should change. Normal people dont get so worked up about how a non-existent alien race is being inefficient in a video game. Especially when it actually makes perfect sense according to lore.
Its not even THAT inefficent. All their doing is adding a cosmetic moving head (maybe with a "camera") with onto their already super-complex robot. We could probably get something that moves like that head today for 10000 dollars.
ok bro I accept your viewpoint that the protoss are stupid heads.
...?
btw it takes me a half hour to right the posts because I dont sit their spamming refresh :/
Re: Protoss Stalkers, Organic or Machine?
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I was under the impression that you thought something should change. Normal people dont get so worked up about how a non-existent alien race is being inefficient in a video game. Especially when it actually makes perfect sense according to lore.
I don't get worked up about aliens. I get worked up when I'm talking to brick walls.
You still don't get it do you? It makes perfect sense for the PROTOSS to prioritize individualism over efficiency, it doesn't make sense from any realistic point of view to do this.
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ok bro I accept your viewpoint that the protoss are stupid heads.
Accept? You were agreeing with me from your first post that they aren't efficient. You just like to argue for no reason.
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btw it takes me a half hour to right the posts because I dont sit their spamming refresh :/
Yeah, when your profile says "replying to thread" when I looked in hopes that you would realize how pointless your arguments are and give up, and then 30 minutes later it still said "replying to thread" I don't need to spam refresh to do the math.
Glad this didn't have to turn into a 5 million post debate, have a good day.
